TopShot
.357 mag
I agree and I do, but the last couple of guns I bought were from the manufacturers websites at a discount.
I rather not show him I'm not buying the gun from him.
C.B.
FFL Transfers- What happened to the inexpensive firearm transfers?
- Thread starter TopShot
- Start date
I rather not show him I'm not buying the gun from him.
C.B.
Brawny71
.357 mag
NYS also instituted its own background check. The FBI one was FREE and took less time; we didn’t have to enter make model serial caliber for the check for instance. They didn’t want that because it violated the FOPA by creating a database on people who verified they were not a prohibited person. NYS however wants all of that AND charges the dealer for the pleasure. But I will say some dealers are taking advantage of it. Also when the NRA got booted from NYS for five years my insurance went from $250 a year to $4,800. So, yeah you have to make that up as well. Nevermind the added requirements to sell and store ammo and firearms now that they just added. That was another 5K I got to eat.
WOW!!, I'll say it again, WOW! I had no Idea things got that bad in NY. I know through my Brother that NY started BGC's for ammo purchases, all that goes against every Federal law and "Right" to own firearms without a database being implemented. With all that, is a federal 4473 still being processed? I let my NYS license expire and I'm not unhappy about it. If/When I come into NY I'll be sure to have a copy of my FFL and SOT with me. They cannot restrict me from having a firearms in my possession as long as it is locked away and not being carried.
Brawny71
.357 mag
Oh the next attack is in the Bill works as well as we speak. As well as a requirement to teach Jan 6th; which version I’m sure will be unbiased. Everyone in NYS needs to be logging onto the legislative site and letting their reps know their thoughts in a respectful and constructive manner.
Yes, the ATF forms are still required and kept on file. This is bonus work and datacollection.
BLUF: Only the information demanded on the 4473 goes to the FBI/NICS, everything else is collected and retained by NYS for their approval and Registration.
Here's the thing: Software & Services for the Public Sector | Tyler Technologies runs a multi-stage Program than takes all the Data entered (including Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber, etc,) along with the Personally Identifiable Information on the Form 4473 and ostensibly uses that Data Fields pertinent to the NICS System and collects the rest for NYS. Items such as ammunition, Muzzleloaders, and information collected but not allowed Federally goes to and through the State's System (E-Justice I expect) and when there's a determination to be made at the Supervisor Level it goes to the NYSP for determination. Being third hand information from a very reliable source, I will caution that my statement might not be 100% accurate, but it's very close.
If you start investigating Software & Services for the Public Sector | Tyler Technologies there seems to have been cases of Data Breach, and there IS enough PII on those forms to absolutely wreck your life with identity theft.
I forgot to disclose: Tyler Technologies is the Third-Party vendor that administers the Ammunition, Muzzleloader, and NICS Checks for New York State, and now you know why there's a fee for EACH check.
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Here in TN the State administers the Tennessee Instant Check system (TICS). The Fee per check is $10. That fee is passed on as part of a sale/transfer. that's it, other than sales tax there are no other fees, and the TICS records are purged after 48 hours unless on hold. There is a dedicated office in Nashville that handles all TICS business, and I have had to call them on several occasions and always get the person handling the system on the phone and she has worked with me through several issues and answering questions. Very prompt, very professional and accommodating.
After the Law was passed the NYSP were supposed to hire, train. and install clerical staff (not actual Troopers) to facilitate the process, but that was a complete fail, same with building the system for processing ammunition checks. Prior to NY sticking its dick beaters into things, a FFL could call, then they progressed over to Digital/on-line the FBI in Atlanta, give the 4473 information and they'd generally process it very quickly unless you were either sketchy or were flagged with the same name as a prohibited person, and it was free....Now it COSTS the Dealer $9.00 each time he processes a name. Most Dealers are charging $10. and if you have one done at a Gun Show * it'll cost you upwards of $50. for a handgun and $35. for a long gun...sometimes more, sometimes less, so you'd better ask up front first.
* The Larger Shows in the State such as Syracuse and Hamburg have a FFL there to process 4473's for people without the ability to do one there themselves. Almost all FFL/Dealers can and do process NICS Checks for their customers, but sometimes there's still the old guy trying to sell off his stuff before he dies and cannot fulfill the check himself.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I try to support local shops but many do not have inventory and many more charge crazy prices. One gun I saved $300 buying on line. I don’t mind a little bit like $50-$75 more but if I can buy a gun cheaper, have it shipped, pay the fee for the check and save money there’s an issue. I get the mark up and overhead but I can routinely find guns $100-$150 cheaper on line than in stores. I also find buying online and laying the fee is less of a hassle for whatever reason. If I buy from a local shop they try to upsell me and tack on things I don’t need or want. Many times they don’t have the hubs in stock either and charge a few to order the guns as well. Then You have to wait weeks to get your gun as well. It’s almost like they do want to sell guns to you.
I have heard a couple new places opened up that are better but they aren’t close to me so I’d have to drive about an hour to see what they have and if the price is competitive. Often times it’s easier to order online and pay the fee.
Vicarious
.40 S&W
my guy charges a straight 20 bucks, but, were also friends and neighbors
OK, so what does he charge the guy off the street. That's what would be relevant.
Generally speaking, Dealers know they can't always get the best prices or sometimes even get the item. so most aren't butt-hurt about doing transfers so long as it's not a total surprise aka total shit-show. Big Businesses such as Palmetto State Armory have sales at blow-out prices, often at or below Dealer Wholesale because of the volume they buy at and/or Wholesaler agreements with Manufacturers.
Tangent: Back in the 80's a Pawn & Gun Shop opened in Apopka Florida, old Grocery Store in a Plaza, they built an indoor Range, bought-sold-traded guns at a fair pace, held an Auction the first Sunday of every month: Eventually they outgrew it, built a damn nice new Store, and made two decisions that made them a massive Gun Business: one they built a warehouse onto the Store and started a wholesale business cutting out other middlemen and becoming one themselves , Second was creating and promoting Gun Shows across the State about every weekend...today "Shoot Straight" is the largest purveyor of Firearms in the State.
MuttCat
.223 Rem
I knew my FFL for years and gave him my business in firearms and ammo and sundry items. My last firearm he charged $60 for the paperwork. Have not been back since.
Vicarious
.40 S&W
I've never asked..
Interesting how folks will piss & moan about their local Gun Shop charging "retail" for an item, but say nary a word while paying FULL msrp at a big box store like Bass Pro/Cabela's (Gander when they were in the business)
Everybody's got to eat, and it's not exactly easy work running a Gun Shop...Until the last few years when Mary could hire some help, she'd be out in the Shop until 10:00 at night and open at 9:00 in the morning.
Bustedknees
12-gauge slug (smooth bore)
A bit out of my normal northern route, but one of these days I'd like to crash your shop.
Not "my" Shop, but I have been close friends and worked Gun Shows with Dennis & Mary Van Tassel for >35 years...
Another Couple that I'm close with opened a successful Shop in Mannsville, and I hung out there a lot too...they closed it because of NY's demands on Dealers.
A close, personal Friend right down the Road that also has a 01FFL and sells exclusively on Guns America because he too doesn't want to participate in New York's fuck-fuck game of sicking it in your ass far enough to see out your eyeballs.
I've another close, long time friend that's a FFL in Copenhagen that I help out with expertise and abilities...
Conferred with and offered advise to both the AFFES/EXCHANGE and FMWR on Drum when they had 01FFL's...
I have held 01FFL's in my name, and still hold an 03FFL, and hold a Directors Office with a well known pro-gun association.
Van Tassel's Gunsmithing
30412 NYS Rte. 37
Evans Mills, NY 13637
(315) 629-4774
closed Sun & Mon
TopShot
.357 mag
Not me, I support my local gun store.
I don't mind paying a fair price for a product or service.
I just don't like to get robbed!
C.B.
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Nobody wants to get robbed or taken advantage of, sometimes that "fair" price is out of date...I think $30,000. is a lot of money for a new Truck, but double that is what it costs now...It's hard for me to pay "Retail" prices when I can order at wholesale, but not everyone can do that.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I agree. I don’t mind paying a bit of a markup but plenty of places want crazy prices these days. Most places sell below MSRP but one place by me routinely sells $75-$150 above MSRP for what I have seen. $70 transfer fees, and won’t accept ammo from any place but them. I can’t verify their prices anymore because they pulled them all down off the web. I’m sure it’s because it was keeping people Out of the shop becuase they are so overpriced.
check kwaks trading post bellmore
"Fair" is a man made construct used to decide just how acceptable the fucking your getting is.
It's really hard to decide what fair really is: I've seen places that jacked prices and had more business than they could handle and others that folded up because of it...between the Shop where I would consign guns and the Shows, the owners would often tell me I was too low as I want to be fair, which means not giving it away while leaving a little room for negotiation...most of us like a little bit of haggling, even when it's priced very well to start with.
When we had the Shop in Mannsville open, we would listen to customer comments between themselves and "wow, that's not bad" was heard more often than not, then you'd see someone searching on their phone to figure out if it was a good deal or not...all part of the Retail Game.
Imo, NYS background check is a money grabbing scheme. Across the country, they still use the FBI background check.
When Hochul started the NYS background check, the cost went up (BS.)
The other thing that gets me is.. if you have a handgun license why do we have to go through another background check every time we buy a gun. I mean, we had already gone through an extensive background check (fingerprint, witness, interview, etc) to get the license. Why not show your handgun license and be gtg.
When Hochul started the NYS background check, the cost went up (BS.)
The other thing that gets me is.. if you have a handgun license why do we have to go through another background check every time we buy a gun. I mean, we had already gone through an extensive background check (fingerprint, witness, interview, etc) to get the license. Why not show your handgun license and be gtg.
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The ironic thing is that you’re still being ran through the FBI NICS background check. You’re just paying the NYSP to run it instead of the LGS doing it at no cost. And it’s not just for the money. Without the NYSP being involved, and going straight through the FBI, how would they know what you’re buying????
Brawny71
.357 mag
Yeah folks don’t realize the slim margin. I mean if you buy 30, yeah once you sell all of them you make a little. Bernelli is a great example; $50 margin on a M4? It is not a great “Make Money” market right now especially when we lost NRA insurance, had to add cameras and other security, and lost distributers who won’t ship here anymore.
Well yes and no: The NYSP Contracted with Tyler Technologies in Texas to run checks on their behalf, and as far as I know they DO access the FBI's Data for Firearms Checks, for Ammunition and Muzzleloaders (Black Powder) they access New York's System (accessing the NICS System for ANYTHING other than to check an individual for the transfer of a Long Gun, Handgun, or Other is a violation of Federal Law) The data collected as well as that over and above the information on the 4473 us retained by NYS/NYSP for use against you should the situation arise....included in that information is your Drivers Licenses Number, Social Security Number, Occupation, e-mail address, Phone number, and the Make, model, caliber, and serial number of each gun or ammunition being transferred....A Data Breech (and it HAS happened before) of that system would be an absolute Gold Mine of nugget sized information that could be used for identity theft and other nefarious purposes.The ironic thing is that you’re still being ran through the FBI NICS background check. You’re just paying the NYSP to run it instead of the LGS doing it at no cost. And it’s not just for the money. Without the NYSP being involved, and going straight through the FBI, how would they know what you’re buying????
The Fee charged Dealers is $9.00 for each Firearm, and $2.50 for ammunition, and there's NOTHING that stops or discourages Dealers from charging with they want to charge for making the submission of the 4473 and given the amount of time it takes to process that additional information you should count yourself lucky if all they charge is a ten dollar bill. Now there was a provision when the requirement for ALL person to person transfers be limited to $10. (once again, NYS dictating how much you can charge) for a Dealer to facilitate a BGC for a person to person sale, and while most would observe the limit on the "Check" they would add a "Filing Fee" bringing it up to about $25 a a minimum, but that's subjective.
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Brawny71
.357 mag
True Story. FOPA says Federal or States are forbidden from collecting that data once someone has proven to not be a prohibited person. But I digress.
That's on the Federal side, of which NYS gives zero fucks.
I'm thinking "The Brady Act" which established NICS had the prohibition of deleting the information on people that passed the check, but government never deletes anything unless criminal charges are forthcoming.
Steyr Arms in Birmingham Alabama is that way: "Dealer Discount" for a thousand Dollar Rifle is like a hundred bucks.
Just like Cars, the money is in used guns.
The post from brawny71 is correct. There is almost no margin for low scale dealers. If you cannot afford to hold $111's in inventory you don't stand to make much from sales. Not to mention that placed like PSA and buds can sell lower that I can get at dealer pricing. That's why I am parting with all of my inventory.
Well I have never been asked for my DL ‘s # or occupation? That must be an ammunition thing? Only time I buy ammo here is if I’m buying a gun because the BC for the gun covers the ammo. Atleast that’s how it works at my LGS. I WILL NOT just buy ammo in NY. and give them my DL # and occupation??? WTF does that have to do with anything? They can fuck right off.