New York Judge Issues Red Flag-Style Gun Confiscation a Full Month Before the Law Takes Effect
- Thread starter redtail
- Start date
@thewheels
.308 Win
Disparaging comments and alleged improprieties are sufficient to lose your 2a rights?
Bunch of power tripping, butthurt, typical NY bullshit on display.
Bunch of power tripping, butthurt, typical NY bullshit on display.
Hahahahahahaha. Fuck this state.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I just scanned the article, but if I got it right, someone should go to jail over this. FUNY!
Robin
Robin
Justincase
6.5 Creedmoor
I literally just logged on to post this same article. I couldn't believe how brazen these asshats are. I'm seriously considering going to the demonstration.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
The sooner I get out, the better. These people have lost their minds.
Bob
6.5 Creedmoor
This case has nothing to do with the "red flag" law.
Article 400 of NYS Penal Law states
"A license may be revoked and cancelled at any time in the city of New York, and in the counties of Nassau and Suffolk, by the licensing officer, and elsewhere than in the city of New York by any judge or justice of a court of record;"
And then goes on to state
" In any instance in which a person's license is suspended or revoked under paragraph (a) or (b) of this subdivision, such person shall surrender such license to the appropriate licensing official and any and all firearms, rifles, or shotguns owned or possessed by such person shall be surrendered to an appropriate law enforcement agency"
Any judge anywhere in the state can suspend or revoke your pistol permit at any time. When that happens, you have to surrender ALL of your guns - handguns AND long guns. This is a provision of the SAFE Act.
This is what happened in this instance.
If the reports are accurate, and it was retaliation for merely disparaging (not threatening) remarks, this could be a great case to help chip away at New York's pistol permitting scheme.
Article 400 of NYS Penal Law states
"A license may be revoked and cancelled at any time in the city of New York, and in the counties of Nassau and Suffolk, by the licensing officer, and elsewhere than in the city of New York by any judge or justice of a court of record;"
And then goes on to state
" In any instance in which a person's license is suspended or revoked under paragraph (a) or (b) of this subdivision, such person shall surrender such license to the appropriate licensing official and any and all firearms, rifles, or shotguns owned or possessed by such person shall be surrendered to an appropriate law enforcement agency"
Any judge anywhere in the state can suspend or revoke your pistol permit at any time. When that happens, you have to surrender ALL of your guns - handguns AND long guns. This is a provision of the SAFE Act.
This is what happened in this instance.
If the reports are accurate, and it was retaliation for merely disparaging (not threatening) remarks, this could be a great case to help chip away at New York's pistol permitting scheme.
oc shooter
.223 Rem
some pretty convoluted bullshit
Guilty until proven innocent it's the NY way.
NY's Red Flag law just makes the current situation even worse. I know, because it happened to me a few years ago. In my case, a guy showed up at my house who had previously threatened to kill me multiple times. We both called 911; the cops came; and disarmed me while they investigated. Then, they sent him away, and gave me my handgun back, and left. I thought that was the end of it, but it wasn't.
I had no idea, but the OPPD Chief of Police (since forcibly retired) wrote a letter to the Erie County PPD DEMANDING that my permit be revoked BECAUSE I had "used profanity" to dissuade said asshole from getting out of his car and coming after me on my own property, AND, because "I was carrying ammunition for my handgun on me".
Six months later the PPD suspended my permit; ordered me to surrender my handguns and my permit; and told me I would have to go to NY Supreme Court to explain why my "arrest" shouldn't make me lose my permit and my firearms. As I had not been arrested, I had no fucking idea what they were referencing.
I hired a lawyer; surrendered my guns and my permit, and went to court, where I was told of the accusatory letter (although the judge refused to let me see it or to have a copy...WTF?). I insisted on testifying right then and there without any prep. I asked the judge: Would you rather I had drawn my firearm and shot the asshole, or used the less lethal means to keep him away from me and off my property that I did by using profanity? The judge just laughed. When the judge asked me about carrying ammo for my gun, I asked him: What good is a gun without ammunition? And I reminded him that I have an Unrestricted Permit, which allows me to carry my handgun loaded in public, and certainly on my own property. He just laughed again.
He reinstated my permit the same day.
But in NY, they can and do still fuck with you. The PPD took months to send me a letter telling me that my permit was now "reinstated". Then, they "forgot" to send a copy of their letter to the OPPD, who, of course refused to release my guns to me without said letter. And once they finally got the letter, it took them weeks to release my guns back to me because they were "too busy" at the time.
All NY's Red Flag law does is make the situation even worse. And of course, short of SCOTUS ever really shutting down this kind of bullshit behavior that is exacerbated in the "may issue" state, gun owners are basically screwed if someone out there wants to make a BS complaint.
/end of rant.
I had no idea, but the OPPD Chief of Police (since forcibly retired) wrote a letter to the Erie County PPD DEMANDING that my permit be revoked BECAUSE I had "used profanity" to dissuade said asshole from getting out of his car and coming after me on my own property, AND, because "I was carrying ammunition for my handgun on me".
Six months later the PPD suspended my permit; ordered me to surrender my handguns and my permit; and told me I would have to go to NY Supreme Court to explain why my "arrest" shouldn't make me lose my permit and my firearms. As I had not been arrested, I had no fucking idea what they were referencing.
I hired a lawyer; surrendered my guns and my permit, and went to court, where I was told of the accusatory letter (although the judge refused to let me see it or to have a copy...WTF?). I insisted on testifying right then and there without any prep. I asked the judge: Would you rather I had drawn my firearm and shot the asshole, or used the less lethal means to keep him away from me and off my property that I did by using profanity? The judge just laughed. When the judge asked me about carrying ammo for my gun, I asked him: What good is a gun without ammunition? And I reminded him that I have an Unrestricted Permit, which allows me to carry my handgun loaded in public, and certainly on my own property. He just laughed again.
He reinstated my permit the same day.
But in NY, they can and do still fuck with you. The PPD took months to send me a letter telling me that my permit was now "reinstated". Then, they "forgot" to send a copy of their letter to the OPPD, who, of course refused to release my guns to me without said letter. And once they finally got the letter, it took them weeks to release my guns back to me because they were "too busy" at the time.
All NY's Red Flag law does is make the situation even worse. And of course, short of SCOTUS ever really shutting down this kind of bullshit behavior that is exacerbated in the "may issue" state, gun owners are basically screwed if someone out there wants to make a BS complaint.
/end of rant.
Carlos Hathcock
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Good news is that OPPD asshole is gone now....but not before making another money grab deal on his way out.
RBean
.40 S&W
Nassau County, NY already does this. They don't need any "red flag law." They didn't violate any rights because a gun owner, especially pistols, does not have any rights. J. Spatt said so. We will appeal to the 2nd Circuit. Then the Supreme Court. Supreme Court says it is an enumerated, individual, fundamental constitutional right. NY says it's a privilege to be bestowed or denied at their whim. Both can't be right. So if the Heller decision of the United States Supreme Court does not apply to NY, does that mean NY is not a part of the United States? Maybe. That is the only explanation of Spatt's (or more likely his law clerk's) decision.
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
The connection to the Red Flag law is that it will be a very similar process. Once the law goes into effect, it won't be just pissed of officials or good-ol-boys club members that can bring the state's wrath down upon you. Police, DAs, school administrators, teachers or coaches, family members, ex-spouses or girlfriends and anyone who the court decides has had an "intimate" relationship with you (doesn't necessarily mean sexual in this context but could): all of these people could start a process against you that looks very similar to what is mentioned in the article. I think there will be dozens of cases like this across the state within a few years at most.
RBean
.40 S&W
There will be more than a dozen. More like thousands within a few years.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
I’m my area Erie and Niagara county if the cops show up for any domestic reason your guns are gone and you need to go to court to get them back. I mean any reason. I yell at my wife and the neighbor calls the cops they are gone. No crime committed no arrest doesn’t matter tour guns are gone gone gone.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
Modean
.223 Rem
And that is why I will not get a pistol permit. Not only is the process invasive and arbitrary, if you lose your permit for some reason you lose ALL your firearms. No thanks.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I think Red Flag has to fold under constitutional scrutiny. I really do understand why they do it. If somebody is presently threatening or about go off the deep end, it makes sense--but it needs to be heavily time constrained. For example I cannot go to prison without a conviction, but I can be arrested and held for a short period of time if it looks like I did something. So temporarily I can be withheld without a conviction but ultimately I need one. Red flag law seems to break the cardinal rule of prohibiting a constitutional right without any due process, and we can't have it.
I have a coworker who's a few times talked about not wanting to go to counselling over the death of a family member because he wants to apply for a permit soon and is concerned that it would come up on an application. And given ny state, his concern is grounded in some reality.
TLDR: If somebody's behavior is egregious enough to prohibit them from having a gun under red flag it should be egregious enough to get a conviction, and then they lose their gun because they are a felon, not because of this orwellian type stuff.
I have a coworker who's a few times talked about not wanting to go to counselling over the death of a family member because he wants to apply for a permit soon and is concerned that it would come up on an application. And given ny state, his concern is grounded in some reality.
TLDR: If somebody's behavior is egregious enough to prohibit them from having a gun under red flag it should be egregious enough to get a conviction, and then they lose their gun because they are a felon, not because of this orwellian type stuff.
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
This effect is VERY common (no I won't discuss what has led me to this conclusion). The fact that they went after the librarian near Buffalo for his prescription history, all of the erroneous 9.46 referrals, this case and all that are bound to follow when the red flag law takes effect... I would say his concern is grounded in mountains of reality.
M_F
.45 acp
They lose the their gun rights after being convicted, incarcerated and complete their sentence (including parole, restitution, community service hours, etc). After they complete their sentence if they are considered safe enough to live in a free society, they should have all their constitutional rights restored including RKBA and voting.