Minks in Denmark get Covid from handlers and ot mutates then get passed back to handlers.

[Saltwater60]

This is very interesting for sure.
I fear this very much that it could get spread to many wild animals through contact. They should be burning and incinerating these sick animals. If not nice and rats could get it and it could be spread to predators.
From the article.
At fur farms, scientists have seen Covid-19 transfer from minks to cats through mink manure, and are worried about what would happen if it gets into wildlife populations.

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[SonOfSun]

Imagine Saudi Arabia if this gets spread to camels.

 

[prambo]

It's Goolag linking to an NBC "News" article - I trust neither.

There's a lot of holes in the article - they keep calling it COVID-19...are these animals presenting with symptoms similar to COVID, or have they actually isolated, sequenced and confirmed serial passage, in the lab, of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that "causes" COVID-19.

"We know Covid-19 came from an animal host, and spilled into humans recently,..." - they can't even use the correct terminology.

Also, the "natural animal origins" of SARS-CoV-2 has not been shown conclusively, far from it. Conversely, Li-Ming Yan's work details how it was probably fabricated by Chinese scientists at The Wuhan Institute of Virology. I found her work very compelling and convincing.

“I worry we are not doing enough to monitor that situation to make sure this virus isn’t spilling into the animal populations", Runstadler said. This is not the way a zoonotic move from one species to another, it's a slow process. It doesn't all of a sudden "spill over" from one species to another.

Never seen such unprofessional drivel come from those who should know better.

BUT, there are those research grants they must have for tenure, so what the hell!! - jump on the COVID bandwagon.

 

[Saltwater60]

It's Goolag linking to an NBC "News" article - I trust neither.

There's a lot of holes in the article - they keep calling it COVID-19...are these animals presenting with symptoms similar to COVID, or have they actually isolated, sequenced and confirmed serial passage, in the lab, of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that "causes" COVID-19.

"We know Covid-19 came from an animal host, and spilled into humans recently,..." - they can't even use the correct terminology.

Also, the "natural animal origins" of SARS-CoV-2 has not been shown conclusively, far from it. Conversely, Li-Ming Yan's work details how it was probably fabricated by Chinese scientists at The Wuhan Institute of Virology. I found her work very compelling and convincing.

“I worry we are not doing enough to monitor that situation to make sure this virus isn’t spilling into the animal populations", Runstadler said. This is not the way a zoonotic move from one species to another, it's a slow process. It doesn't all of a sudden "spill over" from one species to another.

Never seen such unprofessional drivel come from those who should know better.

BUT, there are those research grants they must have for tenure, so what the hell!! - jump on the COVID bandwagon.

Actually if you did a quick google search you would have seen this is well documented and seems to be happening in the USA as well. Seems widespread and well know. Article say it goes from human to mink, mutates, and reinfected humans. Also in Utah went from farmed minks to wild minks. It’s also been discovered in other animals too.
The Who article uses the proper terminology. Just because they use the common name doesn’t mean it’s not a fact. Most people just say Covid at this point.

SARS-CoV-2 mink-associated variant strain – Denmark

Since June 2020, 214 human cases of COVID-19 have been identified in Denmark with SARS-CoV-2 variants associated with farmed minks, including 12 cases with a unique variant, reported on 5 November.

www.who.int

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[prambo]

Actually if you did a quick google search you would have seen this is well documented and seems to be happening in the USA as well. Seems widespread and well know. Article say it goes from human to mink, mutates, and reinfected humans. Also in Utah went from farmed minks to wild minks. It’s also been discovered in other animals too.
The Who article uses the proper terminology. Just because they use the common name doesn’t mean it’s not a fact. Most people just say Covid at this point.

SARS-CoV-2 mink-associated variant strain – Denmark

Since June 2020, 214 human cases of COVID-19 have been identified in Denmark with SARS-CoV-2 variants associated with farmed minks, including 12 cases with a unique variant, reported on 5 November.

www.who.int

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I'll have to check those articles tomorrow.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Bats, human, minks.

I'm living in a Stephen King movie.

 

[Saltwater60]

I'll have to check those articles tomorrow.

Honestly love to hear your thoughts on it. You seem to be in the know.
I’m sure there is a healthy bit of scare tactics going on. Hope this is one of them if not this could be bad.
The WHO article says what they are doing to verify this and the strains. Not sure where they are at with that.

 

[Defilade]

Fake news bullshit to keep the fear going. It's amazing how this shit just sprouts up out of the blue. lol

 

[prambo]

Honestly love to hear your thoughts on it. You seem to be in the know.
I’m sure there is a healthy bit of scare tactics going on. Hope this is one of them if not this could be bad.
The WHO article says what they are doing to verify this and the strains. Not sure where they are at with that.

@Saltwater60

I'll do this in small portions - lots of stuff going on, so it'll be in installments.

First, regarding the infection of mink - this is really not a surprise, since mink and ferrets are very closely related (Family Mustelidae) -

Wikistupidea is OK for this - Ferret - Wikipedia Mink - Wikipedia

Ferrets are often used as "model" animals for human respiratory viruses, for example the original SARS and influenza (this is in references on the Wiki page). They have also been used as a model for SARS-CoV-2/COVID - Infection and Rapid Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in Ferrets - PubMed

This is because the receptor for SARS-CoV-2 "spike" protein is the angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor

A number of publications show that the human and ferret ACE2 receptors are very similar, more so than human and mouse.

Structural and functional modelling of SARS-CoV-2 entry in animal models - PubMed

Identification of Ferret ACE2 and its Receptor Function for Sars-Coronavirus

A number of animals, including mink, have had their ACE2 receptor compared - Structural and functional modelling of SARS-CoV-2 entry in animal models - PubMed

So overall, minks acting as a "reservoir" host for SARS-CoV-2 is completely expected, given their close relationship with ferrets.

The point I would make here, is that this does NOT lend credence to the notion that this virus got into the human population from pangolins at the Wuhan "wet market".

Even PBS published this interview in which several scientists question whether was the real epicenter for SARS-CoV-2 (A year after virus appeared, Wuhan tells China's pandemic story).

This involved the "Bat Woman of Wuhan" - Shi Zhengli (Shi Zhengli - Wikipedia), as well as others known to have been, and continuing to perform, "gain-of-function" experiments. By definition, what was done with SARS-CoV-2 was a world-wide continuing "gain-of-function" experiment.

The evidence (heavily censored) that this was "built" at The Wuhan Institute of Virology is, IMHO after reading both papers twice, very strong. I've attached them to this post. The woman who was lead author on both is no slouch, regardless of the fact that the Wikistupiea page about her is structured as a hit piece - "...alleging that SARS-CoV-2 was made in a Chinese government laboratory have been widely disputed by the scientific community." Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia .

For example - Reviews of "Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route" · Rapid Reviews COVID-19 - To quote "...if the claims are not adequately substantiated, this work is defamatory, grossly negligent, and ethically dubious."

That phrase in and of itself is defamatory, and pretty much tells you the length people will go to suppress the true origins of SARS-CoV-2.

It is interesting that one of the "hit piece" reviews cited has Robert Gallo as a co-author. Gallo received a Nobel for the supposed link between HIV and AIDS. His co-awardee was Luc Montagnier (Luc Montagnier - Wikipedia), one of the first scientists to publicly state that he thought SARS-CoV-2 was "man-made" - The Coronavirus Is Man Made According to Luc Montagnier the Man Who Discovered HIV - Gilmore Health News.

Montagnier was hammered for saying that - A Nobel Laureate Said the New Coronavirus Was Made in a Lab. He's Wrong. - The Wire Science - this article is almost violent in it's condemnation of Montagnier.

This boil on the ass of science is discussed here - Case Study: Luc Montagnier and Robert Gallo - Academic Master

Gallo is a "butt buddy" of serial liar, master of back-tracking and Bill Gates personal ass-crack cleaner Anthony FauXi.

"Science", at least the way I learned how to do it, is not done this way.

 

[Saltwater60]

The articles were not saying this virus came from ferrets/mink. Essentially they are worried about the way it was transmitted from human to ferrets, the virus was able to mutate in the ferrets, then get passed back to humans.
From what you’re saying this isn’t a surprise since they are used as virus test subjects for human respiratory virus research.
I guess we will see where this research leads.

 

[prambo]

The articles were not saying this virus came from ferrets/mink. Essentially they are worried about the way it was transmitted from human to ferrets, the virus was able to mutate in the ferrets, then get passed back to humans.
From what you’re saying this isn’t a surprise since they are used as virus test subjects for human respiratory virus research.
I guess we will see where this research leads.

Yes, you're correct. I did realize that, but transmission either way is not surprising.

Mutation is also expected, especially in +strand RNA viruses like coronavirus.

When replicating in mink, which the virus would do after entering epithelial cells, mutations would still occur.

The BBC article was by far the most informative - to quote "Mutations in some mink-related strains involve the spike protein of the virus, which is targeted by some vaccines being developed."

That is somewhat concerning, but if such mutations in the spike protein occur in mink, proliferate and spread through a population, one would expect that a species-specific selection towards those binding to the mink ACE2 receptor would be favored.

The ferret and mink ACE2 receptors are very similar to humans, but not identical. One would expect spike protein mutations occurring in mink would favor improved binding to mink ACE2 and increased infectivity, but not necessarily increased virulence.

 

[Saltwater60]

With these MRNA vaccines correct me if I’m wrong but the mutations are not supposed to effect the efficacy correct? Meaning of the virus mutates the vaccine should still work at states 95%. Seems they are backpedaling or questioning this? More scare tactics or are they serious here?

 

[prambo]

With these MRNA vaccines correct me if I’m wrong but the mutations are not supposed to effect the efficacy correct? Meaning of the virus mutates the vaccine should still work at states 95%. Seems they are backpedaling or questioning this? More scare tactics or are they serious here?

That's a good question.

One would assume that the mRNA codes for the sequence desired - in this case focused on the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2.

If, in fact, amino acid mutations occur in the spike protein, and don't effect binding to the receptor, then there might be a problem. An antibody binds to an array of about 7-12 amino acids (called an "epitope"), usually those that are all in a row - a "linear epitope". It is possible to have antibodies to amino acid sequences that are not linear, but are near to each other in the final structure - a "conformational epitope.

Not all amino acid sequences give an antibody, or T-cell, response...thus, certain changes could reduce the effectiveness of even an mRNA vaccine which codes for only one sequence.

From what I've dug up, there were 2 candidates considered - see the pdf attached to this post - see the figure on page 2.

First is a modified whole spike protein that supposedly forms natural trimers.

And secondly, mRNA that just codes for the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the the spike protein - that portion actually binding to the human ACE2 receptor on epithelial cells. This uses some manipulation - they put a "foldon motif" on the end of the sequence to get it to form the natural RBD as it would be on the virus - a unit of 3 identical spike proteins twisted together - a "trimer".

To me, this "foldon motif" is problematic. It derives from a T4 "bacteriophage", which is essentially a virus of certain bacteria. It is neither a part of the natural coronavirus nor is it a human protein (Foldon, the natural trimerization domain of T4 fibritin, dissociates into a monomeric A-state form containing a stable beta-hairpin: atomic details of trimer dissociation and local beta-hairpin stability from residual dipolar couplings - PubMed).

To honest, I've not heard of it until I just read about it.

There are some potential problems with the continued effectiveness of the mRNA vaccine. As your own research showed in the mink work, a mutation at the amino acid level did occur in the spike protein while in mink. Amino acid changes are the only ones that "count" in an immune response - changes in some nucleic acid bases don't matter unless they result in amino acid changes.

What is possible is that due to the high mutation rate of coronaviruses you will get what is called "antigenic drift" - an "antigen" being whatever antibodies or immune cells "see". If the antigens in a protein target change over time, some of the effectiveness would be lost unless the vaccine is changed, just like the flu vaccine is "tuned up" every year. This might also explain why there is only 1 effective coronavirus vaccine - to a dog GI virus. Many have tried to develop a vaccine for the original SARS-CoV and there has been no success - maybe this is due to antigenic\ drift, or perhaps coronaviruses evade the immune response in other ways.

Assuming the mRNA vaccine works, the following pic shows pretty much how it should work in your cells...found in this article (Explained: a visual guide to how the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine works)

 

[Acer-m14]

i visit my friends house every weekend and handle the 3 ferrets , 4 dogs , 4 sheep , 10 goats , say hello to the 3 cows .. wave at the python snake when he is awake .. he just attacked a rat yesterday .. didnt take 20 seconds .. he was hungry .. oh and the 8 bunny rabbits ..

were all doing fine ... none of the animals were a mask cept one of the ferrets ..

meet taz .. not really him but the look is the same

 

[Saltwater60]

That's a good question.

One would assume that the mRNA codes for the sequence desired - in this case focused on the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2.

If, in fact, amino acid mutations occur in the spike protein, and don't effect binding to the receptor, then there might be a problem. An antibody binds to an array of about 7-12 amino acids (called an "epitope"), usually those that are all in a row - a "linear epitope". It is possible to have antibodies to amino acid sequences that are not linear, but are near to each other in the final structure - a "conformational epitope.

Not all amino acid sequences give an antibody, or T-cell, response...thus, certain changes could reduce the effectiveness of even an mRNA vaccine which codes for only one sequence.

From what I've dug up, there were 2 candidates considered - see the pdf attached to this post - see the figure on page 2.

First is a modified whole spike protein that supposedly forms natural trimers.

And secondly, mRNA that just codes for the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the the spike protein - that portion actually binding to the human ACE2 receptor on epithelial cells. This uses some manipulation - they put a "foldon motif" on the end of the sequence to get it to form the natural RBD as it would be on the virus - a unit of 3 identical spike proteins twisted together - a "trimer".

To me, this "foldon motif" is problematic. It derives from a T4 "bacteriophage", which is essentially a virus of certain bacteria. It is neither a part of the natural coronavirus nor is it a human protein (Foldon, the natural trimerization domain of T4 fibritin, dissociates into a monomeric A-state form containing a stable beta-hairpin: atomic details of trimer dissociation and local beta-hairpin stability from residual dipolar couplings - PubMed).

To honest, I've not heard of it until I just read about it.

There are some potential problems with the continued effectiveness of the mRNA vaccine. As your own research showed in the mink work, a mutation at the amino acid level did occur in the spike protein while in mink. Amino acid changes are the only ones that "count" in an immune response - changes in some nucleic acid bases don't matter unless they result in amino acid changes.

What is possible is that due to the high mutation rate of coronaviruses you will get what is called "antigenic drift" - an "antigen" being whatever antibodies or immune cells "see". If the antigens in a protein target change over time, some of the effectiveness would be lost unless the vaccine is changed, just like the flu vaccine is "tuned up" every year. This might also explain why there is only 1 effective coronavirus vaccine - to a dog GI virus. Many have tried to develop a vaccine for the original SARS-CoV and there has been no success - maybe this is due to antigenic\ drift, or perhaps coronaviruses evade the immune response in other ways.

Assuming the mRNA vaccine works, the following pic shows pretty much how it should work in your cells...found in this article (Explained: a visual guide to how the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine works)

View attachment 102163

Thanks and that answers my question of why if these MNRA vaccines are so wonderful and have been around for so long why haven’t we not used them with the regular seasonal flu. Of course I get the well more people are dying from Covid and my response is yes this year but add all the 10 years together we’ve had these vaccines and more have died from the seasonal flu. Also think about the economical impact and loss of revenue.
Bottom line just as I thought these vaccines are not as good as they say and are not going to be a one and done over forever like they were leading us to believe.
Seriously thanks for the info and analysis!!

Makes me wonder if they know this is happening now and that’s why they are going with the change in vaccine regiment. Now UK is saying give two shots but doesn’t matter if it’s Pfizer or ModernA and now usa is thinking about just giving one shot that reaches 80-90% effectiveness to just get more people vaccinated. Makes sense if the virus is mutating and they know another shot will need to be developed.