Massachusetts Couple Accused of ‘Kidnapping’ Their Own Five Children from State Custody

Celt · Apr 15, 2025

This is the problem with the system. The state has no right to take these kids away from their parents if they are in good health, not being abused, and the only complaint is refusal of vaccinations.

spat · Apr 15, 2025

Celt said:
This is the problem with the system. The state has no right to take these kids away from their parents if they are in good health, not being abused, and the only complaint is refusal of vaccinations.

More kids have been abused in state custody than in any family's.

Parzival · Apr 15, 2025

spat said:
More kids have been abused in state custody than in any family's.

Source?

spat · Apr 15, 2025

spat said:
More kids have been abused in state custody than in any family's.

Parzival said:
Source?

Simple math.

We have all read news stories about kids getting abused in state custody (and I'd like to remind you that the foster system counts as state custody).

There are easily more reports there than there are kids in even the largest family.

Here's a single example from a single site that is many times more kids than any family.

I am sure could dig up hundreds more like it in a few minutes.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/01/us/dozier-school-abuse-restitution/index.html

Defilade · Apr 15, 2025

Show me the Contract I signed to allow the Hospital or the State to Vaccinate my children? ..... Kidnapped? More like saved! I see that "Mandates" are still around. "Mandates" once again are not Laws. Thought this battle was reversed during th Covid B.S.

Saltwater60 · Apr 15, 2025

spat said:
Simple math.

We have all read news stories about kids getting abused in state custody (and I'd like to remind you that the foster system counts as state custody).

There are easily more reports there than there are kids in even the largest family.

Here's a single example from a single site that is many times more kids than any family.

I am sure could dig up hundreds more like it in a few minutes.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/01/us/dozier-school-abuse-restitution/index.html

I’m sure you’re correct by percentage maybe not number. Foster care is ripe with abuse for kids to kid and parent to kid.
Foster care system is broken. At my church we partner with an organization that works to keep kids being taken away from parents that aren’t abusive but have fallen on hard times. The people they work with lose their kids for two main reasons. They are lack of bedding or crib and lack of appliances mainly a working refrigerator. So NYS would rather steal kids from parents spending thousands monthly to do so than buy a bed or a refrigerator for these families. Makes little sense to me and the system is broken from day one.

spat · Apr 15, 2025

Saltwater60 said:
I’m sure you’re correct by percentage maybe not number. Foster care is ripe with abuse for kids to kid and parent to kid.
Foster care system is broken. At my church we partner with an organization that works to keep kids being taken away from parents that aren’t abusive but have fallen on hard times. The people they work with lose their kids for two main reasons. They are lack of bedding or crib and lack of appliances mainly a working refrigerator. So NYS would rather steal kids from parents spending thousands monthly to do so than buy a bed or a refrigerator for these families. Makes little sense to me and the system is broken from day one.

I wasn't thinking percentage, but raw numbers.

Every state in the union probably thousands of kids being abused right now.

There is no family with thousands of kids.

FP1201 · Apr 15, 2025

Parzival said:
Source?

It's going to vary from location to location, but any like ours are fucked up, and I'd chance a taking my kids out of the Country before letting those fuckwads get a hold of them,

Parzival · Apr 15, 2025

Saltwater60 said:
I’m sure you’re correct by percentage maybe not number. Foster care is ripe with abuse for kids to kid and parent to kid.
Foster care system is broken. At my church we partner with an organization that works to keep kids being taken away from parents that aren’t abusive but have fallen on hard times. The people they work with lose their kids for two main reasons. They are lack of bedding or crib and lack of appliances mainly a working refrigerator. So NYS would rather steal kids from parents spending thousands monthly to do so than buy a bed or a refrigerator for these families. Makes little sense to me and the system is broken from day one.

NYS doesn’t remove kids for those reasons, you are not getting the whole story.

I know personal stories of kids who were intentionally burned with cigarettes, knowingly getting molested by step parents, covered in bruises, in meth withdrawal from parents cooking, no running water or electricity in the house, outside walls missing in the middle of winter, pet and human feces covering the house, a family a 7 living in a minivan, kids returned home with no bed. These kids were not removed or were allowed to return home.

Now I’m in MT, Google Tony Renova. He never should have gone home. The department knew he was sleeping on the floor, and they refused a bed from the fosters.

Yes the state run programs failed these kids, yes there are fosters who are only in it for the money and/or abuse kids. There is a severe lack of safe foster homes for these kids to be in.

I am all for kids being with family and reunification, but the first priority should be to the safety of the kids, not sending them back into harms way.

Acer-m14 · Apr 16, 2025

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Dep't of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 (1989). State child welfare agency does not have a duty to protect a child from known child abuse when (1) the child is in parental custody, and (2) the state did not create the danger of abuse or increase the risk of abuse.
South v. Maryland (1856):
One of the earliest cases to discuss the public duty doctrine, it established that police officers have no duty to protect individuals unless a special relationship exists.
Warren v. District of Columbia (1981):
This case further clarified that police do not have a specific duty to protect individuals from harm, even if they have been called to a property multiple times.
DeShaney v. Winnebago (1989):
This case established that the government has no duty to protect individuals, even those in custody, unless the government takes affirmative action to place the individual in a dangerous situation.
Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005):
This Supreme Court case affirmed that police do not have a constitutional duty to protect someone from harm, even if they are aware of a restraining order violation and have a mandatory arrest statute.
The Public Duty Doctrine:
This legal principle, used in Castle Rock, Warren, and other cases, states that police generally owe a duty to the public as a whole, not specific individuals.

spat · Apr 16, 2025

Parzival said:
NYS doesn’t remove kids for those reasons, you are not getting the whole story.

I know personal stories of kids who were intentionally burned with cigarettes, knowingly getting molested by step parents, covered in bruises, in meth withdrawal from parents cooking, no running water or electricity in the house, outside walls missing in the middle of winter, pet and human feces covering the house, a family a 7 living in a minivan, kids returned home with no bed. These kids were not removed or were allowed to return home.

Now I’m in MT, Google Tony Renova. He never should have gone home. The department knew he was sleeping on the floor, and they refused a bed from the fosters.

Yes the state run programs failed these kids, yes there are fosters who are only in it for the money and/or abuse kids. There is a severe lack of safe foster homes for these kids to be in.

I am all for kids being with family and reunification, but the first priority should be to the safety of the kids, not sending them back into harms way.

Just because not all kids being abuse are being removed doesn't mean that no kids who aren't being abused are being removed.

They can be terrible and have both false positives *and* false negatives.

Probably just depends on what bureaucrat gets assigned to a particular case.

The system is utterly terrible.

Cavalry · Apr 16, 2025

Parzival said:
NYS doesn’t remove kids for those reasons, you are not getting the whole story.

My wife is a mandated reporter. She has had some pretty terrible abuse/ neglect stories and the kids are rarely taken away from the dirtbag parents and if they are they are returned.

Celt · Apr 16, 2025

Parzival said:
I am all for kids being with family and reunification, but the first priority should be to the safety of the kids, not sending them back into harms way.

I don't think anybody would argue that. But removing kids simply for not being vaccinated would be a travesty.

Saltwater60 · Apr 16, 2025

spat said:
I wasn't thinking percentage, but raw numbers.

Every state in the union probably thousands of kids being abused right now.

There is no family with thousands of kids.

I get your angle now. I meant maybe the state has thousands being abused but each state might have 10’s of thousands of kids being abused by their parents. The number of kids in foster care percentage wise is low compared to the number of kids in each state.

spat · Apr 16, 2025

Saltwater60 said:
I get your angle now. I meant maybe the state has thousands being abused but each state might have 10’s of thousands of kids being abused by their parents. The number of kids in foster care percentage wise is low compared to the number of kids in each state.

Yea, but if the state was a family it would absolutely have all it's kids taken away.

OfC, no state would ever pass a BGC to buy a gun either.

Seems a but hypocritical for the state to hold people to a higher standard than it holds itself.

Parzival · Apr 16, 2025

Celt said:
I don't think anybody would argue that. But removing kids simply for not being vaccinated would be a travesty.

I don’t disagree, I’m guessing there’s more to this story.

It is Massholes though so, maybe not.

repete · Apr 16, 2025

"Authorities believe the family fled Massachusetts shortly before the state attempted to enforce child protective measures, according to WCVB 5."
So just how could they have kidnapped them? As stated in the article was there a warrant? Why did Mass DCF go after these people so bad? Could it be the refusal of vaccine or home schooling? I have no way of knowing but would bet somebody at DCF got a bug up their ass about home schooling and the DR. report gave them the opening they were looking for!

Celt · Apr 16, 2025

The article said the kids were reported as healthy, so as long as therebl is no other funny business going on Im glad for the kids, and parents that they left there.

TEOTWAWKI inc. · Apr 17, 2025

Foster care/home/family is an oxymoron. It's more like a feedlot getting livestock ready for the sale barn.

Saltwater60 · Apr 17, 2025

spat said:
Yea, but if the state was a family it would absolutely have all it's kids taken away.

OfC, no state would ever pass a BGC to buy a gun either.

Seems a but hypocritical for the state to hold people to a higher standard than it holds itself.

Of course the state holds others to a much higher standard than they hold themselves to. They can have and do as they please and are exempt from many laws. They have immunity from many liability and legal actions, they can have many guns and toys we can’t. Look what our governor does with the budget. Here are my laws I want passed, if you don’t pass them I won’t sign the budget and no one gets paid but her. That’s illegal and if we did it to anyone else it’s it only labor law violations, fraud, coercion, but the fruits of that action would be null and void.
Maybe this is the angle we need to attack for all laws passed during a contentious budget process that they are all null and void because the legislature was coerced and was beaten into submission with threats to not pass it as the governors wanted.

spat · Apr 17, 2025

Saltwater60 said:
Of course the state holds others to a much higher standard than they hold themselves to. They can have and do as they please and are exempt from many laws. They have immunity from many liability and legal actions, they can have many guns and toys we can’t. Look what our governor does with the budget. Here are my laws I want passed, if you don’t pass them I won’t sign the budget and no one gets paid but her. That’s illegal and if we did it to anyone else it’s it only labor law violations, fraud, coercion, but the fruits of that action would be null and void.
Maybe this is the angle we need to attack for all laws passed during a contentious budget process that they are all null and void because the legislature was coerced and was beaten into submission with threats to not pass it as the governors wanted.

I think your entire first paragraph could be summarized as "tyranny".

You're not wrong. Every one of those grievances needs to be eliminated before we can really call ourselves a "free people".

Cooolone · Apr 17, 2025

The family fled the State in order to practice Religious, Political or Medical Freedom!!!!

A basis our country's foundation is based upon! When it's your own children, you're not kidnapping them, the State does no have a priority of ownership over any live being, what a crazy ridiculous concept... But oh God, no, you could hear all the leftist screaming through their crying towels about how these parents are unfit for their children and the children should be taken away...

Nuts!

Again... Migrate! The same, normal, people who can live life in reality, and not require a nanny State... Run, Fly, Drive, but get the fuck out of these ridiculous Bastions of deep Progressive Leftist mentality and policies, because we know there is no law that would validate these actions! Insane...

Acer-m14 · Apr 17, 2025

Meanwhile Abortion is legal in MASS ...

Grimscale · Apr 18, 2025

Cooolone said:
Again... Migrate!

Yeah, our Founding Fathers should have just travelled west, leaving the colonies, rather than oppose King George.

If you have to flee your home due to tyranny, something is critically wrong. And it is the tyrants who should be fleeing!

What would happen if all of the Counties in NY who oppose heil hochul's draconian regime declare they are seceding from New York State?
And don't give me that b.s. about how they have to have the State's permission. You should never have to ask permission of a tyrant to leave their control.
Just do it. Attach yourselves to another State, or just make a new one. Dump some tea in New York Harbor, burn some effigies of der eyebrows fuhrer, and tell her to piss off.

Massachusetts Couple Accused of ‘Kidnapping’ Their Own Five Children from State Custody

20×102mm Vulcan