10 round mags that hold more?

[Mike1Juliet]

Thought of something stupid but maybe genius today, idk tell me what you think.

I got thinking about inter-compatible magazines between certain groups of firearms. For example a Glock magazine in 40S&W will also fit into the magazine well of another glock that may not be chambered in 40 S&W. This also comes with the odd caveat that a NY legal 10 round glock magazine in 40 S&W can hold 13 rounds of 9mm. Is it legal to buy a 10 round glock magazine in 40 S&W and load it with 13 rounds of 9mm and put it into my glock 17, chambered in 9mm?

There are a few other places this works too, a 458 socom magazine for an AR-15 chambered in it can fit 10 rounds of 458 socom, however the magazine for that bullet also happens to perfectly fit 30 rounds of 5.56x45. Is it legal to buy a 458 Socom magazine (obviously well labeled with what the magazine was meant for) and put 30 rounds of 5.56 into it and use it in my AR-15 chambered for 5.56? Hell I've got a marlin 22lr with a tube magazine and I wonder if I can put a ton of 22 shorts into it.

I've been doing some googling about other combinations too. This largely stems from a recent idea a friend had about loading his Remington 870 (which has a limit of 7 regular, 12g, 2 3/4'' shells) with those Aguila minishells (Aguila Minishells : Cabela's) where he thinks he can jam about 10+ into his magazine but wasn't sure if its legal or not. Has anyone here done this? Tried this? Gotten any clarification from any store, police officer or anyone?

 

[SomeSoldier]

No. Having a mag with more than 10 rds will get you jail time.

 

[ManrisFrack]

" An attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition," is exempted from the definition of a large capacity ammunition feeding device. You're Marlin is okay no matter how many shorts you put in it.

 

[Mike1Juliet]

No. Having a mag with more than 10 rds will get you jail time.

Thats not what I was pointing out, it wasn't about having >10 round mags. It was about taking certain 10 round magazines that happen to fit other, smaller bullets that it wasn't designed for, artificially raising the limit on the mag's capacity.

" An attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition," is exempted from the definition of a large capacity ammunition feeding device. You're Marlin is okay no matter how many shorts you put in it.

I forgot about this exemption, thanks!

 

[71velle]

I would love to see you put 13 rounds of 9mm into a 10 round 40 mag...

 

[Mk44]

I believe Op is trying to say... having a 10 round magazine for 40S&W, BUT loading it up with the smaller 9mm bullets to get more than 10rds in the magazine.
You already know the law in NYS is "10 rounds". 10rds means 10rds. Regardless if more will fit. get caught with more than 10rds in any magazine (in NYS) and you're asking for a legal battle.
And even if more 9mm will fit in a .40 magazine, I don't think it would feed 100% because of the lip of the magazine for 9mm vs .40.
I would not use it as a CCW to save my life. Just carry a spare mag in the correct cartridge.

 

[Mike1Juliet]

I would love to see you put 13 rounds of 9mm into a 10 round 40 mag...

Trying to google these things is a little difficult as I get so many side topics that aren't exactly what I'm looking for and a lot of them are from california but apparently putting 9mm into glock 40 mags is the most well known one. Sure it might have some reliability issues because its obviously not a 9mm mag but it works none the less. Looking over the law some more, theres nothing really illegal about it because theres nothing legal about putting the wrong ammo into the wrong magazine and using it in a gun designed for the wrong ammo. The only nefarious thing I can find is the part about "can be readily restored or readily converted to accept" because neither are you restoring nor converting anything rather just putting the wrong ammo in the wrong mag. Strictly speaking if this was true then all shotguns are illegal because of aguila minishells, all 40 caliber mags from glock are illegal because of 9mm and all 458 socom mags are illegal because of 223 and probably all AICS mags are illegal because I bet you could totally jam a 10 round 308 mag full of 243's or something stupid like that.. Really just sounds like a gray area.

 

[E the massive]

These Peter pan scenarios won't hold up in court. 10 rds is 10 rds.

 

[GunXpatriot]

Uhhhhh, this is just asking for trouble. As cool of an idea as it sounds, I would make the assumption that the caliber you're putting into the thing, would be the caliber they'd load to test to see if you're a "criminal" so to speak.

Which begs another question. Since you can load more rounds than is standard for many mags...

Moral of the story is, this state sucks.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You can buy whatever you want. Buy a 10 rd Socom magazine. That's fine. Buy a 10 rd .40 magazine. That's fine.

The minute you add 11 rounds into it, it becomes illegal. You can't go around carrying it with more than 10 rounds and be good to go because it's a 10 round magazine.

Some 10 rd 9mm magazines can hold 11 rounds of 9mm after the spring wears out. The same applies. It's legal until you add the 11th round.

Same goes with shotgun tubes. The minute you add the 11th mini shell, it becomes a large capacity feeding device.

At home, no one will know. Outdoors no one will know. No one will know until something happens that the police get involved. If they count 11 rds in it no matter the caliber, it becomes a large capacity feeding device according to their laws no matter what it was designed for.

 

[Marine Cpl]

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, that (a) has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition, or

The minute you use 11 rounds of 9mm in a .40 magazine, it has a capacity of over 10 rounds.

 

[ManrisFrack]

It could be argued that the capacity is there regardless of what you put in it. Yet another glaring oversight of this asinine law. If you got caught with 30 5.56 in a 458 Socom mag, my guess is that they would interpret the law in the least favorable manner for you. Precedent would be set and it would likely screw the owners of 458 Socoms, 40 Glocks and practically all shotguns.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I don't thing it's vague or grey at all. It clearly says "that has a capacity of."

Once you stuff 11 rounds of 9mm into a .40 magazine, it now has the "capacity of."

 

[togmaster]

I know, put 13 rounds of 9 in a Glock 40 magazine, load it into your G19 and go to the NYSP barracks and ask them. You might want to bring some personal lube with you for the vacation you will go on afterward.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I don't thing it's vague or grey at all. It clearly says "that has a capacity of."

Once you stuff 11 rounds of 9mm into a .40 magazine, it now has the "capacity of."

The 11th round didn't magically change the physical configuration of the magazine. It didn't magically create capacity. The capacity was obviously there before the 11th round was inserted. Capacity: "the maximum amount or number that can be contained or accommodated" (Merriam-webster.com, emphasis mine).

The law no longer has enforceable wording regarding the number of loaded rounds. My layman's opinion is that a conviction would need to rely on capacity rather than actual round count due to this fact.

Maybe you get an honest judge that throws the whole clause out because of this, but the state would never let that stand.

 

[71velle]

Trying to google these things is a little difficult as I get so many side topics that aren't exactly what I'm looking for and a lot of them are from california but apparently putting 9mm into glock 40 mags is the most well known one. Sure it might have some reliability issues because its obviously not a 9mm mag but it works none the less. Looking over the law some more, theres nothing really illegal about it because theres nothing legal about putting the wrong ammo into the wrong magazine and using it in a gun designed for the wrong ammo. The only nefarious thing I can find is the part about "can be readily restored or readily converted to accept" because neither are you restoring nor converting anything rather just putting the wrong ammo in the wrong mag. Strictly speaking if this was true then all shotguns are illegal because of aguila minishells, all 40 caliber mags from glock are illegal because of 9mm and all 458 socom mags are illegal because of 223 and probably all AICS mags are illegal because I bet you could totally jam a 10 round 308 mag full of 243's or something stupid like that.. Really just sounds like a gray area.

Yes not an exact comparison. But I have used 40 mag in my G34 several times at the range without issue, because I had forgot mags and a buddy had 40 mags. Difference is the 40 mags were 10 rounders compared to the vid. I have run about 20 mags of 9 through the 40 mags without issue. I have been told that in the 10 round 40 mags that 11 rounds of 9mm will fit, which makes sence because each round is 1mm smaller giving an extra 10mm of space in the mag.

From a legal stand point it would not be worth a felony for 1 round, other than the law thing is 1 round worth the potential reliability issues.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The 11th round didn't magically change the physical configuration of the magazine. It didn't magically create capacity. The capacity was obviously there before the 11th round was inserted. Capacity: "the maximum amount or number that can be contained or accommodated" (Merriam-webster.com, emphasis mine).

The law no longer has enforceable wording regarding the number of loaded rounds. My layman's opinion is that a conviction would need to rely on capacity rather than actual round count due to this fact.

Maybe you get an honest judge that throws the whole clause out because of this, but the state would never let that stand.

You are correct. Capacity means ability to hold. I got that wrong.

With that said, if used for the correct ammunition, it doesn't have the capacity or ability to hold more than 10 rounds. When used with the wrong ammunition it was designed for, it does have that capacity or ability.

It'll only have that capacity if used for the wrong ammunition.

Still illegal when used with the wrong ammunition. Legal when empty or filled with the right ammunition.

 

[71velle]

You are correct. Capacity means ability to hold. I got that wrong.

With that said, if used for the correct ammunition, it doesn't have the capacity or ability to hold more than 10 rounds. When used with the wrong ammunition it was designed for, it does have that capacity or ability.

It'll only have that capacity if used for the wrong ammunition.

Still illegal when used with the wrong ammunition. Legal when empty or filled with the right ammunition.

Now you got me thinking, if you had a 40 mag in a 9 pistol with only 10 rounds would that be illegal because it has the capacity to hold 11?

 

[Darth]

I don't thing it's vague or grey at all. It clearly says "that has a capacity of."

Once you stuff 11 rounds of 9mm into a .40 magazine, it now has the "capacity of."

If it's empty or full of the correct amount, it doesn't have the "capacity of."

I have a jug here by me. Has a capacity of 1 gallon. It's empty at the moment. Does that mean its capacity isn't 1 gallon?

Is sitting right next to a beer bottle. 12oz. If I pour this beer in my hand into it so it comes right to the rim of the bottle, is it now a 13 oz bottle?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Now you got me thinking, if you had a 40 mag in a 9 pistol with only 10 rounds would that be illegal because it has the capacity to hold 11?

I would think yes because it is now being used as a 9mm magazine and it'll have the capacity to accept another round.

Basically whatever the magazine is being used for is what it now is.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have a jug here by me. Has a capacity of 1 gallon. It's empty at the moment. Does that mean its capacity isn't 1 gallon?

Is sitting right next to a beer bottle. 12oz. If I pour this beer in my hand into it so it comes right to the rim of the bottle, is it now a 13 oz bottle?

I already posted that I was wrong.

 

[Blimey]

It's not a stupid idea. I wouldn't try it in NY but in Canada there is some caliber, can't remember which, and people buy 5 round mags in this because that's the limit I think for semi auto (memory is vague), but this mag actually holds almost twice as many 223.

 

[BDinPutnam]

It's not a stupid idea. I wouldn't try it in NY but in Canada there is some caliber, can't remember which, and people buy 5 round mags in this because that's the limit I think for semi auto (memory is vague), but this mag actually holds almost twice as many 223.

458 Socom I believe.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It's not a stupid idea. I wouldn't try it in NY but in Canada there is some caliber, can't remember which, and people buy 5 round mags in this because that's the limit I think for semi auto (memory is vague), but this mag actually holds almost twice as many 223.

I believe their law allows you to only have 5 rd magazines for a long gun and up to 10 or 15 for a pistol magazine.

So they buy legal pistol magazines to use in a rifle.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

10 rounds or less in a magazine capacity that has a capacity of 10. If you have 10 rounds in a mag and it will accept more, then you are in violation of the crap act. Mags and rounds are very simple to understand

 

[IrishMick]

Not to derail the thread but is legal capacity for any gun (.22 non withstanding) 10 rounds? Thinking Enfield No.1 mk3 holds 10 rounds of .303 The Ishapore 2A1 holds 12 rounds of .308. Is the Ishapore not legal in NYS? For those unfamiliar the Ishapore 2A1 was designed to hold 12 rounds of .308 and there are no other magazines made for them as far as I know.

 

[Blimey]

Not to derail the thread but is legal capacity for any gun (.22 non withstanding) 10 rounds? Thinking Enfield No.1 mk3 holds 10 rounds of .303 The Ishapore 2A1 holds 12 rounds of .308. Is the Ishapore not legal in NYS? For those unfamiliar the Ishapore 2A1 was designed to hold 12 rounds of .308 and there are no other magazines made for them as far as I know.

You'd have to pin the mag, and a person with such a mag would have been out of compliance as of 2013 when NY SAFE passed without that pinned mag.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Not to derail the thread but is legal capacity for any gun (.22 non withstanding) 10 rounds? Thinking Enfield No.1 mk3 holds 10 rounds of .303 The Ishapore 2A1 holds 12 rounds of .308. Is the Ishapore not legal in NYS? For those unfamiliar the Ishapore 2A1 was designed to hold 12 rounds of .308 and there are no other magazines made for them as far as I know.

Not to jump on this but ".22 non withstanding"- that exemption applies to tubular-fed magazines only, in my understanding. Probably obvious and not to beat a dead horse but to quote @ManrisFrack from above:

"An attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition" is exempted from the definition of a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

No in excess of 10 round detachable mags for your 10/22, in other words.

 

[IrishMick]

That's what I was thinking. I think it shows how crazy the UN SAFE act is. This is a 100 year old design and for all intents and purposes the two rifles are identical except the magazine was redesigned for the .308 chambering. (Why India chose 12 when ammo comes in 20 round boxes is strange to say the least). How this makes the Ishapore more deadly than the Enfield is beyond comprehension.

 

[IrishMick]

Yes BD I know that. I just didn't want to get caught up in that. Also, while doing some research, From what I could find out the 7 round law is still on the books even though it was stuck down by a judge this did not eliminate the law. Does this mean that if I load my Enfield to 10 rounds or use my Garand or SKS while shooting somewhere other than the range I could be arrested and prosecuted for having more than 7 rounds loaded?