spat
.950 JDJ
We've been through this before.
We can't because it's not there. But it doesn't need to be because there is no section that makes it illegal.
Please post the section of law that says I can wear a red hat ? Does that mean it's illegal ?
Man allegedly arrested for defending his land in NY
- Thread starter Doc8404
- Start date
We can't because it's not there. But it doesn't need to be because there is no section that makes it illegal.
Please post the section of law that says I can wear a red hat ? Does that mean it's illegal ?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. We have been through this before. Penal law 265 makes ownership, possession, and carry of a pistol illegal. Penal law 400 exempts you from Penal law 265. That exemption is to have and carry concealed only.
spat
.950 JDJ
And we have shown why that is an incorrect analysis of PL400.
I am permitted to keep my pistols in my safe, nobody is claiming that is illegal. That is "having" but not "carrying concealed".
Therefore PL400 allows you to have handguns in your possession "having them" and it *also* allows you to carry them concealed (in addition to carrying them openly, which was the only legal way to carry them in many jurisdictions before this law was passed)
spat
.950 JDJ
Do we know this guy was confronted with a handgun and not a long gun ?
Is open carry of a long gun legal in NY then ?
What about an "other" ? Should I pick up a shockwave for OC ?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Your mental gymnastics goes against the words of the N.Y. penal laws themselves and every lawyer hired by the NRA and anyone else who’s hired one for clarification.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yes. Legal. Why? Because a long gun isn’t a firearm. Firearms are illegal for possession and carry as per Penal Law 265. You should really read the penal laws before you post assumptions here.
spat
.950 JDJ
You're the one employing mental gymnastics. And I have never seen any of these lawyers opinions.
If what you say is true, then why is every instance of someone OCing charged as disturbing the peace, or something of that nature and not the violation you claim it is ?
Surely if your right there would be one conviction for violation of PL400 for just OCing in the 100 years of the sullivan act, right ?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Come on dude. You are smarter than that. Convictions mean nothing. Going by that, than the Assault Weapon laws don’t exist in Erie County for example because there are no convictions there.
And as far as mental gymnastics go, yeah. Myself and all NRA lawyers who researched the penal laws are using mental gymnastics. Open carrying is indeed legal like you say. Lawyers are wrong.
Go open carrying in public for the next month and tell me what happens.
spat
.950 JDJ
I am sure I would be hassled and maybe even charged with something *other* than a violation of pl400 or pl265.
Sigh. Endless argument. Although spat is wrong, he will not give up. It's cut and dried.
That's the problem in New York.
The laws are so vague and confusing that it is easy to come to multiple conclusions. They should have been thrown out decades ago!
Ignoring the fact that PL265 is unconstitutional on its face, as it is a blatant infringement on the Right to Bear Arms.
It is the Courts that are playing the mental gymnastics, and we honest citizens who suffer for it.
If the original post is correct, that the man was arrested for "brandishing" on his own property, then it probably falls under the whole "duty to retreat" b.s.
Not to mention we all know the NYSP are not the bastion of Rights upholders we think they should be.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Can you post the link to the law where it isn't?
Is a private property owner walking to their private range not open carrying?
Of course there is more to this story.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I did that yesterday. With a rifle and a pistol.
The only concern I had was whether it was going to rain.
spat
.950 JDJ
So, let's do this, when covid opens up, we'll pick some mall or something, I'll OC a pistol and you OC a rifle and we'll see who gets arrested for what.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Why would I open carry a rifle?
spat
.950 JDJ
You said it's legal.
Not that it changes much but the property owner did call the police to have the person removed......according to this story.
I think alot of this has to do with where you live. Where I live I know of people open carrying while confronting trespassers with no issues.
A few years ago I was advised to carry a gun on my property by DEC and local authorities. However, we were having problems with poachers so the local LEOs assumed the trespassers would be armed while commiting a crime. Thats a bit different.
If there is not specific control (restrictions) instituted by "law"..... then it is not unlawful!
I can and will if I so chose, carry a weapon on my person, on my own private property without intrusion by others, or the Gov't, to tell me what I can only do by "PERMISSION" even if it (permission) is not defined! That is what is refered to as arbitrary and capricious... I guess if I'm walking through the woods on my property with an Axe, and a tree hugging koolaid drinking snowflake becomes alarmed while trespassing because I become irate and demand he vacate my property while holding the Axe, I'm also a threat? Just stop...
And this is the problem with hypothetical scenarios, any outcome is able to be arrived at, just because you say so! I'll leave where I usually do on these type of scenarios, and that is for the person to support their position with some case history, trial and conviction of a person meeting the criteria of the discussion! You won't find any...
Have a nice day!
I can and will if I so chose, carry a weapon on my person, on my own private property without intrusion by others, or the Gov't, to tell me what I can only do by "PERMISSION" even if it (permission) is not defined! That is what is refered to as arbitrary and capricious... I guess if I'm walking through the woods on my property with an Axe, and a tree hugging koolaid drinking snowflake becomes alarmed while trespassing because I become irate and demand he vacate my property while holding the Axe, I'm also a threat? Just stop...
And this is the problem with hypothetical scenarios, any outcome is able to be arrived at, just because you say so! I'll leave where I usually do on these type of scenarios, and that is for the person to support their position with some case history, trial and conviction of a person meeting the criteria of the discussion! You won't find any...
Have a nice day!
Now that I am living in a state (NC) where firearms and firearm owners are treated reasonably, it pains me to read about the BS in NY. I sure as hell don’t miss it!
Here, open carry is legal WITHOUT a CCW. You need a permit to conceal carry. No one flips out at the mere sight of a gun.
Back in NY, the (now forcibly retired) Police Chief in my town of Orchard Park tried to get my permit revoked because I was carrying concealed on my own property with spare ammo (OMG!) at the same time that I warned a man who had threatened my life on multiple occasions; (and had now shown up after being warned not to) and was attempting to trespass onto my property when I warned him off by using just some mild profanity. As it was, I had to surrender my firearms, hire a lawyer, and spent 6 months fighting to get them back.
If that same scenario happened down here, the cops would have scolded me if I had let him live. Down here, smart people do not trespass. And they sure as hell never threaten anyone who is own their own property either.
It is good to live here. FUAC!
Here, open carry is legal WITHOUT a CCW. You need a permit to conceal carry. No one flips out at the mere sight of a gun.
Back in NY, the (now forcibly retired) Police Chief in my town of Orchard Park tried to get my permit revoked because I was carrying concealed on my own property with spare ammo (OMG!) at the same time that I warned a man who had threatened my life on multiple occasions; (and had now shown up after being warned not to) and was attempting to trespass onto my property when I warned him off by using just some mild profanity. As it was, I had to surrender my firearms, hire a lawyer, and spent 6 months fighting to get them back.
If that same scenario happened down here, the cops would have scolded me if I had let him live. Down here, smart people do not trespass. And they sure as hell never threaten anyone who is own their own property either.
It is good to live here. FUAC!
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So?
spat
.950 JDJ
You are really not following this conversation ?
You challenged me to OC for a month to prove it's legal.
I said how about we both do it once at a mall, you with a rifle that you say is legal and me with a pistol that you say is illegal.
Now you're asking me why you would OC a rifle ?
umm, to prove your point ?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You know that open carrying of rifles is legal. I know and you know. Why would I have to open carry them?
spat
.950 JDJ
Why wouldn't you ?
For the same reason I wouldn't OC a handgun, and it's not PL 265 or PL 400.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
To answer your question, because it is stupid to in my opinion in public. You have no tactical advantage and the police are overreaching.
But let’s get back to the subject at hand. Why is open carrying of rifles legal? Once you answer that, then we could move forward to pistols.
Vapor
.308 Win
Troop C is Technically in Delaware county. I used to live down the road from it.
In Chenango it would most likely be responded to by the Sherriff's department.
In Chenango it would most likely be responded to by the Sherriff's department.
spat
.950 JDJ
It is legal because it is not expressly forbidden by law.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
This is New York it works the opposite of that in practice.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Okay. And we can agree that penal law 265 is what does not forbid it by law since long guns aren’t firearms correct?