Marcy Correction Guards on video released by Jumbo James brutalizing cuffed prisoner who later died.

Darth

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stokes said:
Some drugs should not be legal. Didnt Portland or one of those lib cities out west legalize or actually turn a blind eye to the use and actually supply hypes and a "safe place" to use it? Didnt work out too well. A lot of people make the "if alcohol is legal, why not all drugs" argument, but alcohol and crack and heroin are not even close.
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The drugs aren't close.

But the argument that it is immoral to remove someone's right to put whatever they want into their own bodies remains no less valid.

I work in these places and have yet to hear a valid argument for prohibition.

I've heard, well everyone, conflate things, but never heard a valid reason why the government has any place telling people what they can put in their own bodies.

And other victimless crimes.
 
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kev74

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This will all be fixed when they finish closing all the prisons and set all these fine, upstanding, misunderstood individuals free. Then the guards won't have any one to mistreat.
 
spat

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stokes said:
Some drugs should not be legal. Didnt Portland or one of those lib cities out west legalize or actually turn a blind eye to the use and actually supply hypes and a "safe place" to use it? Didnt work out too well. A lot of people make the "if alcohol is legal, why not all drugs" argument, but alcohol and crack and heroin are not even close.
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They did it the lib way, which pretty much guarantees a disaster.

You need to legalize it all the way. No special taxes that keep a black market or anything.

You also can't do it at the city or state level. Needs to be fully legal.

Make all the drug dealers compete with Walmart and Pfizer. They'll all be out of business in months, and they will take 90% of the organized crime with them.

Then you need to let the junkies OD if that's what they want. That problem solves itself if you let it run it's natural course.

Sure, there will be some initial pain, but let it happen and things will work themselves out.


So, what do you think will happen when the dealers are trying to compete with megacorporations ?
 
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stokes said:
Some drugs should not be legal. Didnt Portland or one of those lib cities out west legalize or actually turn a blind eye to the use and actually supply hypes and a "safe place" to use it? Didnt work out too well. A lot of people make the "if alcohol is legal, why not all drugs" argument, but alcohol and crack and heroin are not even close.
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FWIW, alcohol has killed more people,(directly or indirectly), and ruined more lifes/families than any other drugs, not even close. But I’m sure that’s the case because of the sheer amount of use and that it’s “socially accepted”
 
spat

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REF said:
FWIW, alcohol has killed more people,(directly or indirectly), and ruined more lifes/families than any other drugs, not even close. But I’m sure that’s the case because of the sheer amount of use and that it’s “socially accepted”
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We did try to outlaw it.

Practically invented organized crime in the process.

Figured that out and reversed course in a decade.

We used to be a lot smarter about things.
 
stokes

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REF said:
FWIW, alcohol has killed more people,(directly or indirectly), and ruined more lifes/families than any other drugs, not even close. But I’m sure that’s the case because of the sheer amount of use and that it’s “socially accepted”
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And cars have probably killed more people than alcohol. There are a lot of functional alcoholics, cant say the same about crack or heroin. And that is why alcohol is "socially accepted" and legal.
 
spat

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stokes said:
And cars have probably killed more people than alcohol. There are a lot of functional alcoholics, cant say the same about crack or heroin. And that is why alcohol is "socially accepted" and legal.
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Half of Wallstreet was on cocaine in the 80s though, and those guys were pretty functional.

It's almost like people with train wrecks for lives seek out hard drugs and not the other way around.
 
stokes

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spat said:
Half of Wallstreet was on cocaine in the 80s though, and those guys were pretty functional.
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World of difference between cocaine and crack. Band I played in back in the 80's and 90's had a weekly gig in a bar down near Wall St. I can tell you. most of those coke heads were barely functional and most ended up in rehab over and over. Thats not particularly functional.
 
spat

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stokes said:
World of difference between cocaine and crack. Band I played in back in the 80's and 90's had a weekly gig in a bar down near Wall St. I can tell you. most of those coke heads were barely functional and most ended up in rehab over and over. Thats not particularly functional.
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There's lots of people who are barely functional without illegal drugs too. That doesn't prove much.

And what pharmaceutically do you think the difference is between crack and cocaine ?

The difference in outcomes between them just proves it's not the chemical that's causing the problems.
 
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spat said:
We did try to outlaw it.

Practically invented organized crime in the process.

Figured that out and reversed course in a decade.

We used to be a lot smarter about things.
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I am certain if it was still outlawed , there would be nowhere near the amount of alcohol related deaths as there are now. Just more criminals like you stated. And if we legalized hard drugs like heroin, crack , fentanyl, etc., the number of drug related deaths would eclipse alcohol related deaths. They are mutually exclusive. With both, you either legalize them and deal with more deaths, or keep them illegal and deal with enforcing the laws, AKA, “more criminals”. The only reason one is legal is because of what I said before, “socially accepted “. To me , they are both just as harmful and addictive when abused
 
GOPerfect

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I am all for legalizing these drugs. I really do.

There would need to be conditions though.

No emergency crews when they OD. No Narcan administration from LE or medical teams.

No social service programs fro them.

No rehab paid for by the people. No drug court when they break the laws to feed their habit.

The drug problem would go nearly away if we left these people to their choices.
 
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stokes said:
And cars have probably killed more people than alcohol. There are a lot of functional alcoholics, cant say the same about crack or heroin. And that is why alcohol is "socially accepted" and legal.
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To be clear , I am not condoning legalizing hard narcotics. I’m dead set against it. In fact, I am pissed off that NY legalized marijuana. I’m sick of smelling it and it gives impressionable minds the wrong idea. My point was if you legalize hard drugs , like alcohol, you’ll have more deaths from it. And I’m sure a substantial amount of the automobile deaths are alcohol related
 
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GOPerfect said:
I am all for legalizing these drugs. I really do.

There would need to be conditions though.

No emergency crews when they OD. No Narcan administration from LE or medical teams.

No social service programs fro them.

No rehab paid for by the people. No drug court when they break the laws to feed their habit.

The drug problem would go nearly away if we left these people to their choices.
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I totally agree …… to an extent. I just think about the kids. The young, dumb , gullible minds
 
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GOPerfect said:
I am all for legalizing these drugs. I really do.

There would need to be conditions though.

No emergency crews when they OD. No Narcan administration from LE or medical teams.

No social service programs fro them.

No rehab paid for by the people. No drug court when they break the laws to feed their habit.

The drug problem would go nearly away if we left these people to their choices.
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And no fucking public assistance
 
tirwin1

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GOPerfect said:
I am all for legalizing these drugs. I really do.

There would need to be conditions though.

No emergency crews when they OD. No Narcan administration from LE or medical teams.

No social service programs fro them.

No rehab paid for by the people. No drug court when they break the laws to feed their habit.

The drug problem would go nearly away if we left these people to their choices.
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I agree that if drugs are legalized your conditions should be implemented. I disagree the conditions would make the drug problem go nearly away.

We have all kinds of problems when drugs are illegal. I don't know why we would have fewer problems if they were legal. I understand legalization would hurt the mob, mafia, cartels or whoever controls distribution currently. I'm talking about the impact on users. I don't see how we would have fewer people on drugs or fewer problems with addiction.
 
GOPerfect

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tirwin1 said:
I agree that if drugs are legalized your conditions should be implemented. I disagree the conditions would make the drug problem go nearly away.

We have all kinds of problems when drugs are illegal. I don't know why we would have fewer problems if they were legal. I understand legalization would hurt the mob, mafia, cartels or whoever controls distribution currently. I'm talking about the impact on users. I don't see how we would have fewer people on drugs or fewer problems with addiction.
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I think it would diminish due to fatal overdoses..... Think of how many of these people are saved by LE and EMT's/
 
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How did the "Oxy" pandemic happen again?
Doctors
Do people think that politicians, judges, lawyers, doctors, Cops, anyone not under annual and random drug testing are not using drugs?
We are talking people, they will do anything.
 
spat

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stokes said:
Did you grow up under a rock or something? You dont know the difference? Coke is water soluable and the crack is not. The crack has to be smoked and is absorbed into the blood stream much faster and is far more addictive.
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They're both cocaine.

It's the same drug.

You're talking about a difference of delivery method is all. The pharmaceutical effect is the same because it's the same drug.

Just like nicotine is nicotine whether it comes in a cigarette or a patch or a piece of gum.
 
spat

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tirwin1 said:
I agree that if drugs are legalized your conditions should be implemented. I disagree the conditions would make the drug problem go nearly away.

We have all kinds of problems when drugs are illegal. I don't know why we would have fewer problems if they were legal. I understand legalization would hurt the mob, mafia, cartels or whoever controls distribution currently. I'm talking about the impact on users. I don't see how we would have fewer people on drugs or fewer problems with addiction.
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I DGAF about the junkie's problems. They made their bed they can lie in it.

We just need to decide to let then make bad choices and then not hold taxpayers responsible for fixing them.

Problem solved.
 
GOPerfect

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spat said:
They're both cocaine.

It's the same drug.

You're talking about a difference of delivery method is all. The pharmaceutical effect is the same because it's the same drug.

Just like nicotine is nicotine whether it comes in a cigarette or a patch or a piece of gum.
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This is not true at all. Not even close. While both crack and cocaine are derived from the same coca plant and have similar effects, they differ in their chemical composition and method of preparation.

Cocaine is a white powder that comes from the dried leaves of the coca plant, which is found in South America. Crack cocaine is a form of the drug that gives a very quick, intense high. Crack is made by cooking cocaine powder with baking soda, then breaking it into small pieces called rocks.
 
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