Trying to separate Trump from his base.

[spat]

I have seen a large number of articles lately from a variety of sources claiming that Trump has done or said something strongly supportive of one form or another of gun control.

When you look into the detail, the headlines are widely sensationalized versions of something he said, or complete fabrications from whole cloth.

Is this an attempt to destroy Trump's connection with his base ? After all, what better way to cripple him than to get the people who support him to doubt their support.

Nobody who supported trump is likely to vote for the Hillary look-a-like that the Dems run in 2020 from this sort of behavior, but it could easily get some Republican voters to stay home in 2018, or 2020.

So, I ask, is this just ratings whoring from the media, or a concerted effort to sabotage the right wing base ?

 

[Jmac00]

actually trump did/does support a beach of the Constitution. He wants to "take the guns and worry about due process later"

That is a staggering departure for his support of the 2A

Oh ya, if this bullshit gets voted into law, you better not spit on the sidewalk. that will be grounds for confiscation

 

[livingston]

President Trump Hosts Bipartisan Meeting on School Safety and Firearms…
A bit of a write up on what is going on ... The comments section has a lot of back and forth .

 

[FrankenCub]

I hear too much "weapons of war" BS.

 

[spat]

actually trump did/does support a beach of the Constitution. He wants to "take the guns and worry about due process later"

That is a staggering departure for his support of the 2A

Oh ya, if this bullshit gets voted into law, you better not spit on the sidewalk. that will be grounds for confiscation

If you take that to mean probable cause, then he's right.

If you have probable cause that someone is committing a crime, then you lock them up and take their guns immediately and do the paperwork after.

I am not in favor of taking any guns unless you lock up the person you took them from (it's the only thing that makes sense, given how easy it is to get an illegal gun).

Until something more specific comes out about this proposal of his, I will assume he is talking about probable cause. Which is a well established legal principle.

 

[Darth]

You know that you can go right on his Facebook page at any time and see him saying these things right?

No conspiracy here. Once anti 2A, always anti 2A.

 

[spat]

You know that you can go right on his Facebook page at any time and see him saying these things right?

No conspiracy here. Once anti 2A, always anti 2A.

I know he's far from an ideal 2A supporter, but he's the best we've got right now, and a damn sight better than the alternative we nearly had.

My question was about the multitude of stories that are *exaggerating* his failings with respect to the 2A, not few that are discussing them reasonably.

 

[Darth]

I know he's far from an ideal 2A supporter, but he's the best we've got right now, and a damn sight better than the alternative we nearly had.

My question was about the multitude of stories that are *exaggerating* his failings with respect to the 2A, not few that are discussing them reasonably.

The "BUT HE'S BETTER THAN HILLARY!" thing is getting old.

He's already buttered more anti gun bread than Obama ever did.

His SCOTUS pick is weaksauce on the 2A. His AG is a complete moron stuck in a bygone decade. He hasn't accomplished nearly any of his campaign promises. Greatly increased military spending and continued our needless globetrotting.

So is he better than Hillary? Not sure. But even if he was, we are well beyond using that as a "free pass" to shit all over the constitution.

 

[spat]

The "BUT HE'S BETTER THAN HILLARY!" thing is getting old.

He's already buttered more anti gun bread than Obama ever did.

His SCOTUS pick is weaksauce on the 2A. His AG is a complete moron stuck in a bygone decade. He hasn't accomplished nearly any of his campaign promises. Greatly increased military spending and continued our needless globetrotting.

So is he better than Hillary? Not sure. But even if he was, we are well beyond using that as a "free pass" to shit all over the constitution.

You're seriously "not sure" that he's better than Hillary ?

Can you imagine what we'd be facing right now with Hillary in the Whitehouse and a Dem controlled House and Senate ?

We'd be lucky to keep our muzzleloaders.

 

[Darth]

You're seriously "not sure" that he's better than Hillary ?

Can you imagine what we'd be facing right now with Hillary in the Whitehouse and a Dem controlled House and Senate ?

We'd be lucky to keep our muzzleloaders.

Could you imagine if we had a Republican controlled House Senate and President, and we get the worst gun control proposals we've had in over a decade?

So yeah, at this point, I'm seriously not sure.

 

[livingston]

This is from the treehouse above .. SO true
dalethorn says:
March 1, 2018 at 12:11 am


Problem is, we had every way in the world to stop the Fla shooter, but the whole mess of officials there didn’t. If you believe that everyone there made a mistake by coincidence, you’d be mistaken. And that leads to the very real problem we have that WILL get more kids killed — the anti-gun fanatics will do *anything* to get their agenda across, including make sure that the Florida “mistakes and failures” happen in other places, soon enough. No matter what you suggest, you cannot stop these shootings until you have real accountability of these officials. There is ZERO accountability now in many, many districts run by radical liberals.

 

[livingston]

 

[holdover]

If you take that to mean probable cause, then he's right.

If you have probable cause that someone is committing a crime, then you lock them up and take their guns immediately and do the paperwork after.

I am not in favor of taking any guns unless you lock up the person you took them from (it's the only thing that makes sense, given how easy it is to get an illegal gun).

Until something more specific comes out about this proposal of his, I will assume he is talking about probable cause. Which is a well established legal principle.

Probable cause is grounds for arresting a person who has committed a crime. The courts decide guilt or innocence .

This is not based on probable cause. Probable cause is established by several articulable facts that a reasonable person would conclude that a crime was committed and the accused committed the crime.

Last time I checked depression or mental illness was not a crime. What effectively is being done here is the criminalization of mental illness, without a trial or representation or expert opinion.. Detained and property confiscated before due process . This is a massive abridgement of the 4th amendment .

Something like this could be considered the keystone of a police state.

If this goes through were fucked ten ways to midnight.

 

[Saltwater60]

actually trump did/does support a beach of the Constitution. He wants to "take the guns and worry about due process later"

That is a staggering departure for his support of the 2A

Oh ya, if this bullshit gets voted into law, you better not spit on the sidewalk. that will be grounds for confiscation

Well it’s working with me. I’m not happy at all.

I agree. If this gets voted into law I will not talk about guns with anyone, I will not argue with anyone, I will get rid of all my 2a shirts, hats, and stickers. All it takes is for one liberal that hates guns to know you have them and one call to the cops. Then there goes your guns for a year and $10,000.

 

[livingston]

I hear too much "weapons of war" BS.

Because .. Now that can filter down to the 1911 and all it's bastard offspring ...Glock , Sig ,kimber.... 1911 was designed to be a weapon of war ...

 

[Jezman]

This is already happening. Have someone say you are threatening them with false gun claims. They will ask you to volunteer to surrender your weapons or they will be back to take them. Not quite sure what's the deal in Florida but it is a major cluster fuck for sure.

 

[livingston]

Probable cause is grounds for arresting a person who has committed a crime. The courts decide guilt or innocence .

This is not based on probable cause. Probable cause is established by several articulable facts that a reasonable person would conclude that a crime was committed and the accused committed the crime.

Last time I checked depression or mental illness was not a crime. What effectively is being done here is the criminalization of mental illness, without a trial or representation or expert opinion.. Detained and property confiscated before due process . This is a massive abridgement of the 4th amendment .

Something like this could be considered the keystone of a police state.

If this goes through were fucked ten ways to midnight.

And the chances of it getting to SOTUS... as we have seen .. very slim .