Point Counterpoint Thread

[Dr. Evil]

Starting the thread about my son's class gave me this idea. Why not start a thread that maybe even can become a sticky that will give anyone that needs them good ways to squash the pathetic arguments we may hear. Please be specific in the liberal point as well as your counterpoint. I'll start.

Liberal point: Cars weren't designed to kill people like guns were.

Counterpoint: A gun and a car is a tool. A car was made to drive and a gun was made to shoot. What you do with it is the issue here. I can use a car or a gun for good and bad. I can use a car to run over people, drive into crowded areas, etc. or I can use it to get me where I need to go. A gun can be used to protect as proven by various links I have posted before or it can be used to kill innocent people. It is dependent on the individual's usage because again, a car is designed to drive and a gun is designed to shoot. Period. A knife is made to cut. What you cut can either be beneficial or harmful but it is made to cut something, not kill people.

Address other anti talking points and post your specific answer to rebuff it. Try not to be general and try to play devil's advocate in how your answer can be used against you when you make your point. Let's trim the fat and cut to the chase so we can basically have a concise well thought out response before we even come across this crap in our day to day dealings with idiots. Remember the format. First the liberal point then your counterpoint.

 

[Twogunwilly]

Q: Why do you need a 30 round magazine?
A: They don't make a 31.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Q: Why do you need a 30 round magazine?
A: They don't make a 31.

Oh. I forgot to mention. Please try to be constructive in the intent of this thread. There are other threads we can be funny, say "because and just fuck you", etc.. I am trying to make this an efficient use of our time and effort with something tangible as a result.

 

[218bee]

A good start...actually a younger guy telling it like it is, as opposed to a crotchety old fart like me barking at my kids..

 

[Target]

Who needs a weapon of war ? ( the new buzz word).

It's only a weapon of war if used as one.
It is a competition target rifle, hunting rifle, defensive tool, offensive tool, deterrent, .
Due to its design a 100lb 5'0" person can safely and effectively use it for whatever task is needed as well as a 250lb person
Joe Biden's double barrel shotgun...not so much.

Only the military and police should have that type of gun!
- I saw a movie like that before. It was called Shindler's List.
How would you choose?

So if the Jews had guns they could have defeated the entire German army, the same one that armies from 6 countries almost failed to Do?
It could have been a deterrent or they could have put up a fight and no go into the boxcats willingly.
If you're ok with being made into a lamp shade, shame on you!.
( No offence is intended towards Dr Evil's people. The statement is intended for shock value. I have been to Daucau ( concentration camp near Munich). It was a heart breaking experience.

You can defend yourself with a shot gun or hunting rifle.
-- You could, depending on the situation.
Ever tool has its use. You could haul wood with your car , it's not the best choice for that job, though. You would use a truck, given the choice.

 

[Catskillkid]

Point: The 2nd is outdated. The Founders could not have envisioned fully automatic machine guns.

Counterpoint: They also couldn't have envisioned radio, TV or the internet and yet there's no call for banning that. What's good for one amendment is good for all the rest.

 

[Catskillkid]

If a Muslim commits a terrorist attack we go to great lengths to be sure to say that it was the individual terrorist and not all Muslims. SHouldn't we do the same with gun owners? There are close to 120 million gun owners (estimated) in this country. Nearly all of them have never harmed a single soul.

 

[Catskillkid]

Point: Civilian gun owners can never take on a tyrannical government that has tanks, planes, nuclear bombs, etc.

Counter Point: The Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, etc. did so and have had much success. In all honestly, they're winning against the US. All they have is small arms.

 

[Catskillkid]

Point: The US government is democracy and would never violate it's citizen's rights.

Counterpoint: First, technically it's a Republic. But in the past it has committed genocide (Wounded Knee Massacre), interned citizens (Japanese internment), spied on its citizens (1960s Civil Rights movement) and killed citizens on its soil (Rudy Ridge and Waco) and overseas (Drone strikes against US citizens fighting for ISIS and Al Qaida). It already has a track record of not playing very nice.

 

[96coal449]

I like to answer them with a question to make them think ....try and turn their brains back on.

We have a government with a military to protect us.

Ask the indians if you should trust the gov.

 

[Defilade]

 

[Catskillkid]

The AR-15, a Tool For Good. Nine Powerful Real Life Examples to Counter the Left’s Empty Rhetoric

Real life examples of the AR-15 being used for good.

 

[dwa12479]

Point: No one needs a high capacity 30 round clip

Counterpoint: The capacity rating (high, low etc) is subjective. 30 round mags have been the standard issue for the AR-15 for decades. You can't come along one day and arbitrarily decide that 30 is "high", but 10 is ok. Or 7. Hey, how about 1? Eff it, lets make it 0 and just turn in your gun.

 

[96coal449]

Back when this BS was thrust into legislature and there was supposed to be a 7rd limit I had a discussion about it with my brother. He's a hunter and not anti gun but, he felt safe being all his fire arms were safe from the BS. He still argued against the act but stated to me he could understand the 7 round rule.

I said a big WHAT?!?!?! I reminded him that this was all supposed to be from the "event" of sandy hook.
So I asked him ....8 dead children are unacceptable but 7 are okay?

All I could hear is him thinking. There was nothing but dead silence and the crackle of flames in the fire pit.

 

[holdover]

Why is it OK for the police to be armed with carbines but not citizens?

Because the police are trained in the use of fire arms.

So it becomes only a matter of training then . Civilians need more training in the use of carbines. Im all for that.

 

[96coal449]

Why is it OK for the police to be armed with carbines but not citizens?

Because the police are trained in the use of fire arms.

So it becomes only a matter of training then . Civilians need more training in the use of carbines. Im all for that.

Yes ..... they should all join the CMP or local militia.

 

[tirwin1]

Point: school shootings are increasing in frequency.

Counterpoint: They are not.
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say

 

[GOPerfect]

Point: We need stronger Background Checks. More comprehensive.

Counterpoint: Talking to the wrong person with this one. I am 100% against these checks. They do not work and they are a violation of the Second Amendment. These checks are in direct violation of other Rights as well. There are no other Rights that a check like this require. I can vote without someone searching my past. The First Amendment, um, no checks there either. None of our Rights should be infringed upon in order for us to exercise them.

 

[Target]

Point ( from a Op Ed post on Syracuse.com)
We know gun control works in countries where they have real control. To understand the far right you need to listen to a few hours of right wing radio. There is a hard core group who have many weapons and they are stocking up for war with the government. Limbaugh had one guy on from Texas last week and he wants his guns to fight off a future "oppressive government" who will in so many words enact real gun control.

Many restrictions can be enacted now and if that isn't enough then indeed the second can be amended to clearly place limits on weapons if necessary, but realizes what we are dealing with. Many of the people think that their guns are going to put them in power. All the more reason why the NRA needs to be faced down now,.

Counterpoint:
Are you saying or can you guarantee, that there will not be an oppressive government in the US?
Plenty of other countries have them. Especially the ones with strict gun control.

I have no delusions of being "in power", I also have no intentions of having my loved ones herded into places like the Superdome after Katrina if something were to occur.
As highly unlikely as it may be.

I truly hope that my children , grandchildren or potential great-grandchildren will never have to take up arms to keep their lives or livelyhood .
I certainly do not want their ability to do so taken away by the likes of you.

The 2nd Amendment is in place to deter abuse to American citizens. Without the 2nd how can we keep the other amendments?
To do this we, as citizens, must be able to stand our ground by having arms capable of defending ourselves or repelling those who wish to take our rights away.

We cannot do this with muskets.

 

[Acer-m14]

Liberal point: Cars weren't designed to kill people like guns were.

do you need of a beer can filling my 4x4 gas tank ... my 4x4 is drinking n may drive ,, i don't drink in drive , but my truck has other motives ..

 

[Target]

Point:
You're presuming that owning a gun is an "essential liberty" or even essential for liberty.

Counterpoint:
How does one keep or obtain ones liberty otherwise?

Have you heard of the Golden Rule?
Those with the gold make the rules.

Kim Jong Un controls the "gold" , not the North Korean peasants. They have no liberty, heck,they hardly have food.

Chairman Mao did not allow his serfs liberty, They had no means with which to get it.
20 million of them died.

Americans are fat and happy.
Let us hope this continues.

 

[Target]

Liberal point: Cars weren't designed to kill people like guns were.

Yet cars kill more people than firearms.
there were 37 451 deaths on US roads last year.

There were 33000 deaths involving firearms of which 21ooo were suicide.
Of the 11000 homicides, 300ish involved rifles.
They are fixated on the tool least used in firearm related deaths.

 

[Jem45472]

Point the ar15 has super deadly fast bullets.


Counterpoint. The ar15 is weak and anemic compared to most other hunting rifles out there.