Lets talk Red Dots on handguns

MikeyCNY · Nov 17, 2024

I haven't used this particular site (I've used Ibex Armament, Shop Black Rifle, and Modern Warriors for my Holosun optics over the years) - but this has a good breakdown of the different optics (do quote by e-mail for Black Friday MAP pricing)

Holosun | AA Armament

Green vs Red is a personal decision that I've posted out before. Having tried both, any future optics I get will be RED, as I did not perceive the green to be that much clearer to my eyes. I use prescription safety glasses at the range, but it's also clear enough to me un-aided (slight astigmatism) to use in emergencies. For roughly $100 less the red is perfectly usable to me. (I've compared 507k red and green, and now EPS Carry in green against EPS in red)

Supposedly under night vision the green dot is too bright even at lowest setting, no personal experience there.

For reticle options - for a pistol I think a dot is just fine, but on my shotgun I'm using the EPS Red MRS (Multi Reticle System) so it has circle+dot, also has solar backup if that's important to you. According to the site above there's about a $70 savings going with regular dot and no solar.

Podmonkey · Nov 17, 2024

MikeyCNY said:
Love my Blackpoint Tactical holsters - though I'm waiting for Black Friday deals, probably getting a T-Rex Ragnarok for my M&P w/ TLr7 HL-X. I also picked up the new TLR7-sub HL-X for my 365XL but that means all new holster as well... sigh... that holster is usually JM Custom Kydex AIWB or Blackpoint Tactical IWB. (Since I've lost weight I prefer AIWB, but in summer months in a t-shirt sometimes it still prints too much for my liking)

The T-Rex Ragnarok is an excellent holster, I have one for my G19. I do think it's better suited for range or competition use, or open carry situations but that might just because I have it on a Tech Mount which has it sticking out from tge belt a bit.

Podmonkey · Nov 17, 2024

MikeyCNY said:
I haven't used this particular site (I've used Ibex Armament, Shop Black Rifle, and Modern Warriors for my Holosun optics over the years) - but this has a good breakdown of the different optics (do quote by e-mail for Black Friday MAP pricing)

Holosun | AA Armament

Green vs Red is a personal decision that I've posted out before. Having tried both, any future optics I get will be RED, as I did not perceive the green to be that much clearer to my eyes. I use prescription safety glasses at the range, but it's also clear enough to me un-aided (slight astigmatism) to use in emergencies. For roughly $100 less the red is perfectly usable to me. (I've compared 507k red and green, and now EPS Carry in green against EPS in red)

Supposedly under night vision the green dot is too bright even at lowest setting, no personal experience there.

For reticle options - for a pistol I think a dot is just fine, but on my shotgun I'm using the EPS Red MRS (Multi Reticle System) so it has circle+dot, also has solar backup if that's important to you. According to the site above there's about a $70 savings going with regular dot and no solar.

I think I'm just gonna purchase from my LGS so whichever model EPS they have available. The ones on display were all the solar ones and they are asking $395 for those.
Given my druthers I'd prefer without the solar and I'm thinking of trying a green dot. I really like a green fiber optic front post so maybe I'd loke a green dot as well. If all they have is red that's fine. There is also the dot size to consider. I think the 6 moa dot would ve better for a speedster pistol like the Carry Comp.

docnsx01 · Nov 17, 2024

Podmonkey said:
The T-Rex Ragnarok is an excellent holster, I have one for my G19. I do think it's better suited for range or competition use, or open carry situations but that might just because I have it on a Tech Mount which has it sticking out from tge belt a bit.

sent you a direct message !

docnsx01 · Nov 17, 2024

I went the green MRS EPS carry on my EDC only to have apples to apples , the gentlemen I found online was very competitive in pricing wiht no tax and no shipping plus he included appropriate screws to direct mount to my p365" and the top one is on my hkcc9 but I dont have holster yet but love the firearm
I also added 20 dollar optic guard to all of them to protect optic and also helps secure the battery tray screw from dislodging I searched for discount code and one is carbon fiber to match the holster ..

Holosun® EPS Carry Scope Cover by OpticGard

Compatible Models EPS CARRY Red MRS EPS CARRY Green MRS EPS CARRY Red 6 EPS CARRY Green 6 The OpticGard Scope cover for the Holosun® EPS Carry offers protection against stray bullet casings and scratches. The intelligent cut allows the cover to fit most rear and suppressor sights. It also...

opticgard.com

Podmonkey · Nov 18, 2024

I ended up getting an adapter plate from a company called DPP, a quick search revealed no real complaints and word is that the DPP Titanium plate is thin enough to just allow for co-witness on standard height sights. Also a litter cheaper at $40. Oh I have settled on the EPS, seems like one of tye best available pistol red dots on the market currently. I hope Holosun has a plan for domestic production soon what with Trump's proposed tariffs. The reputation and quality of Holosun products are such that the market would bear a reasonable price increase to cover the labor. With Holosun's expertise in design and materials they have the opportunity to bring high end reflex sight production to this nation and in turn become the default option for such and sales would increase considerably.

Podmonkey · Nov 19, 2024

The DPP plate while thin does not allow for a co-witness with these sights.
In fact even with a direct mount I don't think I'd be able to see more than the very top edge of the irons. I shoot the gun for awhile while I decided if I really want a co-witness. If I do I'll get some plain black irons.

docnsx01 · Nov 19, 2024

Podmonkey said:
View attachment 250436
The DPP plate while thin does not allow for a co-witness with these sights.
In fact even with a direct mount I don't think I'd be able to see more than the very top edge of the irons. I shoot the gun for awhile while I decided if I really want a co-witness. If I do I'll get some plain black irons.

very nice and i can appreciate the frustration , i know others have gotten taller sights

Podmonkey · Nov 19, 2024

docnsx01 said:
very nice and i can appreciate the frustration , i know others have gotten taller sights

Thing is I don't want an absolute co-witness, lower 1/3 at most.

Podmonkey · Nov 19, 2024

Y'know, I have been operating under the assumption that the EPS Carry was intended for use on slimline guns like P365, Shield, G43 ect, and that the wider EPS was meant for full width double stack guns. Observing tge way the EPS overhangs the top contour of the Carry Comp's slide I'm wondering if people run the EPS Carry on double stack guns too?
I wonder if I shouldn't have gone that route. It doesn't bother me from a looks perspective, most red dots sit thusly on most guns but since I intend to carry this M&P maybe I should have gotten the narrower version? That said I don't think it will matter much, the EPS as it is now is not wider than the widest portion of the slide so I doubt it would affect carryability.

docnsx01 · Nov 20, 2024

Podmonkey said:
Y'know, I have been operating under the assumption that the EPS Carry was intended for use on slimline guns like P365, Shield, G43 ect, and that the wider EPS was meant for full width double stack guns. Observing tge way the EPS overhangs the top contour of the Carry Comp's slide I'm wondering if people run the EPS Carry on double stack guns too?
I wonder if I shouldn't have gone that route. It doesn't bother me from a looks perspective, most red dots sit thusly on most guns but since I intend to carry this M&P maybe I should have gotten the narrower version? That said I don't think it will matter much, the EPS as it is now is not wider than the widest portion of the slide so I doubt it would affect carryability.

i think the carry is specifically like you said for more of the micro subcompacts to have less overhang and lead to more comfort during concealment , but if you shoot ok with it and hit the intended target that’s all that matters

Bustedknees · Nov 20, 2024

This thread is not the same without Ed's throw downs..

He did seem to have good knowledge though.

Podmonkey · Nov 20, 2024

Bustedknees said:
This thread is not the same without Ed's throw downs..
He did seem to have good knowledge though.

I wish he was here to see my new rig, I think he'd really dig it. Especially once I get the TRL-7 HL-X on.
He was always one for the latest and greatest tech.

MikeyCNY · Nov 20, 2024

Podmonkey said:
Y'know, I have been operating under the assumption that the EPS Carry was intended for use on slimline guns like P365, Shield, G43 ect, and that the wider EPS was meant for full width double stack guns. Observing tge way the EPS overhangs the top contour of the Carry Comp's slide I'm wondering if people run the EPS Carry on double stack guns too?
I wonder if I shouldn't have gone that route. It doesn't bother me from a looks perspective, most red dots sit thusly on most guns but since I intend to carry this M&P maybe I should have gotten the narrower version? That said I don't think it will matter much, the EPS as it is now is not wider than the widest portion of the slide so I doubt it would affect carryability.

This is my M&P 2.0 Compact Optics Ready ('suppressor height' sights, not a fan) with 509t and TLR-7 HL-X mounted; the optic does overhand the sides slightly (technically it's the CH plate) -

It's so slight I barely notice it. This is a first gen 509t so the fish eye and tinting is rather poor... I'm thinking about swapping with the EPS I have on my Beretta A300 but then I'd need another plate... I also have another 2.0 Compact with no slide cut that I could have sent in somewhere, but then that's another optic to buy!

Podmonkey · Nov 20, 2024

MikeyCNY said:
This is my M&P 2.0 Compact Optics Ready ('suppressor height' sights, not a fan) with 509t and TLR-7 HL-X mounted; the optic does overhand the sides slightly (technically it's the CH plate) -

View attachment 250485

It's so slight I barely notice it. This is a first gen 509t so the fish eye and tinting is rather poor... I'm thinking about swapping with the EPS I have on my Beretta A300 but then I'd need another plate... I also have another 2.0 Compact with no slide cut that I could have sent in somewhere, but then that's another optic to buy!

Nice piece. I have been on the fence about getting an M&P 2.0 for some time and the Carry Comp finally pushed me over. The Carry Comp is just a gussied up 2.0 in the end.
The EPS seems like a very nice optic, fully enclosed without having what seems like a mailbox atop the slide and the view through the glass is very flat with minimal tint.
My delima with it is that as you can see it sits low on the slide, the top of the rear iron is flush with the rear deck of the EPS.
I am concerned that if I put suppressor height irons on the will be taking up way too much of the window. I wonder if it is really even necessary to co-witness irons on a quality durable optic. Or CH Precision offers a milling service where the modify the factory CORE cut to a direct mount for Holosun K footprint.
I wonder if that would put the EPS just low enough for a slight co-witness with the factory irons. Or maybe I should find a thicker plate to raise the optic up for tall sights co-witness. In that case I should have gone with a bigger optic, the whole point of the EPS is for direct mounting for co-witness of low height sights.
I think I will take the optic off, remove the plate and just sit the EPS directly in the slide cut to see what kind of sight picture that would give then make my decision from there.

Also apparently the TRL-7 HL-X I ordered is sitting at the shop waiting for me.

*EDIT* After looking at the CH Precision Site I notice the M&P cut modification is specifically for the Shield, not the M&P 2.0.
I'm gonna see of there are sights that are slightly taller than average but not necessarily "suppressor height".
I'll also busy out some dimensions and measurements to see what we are working with.

togmaster · Nov 21, 2024

People will have a lot of different opinions on this but the way I look at it if you have a good quality optic you really don't need irons for civilian use. But if you feel you need back up sights have the rear iron placed in front of the optic. I got into the optic game early so all my carry guns are direct milled with the rear dove tail cut in front of the optic. This allows the use of suppressor height sights without blocking the optic window.

MikeyCNY · Nov 21, 2024

Looks like limited quantities (and $1800 price tag), but importer B&T is custom milling Glock 19s and ACRO P2s for a super-low no-plate dot profile -

If that includes pistol and dot it's not terrible but still.. (also apparently has threaded barrel)

Podmonkey · Nov 21, 2024

I found the info I was looking for!

supressor-height-sights-with-holosun-red-dots-co-witness.jpg

How Red Dot Optics Co-Witness with Suppressor Height Sights

If you have a pistol with suppressor height sights and are wondering how different Holosun optics will co-witness then we believe this guide will help you. For this guide we have a customers Smith & Wesson M&P 2.0 with suppressor height sights and are testing the Holosun SCS-MP2, 507C, or EPS to...

freedomgorilla.com

That sight picture is acceptable to me. Dawson precision has a variety of suitable sets including a plain black set which I think would be my preference. I would rather have the irons co-witnessed for a variety of reasons, optics can fail, become damaged, in a defensive situation rapid movement could cause you to lose your dot index, ect.

@togmaster I would also prefer to have the rear iron mounted ahead of the optic. Unfortunately I am dealing with an "Optics ready" model and the decision of what goes where was made for me by the manufacturer.

Brawny71 · Nov 21, 2024

Huge fan of the Delta Point Pro and SRO's.

Podmonkey · Nov 23, 2024

So I just found out the manufacturer of the sights on the Carry Comp, Night Fision, offers not one but TWO different heights of sights for use with red dots. Why S&W did not include taller sights to begin with is beyond me. The intermediate height will suit my needs perfectly.
A set costs about $100 which is slightly cheaper than other manufacturer's similar model sights.

togmaster · Nov 23, 2024

Podmonkey said:
So I just found out the manufacturer of the sights on the Carry Comp, Night Fision, offers not one but TWO different heights of sights for use with red dots. Why S&W did not include taller sights to begin with is beyond me. The intermediate height will suit my needs perfectly.
A set costs about $100 which is slightly cheaper than other manufacturer's similar model sights.

Night Fision is good to go. I had them on my CZ's before I switched to dots.

Podmonkey · Nov 23, 2024

togmaster said:
Night Fision is good to go. I had them on my CZ's before I switched to dots.

I've never heard of them before. I get the impression they have been operating for a long time as an OEM supplier that has recently decided to market their wares direct to the public as well.
They seem to have a good variety of sights and I appreciate that they offer multiple heights for use with different types of optics. For the Carry Comp I will get the intermediate height version of what came on the gun from the factory.
I also thinks at some point I will get some of their 2 dot sights for my Shield which I will not be putting a red dot on.

Podmonkey · Nov 23, 2024

Brawny71 said:
Huge fan of the Delta Point Pro and SRO's.

Those are for competition and/or range use though, which is fine. For a carry gun I think there are more suitable options, not to say you couldn't CC a fun with these optics on rather that they are sub optimal for that purpose.
As I play around with it and learn more about it I really think the Holosun EPS and EPS Carry are they best CCW optics available. The EPS has a nice sharp dot, decent size window, is enclosed and is nevertheless very compact. I'm glad I went with it, I don't think I could have done better honestly.
On the other hand the SRO seems like a fantastic option for any kind of competition/Target work. If I ever get around to putting a red dot on my Volquartsen pimped Ruger Mk IV the SRO will be at the top of the list.

Podmonkey · Dec 8, 2024

With around 1,500 rounds down range through my new setup I think it's safe to say the DPP Titanium adapter plate is GTG. The supplied screws were the proper length and everything has held together firmly, no loss of screw torque.
The Holosun EPS is also a great optic, I really like how lo-pro Holosun managed to make a closed emitter optic.

MikeyCNY · Jan 7, 2025

Primary Arms announced a new Made-in-Texas enclosed red dot -

Going to be on the expensive side, MSRP of $700 to 750.. sale prices maybe closer to $600, so slightly above ACRO territory. But it does look promising, especially if you want MiUSA optic!

Defilade · Jan 8, 2025

New Aimpoint too.

Bustedknees · Apr 2, 2025

A very inexpensive 1911 with newer grips but the included Perry optic built with tiny ass sheetrock screws had to go. Found this Owl green 3 moa dot on Amazon for $99. Hopefully it stays put on the plate that has very short post in all corners. Nobody offers a replacement short of spending $300 on a in house custom .

Lets talk Red Dots on handguns

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6.5 Creedmoor

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6.5 Creedmoor

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.45 acp

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.450/400 Nitro Ex

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.577 Tyrannosaur.

.577 Tyrannosaur.

6.5 Creedmoor

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