Loading your own carry / self defense ammo

Depick

Depick

.308 Win
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
8,517
Location
Erie County
Any opinions on loading and carrying your own self defense ammo?

I’m kinda curious of if this could be used against you legally if you had to use your firearm in a defensive situation.
 
tirwin1

tirwin1

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
15,863
Reaction score
43,666
Location
rochester
When I first joined a gun range we had to go through orientation on the range and show some very small level of knowledge about our gun. At the orientation one of the members said that if you were to get involved in a self defense shooting there would be lawsuits filed against:

1) You
2) the gun manufacturer
3) the store you purchased the gun from

He said if you modified the pistol in any meaningful way (trigger in particular) the lawyers would paint you as some sort of death seeking rambo and look to crucify you at trial. He also said this would get the manufacturer and store off the hook because you took a standard item and made it into a more lethal instrument. He didn't mention anything specifically about ammo that I recall but I expect the same concept applies. Modifying your pistol or making your own ammo will be used against you at trial.

Is he correct? I'm not a lawyer but my guess would be he's more right than not. The defense lawyers for the manufacturer and the store would love to argue that you modified their perfectly legal tool into an innocent-slaughtering instrument of death and make you the sole defendant.

Oddly enough the recommendation for ammo was just like wirehairfan said - use hollow point ammo since that is much less likely to overpenetrate. It will do more damage but you can argue that you were only looking to prevent collateral damage to others.
 
Depick

Depick

.308 Win
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
8,517
Location
Erie County
I’ve been carrying Federal HST for years but I like to cycle my carry out after a couple of months.

Thought I could make my own but wasn’t sure if it was worth the risk.
 
FP1201

FP1201

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,246
Reaction score
8,816
Location
Adams, NY
Handloads/Reloads are to Play, FACTORY Ammo is to make them pay.
Decades back I believe it was Ayoob that admonished that the use of non-factory ammunition could be used against you in Court, and face it, if you shoot someone, justified on its face or not, you will be going to Court, of for nothing else that the Grand Jury to find no Bill....nothing like pulling the trigger on a critical shot to find out the ammo your cheap-ass made didn't work.
 
Jmac00

Jmac00

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
18,641
Reaction score
50,989
Location
somewhere in America
I have been reloading for 20+YEARS. I have been a IPSC shooter for years as well. I stopped IPSC shooting when I sold all my reloading equipment to my BIL, 5 years ago and moved out of NY. I carry my own reloads for years. In 20 plus years of reloading I had ONE.........THATS RIGHT, ONE miss fire.
I am supremely confident in my ammo. However, my EDC gun has factory Hydro-shok's, all my other firearms have my reloads
 
repete

repete

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,966
Reaction score
8,921
Location
Rochester NY
FP1201 said:
Handloads/Reloads are to Play, FACTORY Ammo is to make them pay.
Decades back I believe it was Ayoob that admonished that the use of non-factory ammunition could be used against you in Court, and face it, if you shoot someone, justified on its face or not, you will be going to Court, of for nothing else that the Grand Jury to find no Bill....nothing like pulling the trigger on a critical shot to find out the ammo your cheap-ass made didn't work.
Click to expand...
Yes, Ayoob has talked about it at length, but never shown any proof.
 
Tisto

Tisto

.308 Win
Messages
3,621
Reaction score
6,074
Location
Tonawanda
Having loaded tens of thousands of rounds in my lifetime, I can honestly say that I have had only a few rounds fail to go boom. One batch had a few because part of the press got out of adjustment and I didn't notice soon enough. That, however, is often enough to convince me that only factory ammo should be used for defensive carry. Don't take even the smallest chances when your life is at stake. The relatively common failure of rimfire ammunition is also why it should never be relied upon for defense.

Now, when shit has hit the fan, the world is grinding to a halt and handloads are all you have, that's another story. Until then, stick with proven factory ammo in your carry gun.

I'm partial to Speer Gold Dot ammo in most of my carry guns, but find what works for you and your gun.
 
Podmonkey

Podmonkey

.577 Tyrannosaur.
U.S. Military
Messages
21,298
Reaction score
29,627
Location
Cambria co. PA
Does defensive ammo have sealant on the bullets? For serious use type ammo I like sealed primers and bullets for better resistance against moisture and ideally crimped primers as well. If a hand loader were willing/able to make these type provisions then go for it I say. It's not like modern manufacturing QC is very good there days.
 
dsdmmat

dsdmmat

Donut Master
Moderator
Messages
11,120
Reaction score
25,100
Location
Alpha Quadrant, Sector 001
Even if it is a good shoot you are likely going to be sued in civil court for wrongful death. The standards of evidence in civil court are far less stringent than in criminal court.

If you are in bear country carrying hand loads is not uncommon so if you shoot someone in self defense you can say you were carrying bear loads for defense in case of bear attack. This would take the lawyers argument away. You expected to defend yourself from bears not two legged vermin.
If you are carrying in two legged vermin country. Carry hand loads at your own peril.
 
Depick

Depick

.308 Win
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
8,517
Location
Erie County
Well after all the input and YouTube videos you all have convinced me it is not worth the risk.
 
thughes

thughes

.44 mag
Messages
848
Reaction score
2,385
Location
Your Mom's house
Best advice I've received is to find out what brand and type ammo the local PD carry, and use that. Apparently it may be an advantage should you have to deal with the court system due to a self defense situation.
 
dwa12479

dwa12479

.338 Win Mag
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
14,203
Location
Dark Side of the Moon
thughes said:
Best advice I've received is to find out what brand and type ammo the local PD carry, and use that. Apparently it may be an advantage should you have to deal with the court system due to a self defense situation.
Click to expand...
Chris Fry used to say that too when he was doing MDTS classes
 
dwa12479

dwa12479

.338 Win Mag
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
14,203
Location
Dark Side of the Moon
Jmac00 said:
I have been reloading for 20+YEARS. I have been a IPSC shooter for years as well. I stopped IPSC shooting when I sold all my reloading equipment to my BIL, 5 years ago and moved out of NY. I carry my own reloads for years. In 20 plus years of reloading I had ONE.........THATS RIGHT, ONE miss fire.
I am supremely confident in my ammo. However, my EDC gun has factory Hydro-shok's, all my other firearms have my reloads
Click to expand...
I think the question is less about reliability and more about the legal ramifications after. Plenty of over-zealous DAs out there that would love to annihilate a gun owner over a successful self defense incident.
 
OwnTheRide

OwnTheRide

.223 Rem
Messages
1,120
Reaction score
2,220
Location
Allegany
I think anything and everything will be used against you in court.

"He used hollow points to cause more damage" vs "he used FMJ rounds, this shows that he had no regard for the lives of people behind his target."

It's a crappy example, but you get the idea. Here, let me try again:

thughes said:
Best advice I've received is to find out what brand and type ammo the local PD carry, and use that. Apparently it may be an advantage should you have to deal with the court system due to a self defense situation.
Click to expand...

"He used police rounds because he's a wannabe cop vigilante!"

That said, I think using non-sensationally-named factory rounds would be the wiser choice in this case. It might still be used against you, but I think it might be less effective.
 
Far king

Far king

.357 mag
Messages
548
Reaction score
1,016
Location
Barneveld ny
dwa12479 said:
Itll 100% be used against you.

"The defendant loaded his own special reciple to ENSURE the victim would meet his doom."
Click to expand...
The defendant has modified his gun with an excessory dot sight and carried two extra magazines loaded with expanding ammunition because he is looking for an opportunity take human lives!

l would be more concerned with the optics of going into battle to the prosecution and the jury than the the hand loads in my firearm.
 
Darth

Darth

Bunny In Chief
Messages
19,467
Reaction score
24,542
Location
MoCo
I see both sides of this, but I tend to lean more in the "People have been too NYified" camp.

"I know a guy that got his permit yanked for carrying outside of restrictions. "

Do ya? :rolleyes:
 
thughes

thughes

.44 mag
Messages
848
Reaction score
2,385
Location
Your Mom's house
Darth said:
I see both sides of this, but I tend to lean more in the "People have been too NYified" camp.

"I know a guy that got his permit yanked for carrying outside of restrictions. "

Do ya? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Agreed. There are a lot of states in Free America where self defense events are reviewed without a "victims first" mindset, facts examined, the shoot deemed justified, no charges are filed against the person defending themselves, and life goes on. Some free states even have laws that provide immunity against civil suits if the event is determined to be justified. Some of you residing behind enemy lines could use some serious deprogramming.
 
Darth

Darth

Bunny In Chief
Messages
19,467
Reaction score
24,542
Location
MoCo
thughes said:
Agreed. There are a lot of states in Free America where self defense events are reviewed without a "victims first" mindset, facts examined, the shoot deemed justified, no charges are filed against the person defending themselves, and life goes on. Some free states even have laws that provide immunity against civil suits if the event is determined to be justified. Some of you residing behind enemy lines could use some serious deprogramming.
Click to expand...
And, much as we don't like to admit it, NY isn't a conglomerate.

The fractured CCW process demonstrates this.
 
Robin

Robin

.577 Tyrannosaur.
Messages
20,024
Reaction score
43,325
Location
Livingston County
Darth said:
I see both sides of this, but I tend to lean more in the "People have been too NYified" camp.
Click to expand...
I never had a conversation about this subject, I only know that when I finish a session with my hand loads i fill the mag with factory ammo, plain old ball ammo, and think to my self, I've been "NYified"!
How can you help it in this shit hole.
Robin
 
RooftopKorean

RooftopKorean

6.5 Creedmoor
First Responder
Messages
1,942
Reaction score
4,619
Location
Downstate / Lake Ariel, PA
I carry with my own loaded 45 GAP JHP Barnes Tac-X bullets, zero fucks given. The way I see it, if I ever have to use my gun in this god forsaken state I'm fucked anyway.

They'll probably scrutinize that my slide cover says Problem Solver, that I stippled it, and have different color hardware.

Both the libtards and anti 2A RINOs can get fucked.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top