Village of Babylon prohibits sale of guns & ammo

[spat]

If the area is not zoned for them, I am okay with this.

Again, what Right is removed by not allowing a gun store in the town square? Can you point out the exact wording of the 2A that this violates?

You look at government backwards.

What authority does the government have to ban them ? Where does that derive from ?


But, even if you accept that zoning law has some constitutional basis, the right to acquire arms is necessary to keep and bear them.

You would not say that you can ban pens or bibles without running afoul of the 1st ammendment.

Could a town pass a zoning law that says "no book stores anywhere" ? Or how about "books stores are OK, but only approved books" ?

And even if you decide that the zoning is legitimate, it can't amount to an effective ban. Even if you say "no gun stores next to the school", you can't just extend that to cover the entire town, because then that's a ban.

 

[Celt]

Is this a violation of the 2A? if so, how? Discuss...

Restricting access to the tools needed in order to be a well regulated part of the militia (unorganized militia).

 

[GOPerfect]

Zoning in general is bullshit, but there is a major difference between zoning and outright forbidding something.

You never answered whether you think it would be a violation of the 1A for a town to outlaw houses of worship in city limits.


But, to specifically address your question, the ability to acquire guns is necessary to be able to keep and bear them.

Imagine a town in 1800 America that said "we're not infringing on freedom of the press, we're just outlawing the sale of ink".

I did answer your question.

It is not the year 1800. No Rights are violated with this ordnance.

This is a big reason why the vast majority of 2A cases in the courts are lost, these outraged are based upon feelings and emotions.

There have been many court cases affirming this type of town ordnance.

 

[Brawny71]

I did answer your question.

It is not the year 1800. No Rights are violated with this ordnance.

This is a big reason why the vast majority of 2A cases in the courts are lost, these outraged are based upon feelings and emotions.

There have been many court cases affirming this type of town ordnance.

The rights of the already established businesses within the zone were violated I think. And their insurance, if grandfathered, Will take yet another jump.

 

[Cooolone]

So... Question? Are businesses protected under the 2nd as well as the "People"? Are businesses People? Are those businesses and their activities which are 2A oriented protected? If so, then what encumbrances may a municipality out in place that would restrict it? And why would it be permissible and not violate constitutional Rights?

As I've said... Bruen is clear! Why is this ignored (conveniently)? Like with the CCIA... No law enacted or otherwise which is unconstitutional is not law! But this whacky state is through the looking glass, has been and will be!

How does NY get to cry about the bug bad wolf that never comes! How other states, including those in majority, now 29 of them, do NOT have problems the State prescribed would happen should they relax their restrictions and controls!

 

[Brawny71]

So... Question? Are businesses protected under the 2nd as well as the "People"? Are businesses People? Are those businesses and their activities which are 2A oriented protected? If so, then what encumbrances may a municipality out in place that would restrict it? And why would it be permissible and not violate constitutional Rights?

As I've said... Bruen is clear! Why is this ignored (conveniently)? Like with the CCIA... No law enacted or otherwise which is unconstitutional is not law! But this whacky state is through the looking glass, has been and will be!

How does NY get to cry about the bug bad wolf that never comes! How other states, including those in majority, now 29 of them, do NOT have problems the State prescribed would happen should they relax their restrictions and controls!

Not directly. But there are interpretations which find that restricting or blocking access and availability is a method of restricting the individual resources right. Like over taxing, over licensing, unclear legislation…..

 

[spat]

I did answer your question.

It is not the year 1800. No Rights are violated with this ordnance.

This is a big reason why the vast majority of 2A cases in the courts are lost, these outraged are based upon feelings and emotions.

There have been many court cases affirming this type of town ordnance.

So, you think they could outlaw all churches in the town too ?

Recent case law about the covid restrictions would seem to disagree.

 

[GOPerfect]

So, you think they could outlaw all churches in the town too ?

Recent case law about the covid restrictions would seem to disagree.

Possibly. They are not banning all stores in the town, only in the village.

 

[spat]

Possibly. They are not banning all stores in the town, only in the village.

Why should that be a power the village government has ?

 

[GOPerfect]

Why should that be a power the village government has ?

Village/town elected are responsible for zoning laws.

 

[spat]

Village/town elected are responsible for zoning laws.

That doesn't explain what gives them the right to implement them at all.

What gives a village the authority to implement zoning regulations at all ?

 

[GOPerfect]

That doesn't explain what gives them the right to implement them at all.

What gives a village the authority to implement zoning regulations at all ?

This is what government does.

 

[spat]

This is what government does.

Where does that authority derive from ?

The constitution gives the federal government specific powers. They have grabbed all manner of additional ones.

But, *why* do you think a couple of your neighbors should be able to tell you that you can't sell some guns ?

Because that's all a government is, is your neighbors.

 

[GOPerfect]

Where does that authority derive from ?

The constitution gives the federal government specific powers. They have grabbed all manner of additional ones.

But, *why* do you think a couple of your neighbors should be able to tell you that you can't sell some guns ?

Because that's all a government is, is your neighbors.

Okay. The people elect other people to run towns, cities, villages, counties, states and the Federal government. A local, State or Federal government is tasked with certain duties; zoning laws fall into that.

 

[spat]

Okay. The people elect other people to run towns, cities, villages, counties, states and the Federal government. A local, State or Federal government is tasked with certain duties; zoning laws fall into that.

So a government can do anything as long as 51% of the people agree with it ?

The other 49% just need to take whatever the 51% says ?

Or are there fundamental limits ?


And when exactly did people grant the government the zoning power ?

Seems most of that stuff is more like 30% of the people vote for it, and the other 70% don't object strongly enough to stop it.

 

[GOPerfect]

So a government can do anything as long as 51% of the people agree with it ?

The other 49% just need to take whatever the 51% says ?

Or are there fundamental limits ?


And when exactly did people grant the government the zoning power ?

Seems most of that stuff is more like 30% of the people vote for it, and the other 70% don't object strongly enough to stop it.

Yep, and that is their problem.

 

[GOPerfect]

So a government can do anything as long as 51% of the people agree with it ?

The other 49% just need to take whatever the 51% says ?

Or are there fundamental limits ?


And when exactly did people grant the government the zoning power ?

Seems most of that stuff is more like 30% of the people vote for it, and the other 70% don't object strongly enough to stop it.

1904 was the first offical Zoning law.

As for Constitutionality, ruled in 1926....

Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co. was a 1926 US Supreme Court case that established the constitutionality of zoning ordinances. The case was a landmark in the development of land use planning in the United States

 

[spat]

1904 was the first offical Zoning law.

As for Constitutionality, ruled in 1926....

Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co. was a 1926 US Supreme Court case that established the constitutionality of zoning ordinances. The case was a landmark in the development of land use planning in the United States

Yep.

One of the most wrongly decided cases in SCOTUS history.

 

[spat]

Yep, and that is their problem.

So, nothing wrong with slavery then ?

After all, it was widely supported for most of history.

 

[Criticalt]

I did answer your question.

It is not the year 1800. No Rights are violated with this ordnance.

This is a big reason why the vast majority of 2A cases in the courts are lost, these outraged are based upon feelings and emotions.

There have been many court cases affirming this type of town ordnance.

How about the local gun shop owner who wants to help support his LOCAL area?
In order to own firearms, someone must be allowed to sell firearms in the same area the firearms are owned.
How about the less fortunate people who cannot travel 75 miles to buy their firearms snd ammo?
Just spitballing here.

 

[Robin]

They should make it a "Dry" town as well, Hic, and while they are at it, no more smut mag's or hunting/gun periodical's to be offered for sale within the town limits. And while they are at it, no deodorant is to be sold.
Hey this shit is fun, this is what government does, relieve the ignorant Prole from the burden of decision making for themselves! Hell, I could be a govnoor!
Robin, Czar

 

[Criticalt]

They should make it a "Dry" town as well, Hic, and while they are at it, no more smut mag's or hunting/gun periodical's to be offered for sale within the town limits. And while they are at it, no deodorant is to be sold.
Hey this shit is fun, this is what government does, relieve the ignorant Prole from the burden of decision making for themselves! Hell, I could be a govnoor!
Robin, Czar

Every gun owner in that area should do ALL of their shopping out of town.
Due to NYS shenanigans, my wife and I do 95% of our purchasing in PA.
The two areas closest to us are Jamestown NY and Warren PA, we are literally right in the middle, so the choice is easy.
Warren is a very nice little town with every amenity we need.

 

[fresch]

I was going to say can I put my porn shop in?

 

[Brawny71]

Every gun owner in that area should do ALL of their shopping out of town.
Due to NYS shenanigans, my wife and I do 95% of our purchasing in PA.
The two areas closest to us are Jamestown NY and Warren PA, we are literally right in the middle, so the choice is easy.
Warren is a very nice little town with every amenity we need.

Well, the Village board made this happen. Not sure I would punish all businesses ….YET. Now if the people of the village do not come to the aid of the affected small businesses and go to the board and demand correction….well that may be another thing. Perhaps they don’t need consideration.

 

[GOPerfect]

How about the local gun shop owner who wants to help support his LOCAL area?
In order to own firearms, someone must be allowed to sell firearms in the same area the firearms are owned.
How about the less fortunate people who cannot travel 75 miles to buy their firearms snd ammo?
Just spitballing here.

In this case, only the village is saying these stores cannot be there, not all of the town. The town of Babylon still has approved zoning.

 

[GOPerfect]

So, nothing wrong with slavery then ?

After all, it was widely supported for most of history.

Some questions I will not answer honestly.

Granted has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

[Brawny71]

1904 was the first offical Zoning law.

As for Constitutionality, ruled in 1926....

Village of Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co. was a 1926 US Supreme Court case that established the constitutionality of zoning ordinances. The case was a landmark in the development of land use planning in the United States

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 "No state shall convert a liberty into a license, and charge a fee therefore". Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)

Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham Alabama, 373 U.S. 262 "If the State converts a right (Liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (Liberty) with impunity" Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, 373 U.S. 262 (1963)

Deprivation of Rights under color of Law: 18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights

Restricting a demographic by using zoning is a violation of all of the above. Especially with no cause and affect. A fireworks factory within 25 feet of a hospital school may require a zoning clarification. I wonder if the new law restricts Pot stores at all?

 

[GOPerfect]

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 "No state shall convert a liberty into a license, and charge a fee therefore". Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)

Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham Alabama, 373 U.S. 262 "If the State converts a right (Liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (Liberty) with impunity" Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, 373 U.S. 262 (1963)

Deprivation of Rights under color of Law: 18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights

Restricting a demographic by using zoning is a violation of all of the above. Especially with no cause and affect. A fireworks factory within 25 feet of a hospital school may require a zoning clarification. I wonder if the new law restricts Pot stores at all?

I love when we all come together and put our minds to work....


Murdock v Penn: I do not believe this one fits in this issue. I am not a scholar, but from what I understand, this Village case is not about fees being paid. I will look at the other ones as well.

Murdock v. Pennsylvania was a 1943 Supreme Court case that ruled a license tax on door-to-door sales was unconstitutional. The case involved Jehovah's Witnesses who were selling religious literature and soliciting donations in Jeannette, Pennsylvania.



What happened

• Robert Murdock and other Jehovah's Witnesses were arrested, convicted, and fined for violating the ordinance
  

• Murdock sued in federal court, arguing that the ordinance violated his First Amendment rights to free speech, press, and religion
  
  
• The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Murdock, finding that the ordinance was unconstitutional
  

**Why was the ruling made?

• • The court ruled that the ordinance was a tax on religious exercise and a form of censorship
    

• The court found that the ordinance infringed on the constitutional liberties of press and religion
  

• The court ruled that a state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution
  

 

[spat]

I love when we all come together and put our minds to work....


Murdock v Penn: I do not believe this one fits in this issue. I am not a scholar, but from what I understand, this Village case is not about fees being paid. I will look at the other ones as well.

Murdock v. Pennsylvania was a 1943 Supreme Court case that ruled a license tax on door-to-door sales was unconstitutional. The case involved Jehovah's Witnesses who were selling religious literature and soliciting donations in Jeannette, Pennsylvania.



What happened

• Robert Murdock and other Jehovah's Witnesses were arrested, convicted, and fined for violating the ordinance
  

• Murdock sued in federal court, arguing that the ordinance violated his First Amendment rights to free speech, press, and religion
  
  
• The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Murdock, finding that the ordinance was unconstitutional
  

**Why was the ruling made?

• • The court ruled that the ordinance was a tax on religious exercise and a form of censorship
    

• The court found that the ordinance infringed on the constitutional liberties of press and religion
  

• The court ruled that a state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution
  

Would that cover door to door gun sales ?

Now I really want door to door gun salesmen to become a thing....

 

[GOPerfect]

Would that cover door to door gun sales ?

Now I really want door to door gun salesmen to become a thing....

I am not sure. That would be great though.