Why Hollow Points Suck
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Does his mom know he's been shooting in the garage again?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Dead horse for those without an open mind. The revered Federal HST didn't quite HST did it?
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Definitely something to keep in mind the next time you need to shoot some jello and a juice box behind a frozen deer shoulder.
Let's see, was I the one on about frying pans for months because I was stubborn, or was that someone else?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That frozen shoulder could be any barrier. The juice box wasn't necessary.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
we're going to need a bigger Gun 
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That is true. I used to watch shootingthebull410 because of that. He always shot 5. Regardless, a solid bullet isn't going to fragment.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It still has only 9m's.
Robin
Robin
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
ok great, we have a couple 124gr projectiles, what powder did they use and in what quantity.
I hate comparing apples and crabapples
I hate comparing apples and crabapples
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
when are these guys going to put there pieces of wood and jello blocks on PCP and do a test ??? ..
Well at the same time handguns in general suck.
Especially if you are a woman, because not only do they suck at stopping humans but apparently women can't handle them proficiently
Especially if you are a woman, because not only do they suck at stopping humans but apparently women can't handle them proficiently
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
see my pic at the left with the deer .. football hole size on the shooting side , 2 shots . 2 inches apart .. i thought i missed on the first shot lol , first shot straight thru ribs mid section , 2nd , same area and out the front shoulder .. shot when deer was on the run .. .. blood all over .. guts dangling on the thorn apple trees tracking it down ...all i can say is silver bar on the can ... first shot .. he just stood there .. then took off .. 2nd shot on the run ... still ran 50 yards more .. damn buck had to be on drugs lol
SmallGameAddict
.308 Win
I've had similar experiences. Solid hit in the boiler room and took off running. Deer are tough. They survive -20 below temps for days with little food.
99cummins
.308 Win
Guy got a deer a few years back at our place. Destroyed the heart. Deer still ran about 100 yards.
Suby
22lr
Wait fast moving solid bullets defeat barriers better?
Who knows if he hit the exact same spot on the deer shoulder blade. It's important to note that deer have a fairly prominent ridge that runs the length of the blade. If one bullet hit that and the other didn't, results could be dramatically different between the two. Also, as you go further up the blade towards the ball and socket that it connects to, the blade gets thicker/harder. I'm not trying to make excuses for the HST, but the test wasn't exactly controlled well.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What do you need? For the test to be done in a lab? Actual real world experiences aren't going to be controlled either. The fact of the matter is that hollow points mostly work perfectly under controlled conditions. You throw in a leather jacket in it's path, a bone, a window, a car door, a couch's arm, a corner of a sheetrock wall, ect and that's when their unpredictability shines.
Saying the HST broke up and only penetrated 4" is fine. Comparing two results with a test that isn't controlled is useless.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Same meat, same gel block.
Sure the bullet went through the shoulder blade at the same location?
@thewheels
.308 Win
JSP it is. Or stop using a 9mm if your that concerned with penetration?
Switch out the 9mm for 327Mag, 357Sig or 357Mag.
Switch out the 9mm for 327Mag, 357Sig or 357Mag.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Yes. I spent about 15 years doing a variety of material testing in different laboratories. I trust controlled experiments using calibrated materials in a controlled environment using scientific method more than I trust someone doing a one-off "test" using jello, deer bones or frying pans.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You just solidified my point. Hollow points on the street aren't going to hit in controlled situations either. Wouldn't you want a bullet that behaves similarly in most situations rather than only in controlled ones?
Not everyone is going to be walking around bare bellied or wearing 4 layers of denim standing directly in front of you with nothing in between them.
Well, deer bones are more dense than human bones.
And, "dead" bone gets harder as time goes by.
Also, a deers muscle in more dense than humans and they have stronger and more connective tissue.....which also "hardens" after death.
Im not defending either ammo.
Im just saying this experiment is about as acurate, or inaccurate as any.....depending how you see it.
As always, shot placement is paramount.
Anytime a piece of hot, fast metal enters a human body there is a chance of catastrophic damage.
If what you are looking for is instant death from one bullet, aim true and hope you get lucky.
And, "dead" bone gets harder as time goes by.
Also, a deers muscle in more dense than humans and they have stronger and more connective tissue.....which also "hardens" after death.
Im not defending either ammo.
Im just saying this experiment is about as acurate, or inaccurate as any.....depending how you see it.
As always, shot placement is paramount.
Anytime a piece of hot, fast metal enters a human body there is a chance of catastrophic damage.
If what you are looking for is instant death from one bullet, aim true and hope you get lucky.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
9mm penetrates just fine when a solid is used. You'll get the same under-penetration with hollow points of larger calibers if something gets in the way and fragments the bullet.
You're missing my point. The video is comparing two bullets. You can't compare two things in an uncontrolled environment. You can't compare two weightlifters when one of them is lifting a bucket of feathers on Earth and another is lifting a bucket of lead on the moon. You can't say broadhead X is better than broadhead Y on an arrow when one hits the shoulder blade and another is shot through the ribs not contacting any bone.
Yes, the HST didn't perform all that well, probably because it broke up. Was this a one off thing or is it common? Hard to tell when only one round is shot. Do you really want the bullet to go through bone, and then another 16" of penetration? Remember, more energy is dumped into the person being shot when bullets don't come screaming out the other side. What was the actual dimensions of the wound channel? The hollow point probably expanded significantly more than the other bullet in this test.
A better test would have been to shoot multiple bullets into a controlled target. Shoot 5 bullets through drywall into gel. Then shoot 5 rounds through a 1/4" piece of plywood sandwiched between two flank steaks and see how far that goes into ballistics gel. Shoot 5 rounds where they deflect off a 2" diameter pipe and see how they go through gel. Shoot 5 rounds through the same spot on a deer and see what happens.
Shooting one bullet into an uncontrolled target and then using that result to say hollow points suck is ridiculous. Frankly, if the HST bullet went through muscle (possibly frozen?) an inch of deer bone (which is tougher/denser than human), through more muscle, and then still penetrated four inches... The bullet didn't perform that poorly.