Trump on mass shootings

BDinPutnam said:

You do realize we are talking about socialism here, yes?

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Everything is socialism. What you promote can be called anarchy too.

And could be called Socialism too since those that don’t serve benefit from those that do.

Edwardteach72 said:

Yes and there us what less than 2% of the current population of the whole country is in the military.. but yea let's bump that up exponentially and see how many options they have

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The more infantry you have, the more support roles you need. It would be the exact same.

Edwardteach72 said:

Ah yes so that makes forced labor a good thing

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And soon coming to a country near you "arbeit macht frei".

Willjr75 said:

The more infantry you have, the more support roles you need. It would be the exact same.

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Why do we need more infantry?

Remember, service guarantees citizenship.

War is peace.
Hate is love.

We have always been at war with Oceania.

BDinPutnam said:

Why do we need more infantry?

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Infantry is the backbone. All other MOS jobs are in support of the infantry.

Willjr75 said:

Infantry is the backbone. All other MOS jobs are in support of the infantry.

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Again- for what purpose?

I am to the point right now that I do not know how exactly I feel about these red flag rules/laws. No matter how the law is written, it will be used incorrectly. It will be abused at every turn.

I do wish that the authorities would take more credence when an issue is brought to them. There was a shooting a little while back, I do not remember exactly where or when, both parents went to the police to talk to them about their son. They had stated to the police that they thought their son was hurting inside, all kinds of fucked up. They also told the cops that the kid had guns. He was 19 I believe and living on his own. The parents told the police that they thought he was going to do something horrible. The Police said nothing could be done. Two days later, he shot 4 or 5 people in the neighborhood.

I need to do some thinking on these rad flag proposals.

BDinPutnam said:

Again- for what purpose?

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The same purpose that the military is for to begin with.

Welp, there you have it: President Trump Calls for Red Flag Laws After Texas, Ohio Shootings

In general....

Those who have served and those serving now, make better citizens, better people.

Bring on the mandatory service for all able men and women.

The military or something like AmeriCorps

Instead of red flag laws being for the removal of guns which doesn’t solve the problem, why not red flag laws be the removal of the actual person from society?

You are temporarily held, evidence is brought against you. You have the ability to defend yourself, ect.

GOPerfect said:

I am to the point right now that I do not know how exactly I feel about these red flag rules/laws. No matter how the law is written, it will be used incorrectly. It will be abused at every turn.

I do wish that the authorities would take more credence when an issue is brought to them. There was a shooting a little while back, I do not remember exactly where or when, both parents went to the police to talk to them about their son. They had stated to the police that they thought their son was hurting inside, all kinds of fucked up. They also told the cops that the kid had guns. He was 19 I believe and living on his own. The parents told the police that they thought he was going to do something horrible. The Police said nothing could be done. Two days later, he shot 4 or 5 people in the neighborhood.

I need to do some thinking on these rad flag proposals.

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I have a real problem with these so called "red flag laws" that has to do with the ex-parte" nature of them, the lack of due process, and the fact that people can make utterly false accusations without consequences.

If someone is going to accuse me, I have a right to face my accuser to refute their accusations in real time, - not months down the road. People should not have the ability to accuse someone anonymously behind your back. AND, - IF someone does accuse you falsely, you should be able to extract a damn big pound of flesh in return, - financially, if not more.

I've been through the "red flag" experience before NY passed their law, and believe me, - it is damned unfair, and very frustrating. There absolutely needs to be big ass consequences against those who fraudulently accuse you of shit that not only affects your health, your reputation, as well as your wallet.

Pretty sure that @RBean postulated that in the next few years that we will see a ton of these types of actions, and I wholeheartedly agree. Especially in a "may issue" state like NY, all it takes is someone with a grudge to screw you over, and yet they can walk away scot free.

If someone wants to accuse me, let them put up a $25,000 bond, and when I show that their accusation is a pile of BS, I want to collect that bond and walk out of court with my head held high, and with $25K in my pocket to compensate for the abuse.

Let a bunch of gun owners write that part of any federal red flag law, and 99% of the false accusations will never occur.

VietnamEraVet said:

I have a real problem with these so called "red flag laws" that has to do with the ex-parte" nature of them, the lack of due process, and the fact that people can make utterly false accusations without consequences.

If someone is going to accuse me, I have a right to face my accuser to refute their accusations in real time, - not months down the road. People should not have the ability to accuse someone anonymously behind your back. AND, - IF someone does accuse you falsely, you should be able to extract a damn big pound of flesh in return, - financially, if not more.

I've been through the "red flag" experience before NY passed their law, and believe me, - it is damned unfair, and very frustrating. There absolutely needs to be big ass consequences against those who fraudulently accuse you of shit that not only affects your health, your reputation, as well as your wallet.

Pretty sure that @RBean postulated that in the next few years that we will see a ton of these types of actions, and I wholeheartedly agree. Especially in a "may issue" state like NY, all it takes is someone with a grudge to screw you over, and yet they can walk away scot free.

If someone wants to accuse me, let them put up a $25,000 bond, and when I show that their accusation is a pile of BS, I want to collect that bond and walk out of court with my head held high, and with $25K in my pocket to compensate for the abuse.

Let a bunch of gun owners write that part of any federal red flag law, and 99% of the false accusations will never occur.

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I think I remember you telling us about this a bit?

I began a thread to discuss ideas to help in fixing some of this Country's woes. The red flag stuff was talked a bit.

Again, not sure where I stand. Closer to the no than the yes.

GOPerfect said:

I am to the point right now that I do not know how exactly I feel about these red flag rules/laws. No matter how the law is written, it will be used incorrectly. It will be abused at every turn.

I do wish that the authorities would take more credence when an issue is brought to them. There was a shooting a little while back, I do not remember exactly where or when, both parents went to the police to talk to them about their son. They had stated to the police that they thought their son was hurting inside, all kinds of fucked up. They also told the cops that the kid had guns. He was 19 I believe and living on his own. The parents told the police that they thought he was going to do something horrible. The Police said nothing could be done. Two days later, he shot 4 or 5 people in the neighborhood.

I need to do some thinking on these rad flag proposals.

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I don’t support them because there are already policies, laws and procedures in place to stop things like this. The justice system and police fail us. The police should arrest and do a 72 hour hold and have a mental evaluation done. If your a danger to yourself or someone else the judge issues a mental adjudication and your temporarily banned from guns or banned for good. This fails to happen time and time again.

Something similar happened right here in good old Buffalo NY to me and my old co-workers. An old co-worker said I’m going to bring a gun in and shoot you all and poison you with the coffee maker. This guy was nuts. All sorts of government conspiracies like aliens, people living in tunnels j see cities, big foots running around, monster pigs, aliens working with the government on science experiments. He was a drunk and a horribly pain pill addict. He went home drank, chewed pain pills and watched porn. His kids and family even hated him. Loaner no friends at all. He was promptly fired and the police/FBI called. My old company even hired a PI to watch him for a few weeks to make sure he wasn’t coming back to do as he stated. Another co-workers dad was a captain at BP and was monitoring the case because if anyone was going to shoot us up it would be him. The court date rolled around and he no showed to court. The judge just dismissed the case without even speaking to anyone. The crazy guy owns guns. Granted it’s different because he never shot us, but the lack of follow through is the same and is a problem.

If I join a local militia would that count as service to my country?

speedkills27 said:

Most people who serve do so voluntarily due to a feeling of pride, love of country, sense of duty etc etc etc. Im assuming much like yourself (thank you by the way). Those types seem to lean right naturally not because of their service but more so because of their upbringing, moral compass, or genetic make up. Those types will always be found. I feel if you have forced service you will find alot of people just mailing it in for their time. They wont care because it doesn't mean something to them. To those types its just a requirement they need to do, and they'll do minimum until that box is checked

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In switzerland everyone has to show up for service or equivalent social service duties and look how well they have done so far. It is also one of the safest countries in the world while they have a very high percentage of households with firearms.
They also have hippies and lots of progressives over there but that doesnt get in the way of duty as expected in a civil and advance society.
Once you land in Israel one quickly realizes that anyone, even the most unexpected person has a pretty good sense of duty and are ready to defend and assist in time of crisis. It is expected of you from family, communites and the entire nation and national security relies on this.
Some people think they can buy their way into eternal security and insulate themselves from the problems of the world by hiring legions to figjt for them, sometimes even getting troops and people killed in conflicts we have no business being there.
Your country is your home as much as your own home so understand that everyone needs to help the circumstances.
Peoplw joined for WW2 not because it was professional but it was a shame not to do it in presence of great evil.
As a result of those huge sacrifices one of the greatest generations was carved and the most unexpected average blue collar man and street thugs bacame unexpexted heroes.

meketrefe said:

In switzerland everyone has to show up for service or equivalent social service duties and look how well they have done so far. It is also one of the safest countries in the world while they have a very high percentage of households with firearms.
They also have hippies and lots of progressives over there but that doesnt get in the way of duty as expected in a civil and advance society.
Once you land in Israel one quickly realizes that anyone, even the most unexpected person has a pretty good sense of duty and are ready to defend and assist in time of crisis. It is expected of you from family, communites and the entire nation and national security relies on this.
Some people think they can buy their way into eternal security and insulate themselves from the problems of the world by hiring legions to figjt for them, sometimes even getting troops and people killed in conflicts we have no business being there.
Your country is your home as much as your own home so understand that everyone needs to help the circumstances.
Peoplw joined for WW2 not because it was professional but it was a shame not to do it in presence of great evil.
As a result of those huge sacrifices one of the greatest generations was carved and the most unexpected average blue collar man and street thugs bacame unexpexted heroes.

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Too many in America take citizenship for granted. So many in America have little pride in Country. Too many have no pride in the nation that has offered them everything.

So many never give anything back to our Country.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Monday he has reached an agreement with Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal to create a federal grant program to help states adopt "red flag" protection order laws making it easier to take guns away from people believed to be a danger to themselves or others.

I disagree with the above statements and red flag laws, but the plan below sounds reasonable to me. People don’t seem to understand that there is already a plan in place to remove guns from mentally unstable people. I don’t think the cops have the knowledge or enough manpower to do so and/or the judges do t bother so the cops don’t arrest those crazies that are reported. MSD high school shooter is a perfect example.

The grants would be given to law enforcement so they can hire and consult with mental health professionals to better determine which cases need to be acted upon, Graham said, adding that while the program allows for quick action, it requires judicial review.

Trump signaled openness to red-flag laws in his White House speech, saying, "We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms and that if they do those firearms can be taken through rapid due process."

meketrefe said:

In switzerland everyone has to show up for service or equivalent social service duties and look how well they have done so far. It is also one of the safest countries in the world while they have a very high percentage of households with firearms.
They also have hippies and lots of progressives over there but that doesnt get in the way of duty as expected in a civil and advance society.
Once you land in Israel one quickly realizes that anyone, even the most unexpected person has a pretty good sense of duty and are ready to defend and assist in time of crisis. It is expected of you from family, communites and the entire nation and national security relies on this.
Some people think they can buy their way into eternal security and insulate themselves from the problems of the world by hiring legions to figjt for them, sometimes even getting troops and people killed in conflicts we have no business being there.
Your country is your home as much as your own home so understand that everyone needs to help the circumstances.
Peoplw joined for WW2 not because it was professional but it was a shame not to do it in presence of great evil.
As a result of those huge sacrifices one of the greatest generations was carved and the most unexpected average blue collar man and street thugs bacame unexpexted heroes.

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mek,

I like you so don't take this the wrong way but I hate when people try to compare the U.S. with how well European countries are doing. It's like comparing apples and carrots. The people there are so homogenous that it's futile to compare their demographics with ours. Take this forum for example. Pretend it's Switzerland. For the most part we can agree on most stuff and get along especially when it comes to gun related topics. Now what if you merged this site with say a moms demand action website? What do you think would happen? Ironically we can see this type of thing happening in European countries right now with the invasion of people from the middle east. We're not talking oil and water here. We're taking fire and ice. Two total opposites that don't mix. So now let's think about the U.S. within itself. Forget apples to carrots. It would be apples to squash to kiwi to broccoli to grapes to chicken. Diversity being one of our greatest strengths in the U.S. just happens to be a big downfall as well. But comparing the U.S. to literally any other place on earth is a mistake.

dubleuhb said:

Taxes, permits, licences, vaccinations......how dare the government force you to do anything.
Say no to those few things and see what happens.
Anyone that thinks we live free and aren't forced by government in our everyday lives isn't really paying attention.

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so excerlerate it by adding another item to the list

gun_slinger_boy said:

If I join a local militia would that count as service to my country?

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How about volunteering at a soup kitchen or picking up litter?

I would gladly welcome more of a background check (if you're clean, you have nothing to worry about) in exchange for national reciprocity and a 100% repeal of the SAFE act.

meketrefe said:

In switzerland everyone has to show up for service or equivalent social service duties and look how well they have done so far. It is also one of the safest countries in the world while they have a very high percentage of households with firearms.

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Switzerland has a significantly smaller population than the US and is much less diversified. Apples to oranges

meketrefe said:

Your country is your home as much as your own home so understand that everyone needs to help the circumstances.
Peoplw joined for WW2 not because it was professional but it was a shame not to do it in presence of great evil.
As a result of those huge sacrifices one of the greatest generations was carved and the most unexpected average blue collar man and street thugs bacame unexpexted heroes.

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Same with 9/11 people joined en mass out of sense of pride and to protect our homeland.The sense of duty and honor is still there, I argue as strong as ever, i think it just gets clouded with bad news media that lean left and make it seem the country is falling apart

"The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people."- James Madison