5.56 primer pockets.

[HighlandLofts]

Over half of the 223/5.56 range brass i pick up have the crimped primers. So I guess i need a pocket swagger.
How do they work?
Never used one before, but will be buying one if it would be beneficial.
I reformed some of the regular pocket brass for 7mmTCU. I will be loading some 223 up for my Remington 700 this week.
i separated the brass that I have deprimed and tumbled. Would like to make it all useable.

 

[kev74]

I have the RCBS swager. It screws into a single stage press like a die. It pushes back the crimp without removing metal. I like it and it works well.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Buy fully processed brass and embrace your freedom.

I had a dillion 1050 and found buying fully processed brass as the only way to go. And i was shooting 7-8000 rounds per year.

 

[Mosinitis]

This is the best tool for the job you can get. It's from Dillon. RCBS now makes a similar tool, but Dillon still the most popular.

 

[David D]

Yea, for a little more than 100 dollars you can have the Dillion. It's much faster than using a swagging die.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I went on YouTube and watched two videos on dragging, the first was the RCBS sagging die that goes in the press. It looks like that would be a lot more time consuming then the bench mounted swagger.
I watched the bench mounted RCBS swagger.

So is thete several mandrels that the case rides up for the different calibers?
I see it comes with the small and large pocket tool.

For what little 223/5.57 brass i pick up i think I might buy the one that goes in the press for now and buy the bench mounted one when I have the extra hundred or so dollars.


I hardly ever buy new brass, if I don't find it I either buy used brass or trade for it.
I have my two sons back there in New Yorkistan a bunch of brass that I picked up at the gravel.pits over the last few years. It they couldn't use it they either gave it away or traded it off.

I really enjoy doing the reloading stuff, for the amount I shoot with my grandson the single stage lock n load is enough for now. When he gets older I will buy a progressive press.

I never thought about looking on YouTube until this afternoon.
Thank you all for your replied, this gun forum is the best one to be on.

 

[Mosinitis]

Dillon unit is convertible to 223/5.57, 308/30-06, 9mm and 45ACP. Which is basically all of common crimped military brass.

 

[kev74]

RCBS is similar. One for small primers and another for large.

 

[MilesTeg]

I went with an rcbs prep station and remmed them. I want the prep station for the chamfer and deburr also. I really thought I was killing 2 birds with one stone. After using it I would recommend a dillion swedge and a prep station if you want it.

 

[meketrefe]

For precision shooting don't swag them, instead ream them out.
The reason is that to swag you are cold forming and there is no way to determine the web will also deform leading
to minute but avoidable deformation that might impact the best possible accuracy.
After all, brass flows with every firing and once fired has already expanded once to conform to the chamber specially
military brass that can peak in excess of 63k psi like LC plant/nato that is hard brass and also the one with most capacity
on average. Same situation with WCC / nato that is second on average in capacity. These would be the two best donors for the
6mm, 6.5 and 7mm tcu IMO.
Power reaming can be done with the drill and a $5 cutter.

 

[HighlandLofts]

Miles do you have the. $150 prep staton or the $400 one?

Is it worth spending that much?

I don't mind spending money on my gun stuff if it is worth it.
On another forum I am on one of the guys bought a prep station and didn't like it.

If I go that way it will probably be spring time.i have to pay off a $1,500 T/C Contender pistol and I have to get a swirling ticket from here to Binghamton or Scranton for beer season and by my non resident New Yorkistan hunting license.
And still take the grandson out shooting every weekend until our rain season starts.
I spent over $4,000 in gun money so far this year and I have four months to go.
Cabelas lost my shopping because of their bass pro policies. I shop elsewhere and only go to Cabelas if the other places locally don't have what I need.
I have been doing a lot of Wal-Mart online buying and natchez supply.
Some e bay as well.

I have a table reserved at our local gun club show in September. I have a bunch of stuff to get rid of and should cover my airline ticket. I will buy my hunting license in two weeks when I get paid.

 

[meketrefe]

Over the years I have tried all sort of stations and trimmers and stations and IMO it is not wise to spend a lot in a prep station specially because
it has a pretty limited role if one wants to really accelerate yet prepare brass faster.
One needs to see the entire process. There are many ways to skin a cat but we can discuss if you are looking for just speed or speed and
accuracy.
IMO there is no one single solution that can do the best results.
Normally is a combination of things that one has to integrate accordingly and progressively and of course depending on the caliber/s one has in mind.

 

[meketrefe]

I went with an rcbs prep station and remmed them. I want the prep station for the chamfer and deburr also. I really thought I was killing 2 birds with one stone. After using it I would recommend a dillion swedge and a prep station if you want it.

Miles when you say rcbs prep and reamed you mean to trim to length?
The swag method is not the fastest nor the most accurate way. It is not bad but whether dillon or rcbs it doesn't make a difference.
There are other fast and accurate ways of doing things. A dedicated power tool with a cheap cutter is a cheap investment too.
One has to think about the entire process of all brass life cycle but pocket prep. like this is most times a one time operation for
the rest of the life of that pocket and brass.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I am kind of limited on bench space, I have to get my small little gun room straightened up so I have more room and I need shelving put in for case storage. Right now they are stacked on my loading bench.


Another thing I need is a powder storage container. I have over 20 - one pound containers of powder on the bench as well..i have to see what will work after get the room cleaned out.

I think I might just buy the $30 die for now.

 

[Mosinitis]

For precision shooting don't swag them, instead ream them out.
The reason is that to swag you are cold forming and there is no way to determine the web will also deform leading
to minute but avoidable deformation that might impact the best possible accuracy.
After all, brass flows with every firing and once fired has already expanded once to conform to the chamber specially
military brass that can peak in excess of 63k psi like LC plant/nato that is hard brass and also the one with most capacity
on average. Same situation with WCC / nato that is second on average in capacity. These would be the two best donors for the
6mm, 6.5 and 7mm tcu IMO.
Power reaming can be done with the drill and a $5 cutter.

I did that for a while and don't recommend it. It creates unsupported area around primer pocket corner. I seen tiny piercing in that area, which etches small dimples on bolt face. This has also been mentioned in Feamster's "Black Magic".

 

[meketrefe]

I did that for a while and don't recommend it. It creates unsupported area around primer pocket corner. I seen tiny piercing in that area, which etches small dimples on bolt face. This has also been mentioned in Feamster's "Black Magic".

I agree it can be a problem but it can be avoided if done right.

IMO Several things at play here...

- care should be put to just cut the crimp. Some people go too deep and that is not good.
- lots of hard brass (less say lc or wcc nato) takes longer to cut than soft brass (less say fc, fiocci or some pmc ) so we need to modulate the tool
and pressure accordingly.
- A deburring cutter might have the wrong angle for this. Choose one with a less aggressive angle to more efficiently cut off the crimp.
- Not all bolt faces are susceptible to etching, induce cratering or other conditions, some more than others regardless of the primer situation.
Even the same rifle makers have shown differences and even deficiencies across models and years. Sometimes is QC pissing all over. some folks still
complain about savage cratering or model 7 etching yet we cannot really prove cause/effect or impact in performance (unless obvious reasons).

A proper crimp cut will not be much different than a factory hornady pocket if we just cut the crimp. A tool maker will make you a bell cutter and then you can almost match factory lapua edge of pockets too.
Like a steak on the grill do it little and come back later to adjust. better cut less at first and/or try different cutters because when we do a huge cut
there is no way to put the brass back.

 

[MilesTeg]

This is the one I have.

RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center 110 Volt - MPN: 90375

It does everything as advertised well. I really do like the deburr and chamfer on it. I feel like it's easier and faster than any other method I've tried.

But as being discussed here is the primer pocket reamer, which this has. As above it works as advertised. My fault with it is if your doing a large batch my hand doesn't have the grip for the long haul.

This leads me to my argument of the machine. It's designed for small to medium batches of precision work. If your looking to do any sort of volume you will need to find something else or find a better way to hold on to the brass.

As far as ream vs swedge I will default to the experts above for detailed knowledge. My take is both methods have a loyal following, so pick one and learn the pros and cons for your chosen method and try to mitigate the cons.

 

[JamieZ]

I use this Hornady Lock-N-Load Case Prep Trio 110/220 Volt - MPN: 050160

Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter Head

with a chamfering head,,,a deburring head and a primer pocket reamer all attached. If the primer pocket has already been done on previous loads it wont cut the pocket again.

 

[Mosinitis]

I agree it can be a problem but it can be avoided if done right.

IMO Several things at play here...

- care should be put to just cut the crimp. Some people go too deep and that is not good.
- lots of hard brass (less say lc or wcc nato) takes longer to cut than soft brass (less say fc, fiocci or some pmc ) so we need to modulate the tool
and pressure accordingly.
- A deburring cutter might have the wrong angle for this. Choose one with a less aggressive angle to more efficiently cut off the crimp.
- Not all bolt faces are susceptible to etching, induce cratering or other conditions, some more than others regardless of the primer situation.
Even the same rifle makers have shown differences and even deficiencies across models and years. Sometimes is QC pissing all over. some folks still
complain about savage cratering or model 7 etching yet we cannot really prove cause/effect or impact in performance (unless obvious reasons).

A proper crimp cut will not be much different than a factory hornady pocket if we just cut the crimp. A tool maker will make you a bell cutter and then you can almost match factory lapua edge of pockets too.
Like a steak on the grill do it little and come back later to adjust. better cut less at first and/or try different cutters because when we do a huge cut
there is no way to put the brass back.

Wilson makes a nice crimp cutter, which makes it harder to overdo it. I still prefer Dillon tool for speed and simplicity. It can be adjusted to minimize the effects you described. For top precision at longer ranges I wouldn't use military brass. Lapua, Norma or similar quality commercial brass is what I would use. I doubt OP needs that level of precision.

 

[meketrefe]

Wilson makes a nice crimp cutter, which makes it harder to overdo it. I still prefer Dillon tool for speed and simplicity. It can be adjusted to minimize the effects you described. For top precision at longer ranges I wouldn't use military brass. Lapua, Norma or similar quality commercial brass is what I would use. I doubt OP needs that level of precision.

I agree, Lapua is hard to beat but if more capacity is needed LC and WCC nato like 2008-2014 bulk will do that. That is why I mentioned them because it can be segregated and can yield up to a grain more in capacity for the TCU line or like the 6x45 that is a huge plus. In addition can take heat well and the service life will depend how hot one goes and if annealing is needed. They are excellent donors for this and they can also produce super accurate ammo.
Afterall is wc/wcc who produces lots of the black hills brass. As you well know it is a matter of attention to detail and time whatever the variant method.
I just wanted to point out that a good cutter can be fast and precise too, sometimes more than pretty costly solutions.
I have stacked a substantial nr. of those purchase-impulse mistakes through the years.

The biggest crap is federal 223. It is good brass but it is soft and pockets go south in 3 firings otherwise it would be a lot better.
Still many times free at the recycling big so why not use it right? It just would not be the top brass for a high performance and high pressure
round. It is not all bad, it is just soft brass.

 

[meketrefe]

This is the one I have.

RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center 110 Volt - MPN: 90375

It does everything as advertised well. I really do like the deburr and chamfer on it. I feel like it's easier and faster than any other method I've tried.

But as being discussed here is the primer pocket reamer, which this has. As above it works as advertised. My fault with it is if your doing a large batch my hand doesn't have the grip for the long haul.

This leads me to my argument of the machine. It's designed for small to medium batches of precision work. If your looking to do any sort of volume you will need to find something else or find a better way to hold on to the brass.

As far as ream vs swedge I will default to the experts above for detailed knowledge. My take is both methods have a loyal following, so pick one and learn the pros and cons for your chosen method and try to mitigate the cons.

Miles,
I also have that station among others and it is affordable and works well but not the ideal for the pockets.
It has to work hard. I mean if you only do 1 or 2 hundred that is fine and your hand will get tired anyway
and I have big strong paws but the thumb joint suffers with the stress adding the lack of precission trying
to cut straight and consistent depth.
Stations can do it, they are just not the ideal too to trim. So either an actual powered trimmer (mini lathe)
or even a good press drill with a stop on the cutter for depth precision. The case holder can be something as
simple as a pilot hole in a piece of oak or an actual rimmed pocket is aluminum or alloy to support the case.
There are rotary tools that are designed to cut and cut precisely and relentlessly very fast with proper carbide
cutters. Even an inexpensive drill or variable speed dremel can cut fast w/o producing heat. for this one needs a good sharp
cutter and adjust it to cut just the crimp. There is nothing faster than that. one can do one every two seconds
with less motions and effort than a swagger. But the main thing is to make it consistent. First consistency then
speed comes second.

edit: I think the stations are great for finishing like deburr here and there and cleaning.

 

[meketrefe]

btw if anyone wants picture I can make some of all extremes situations. Sometimes I find brass where folks screwed the web
when swagging somehow or cut almost the whole primer pocket off! lol. It seems obvious to me when one needs to stop and
why we have calipers and/or micrometers. I have done a few mistakes of my own in the early days and saved some brass to
tell the story whether it was brass forming for a new cartrige design or simply prepping brass. I just think these things are
quite obvious but let me know if one needs to see pics. Not sure abut quality of pics though. I need to get a new phone.

 

[HighlandLofts]

The brass I have is picked up at the gravel pits up in the national forest lands. I pick it all up, the brass I generally clean it up to keep, trade or give it away.as far as shooting goes I'm not into long range precision shooting. Most of the pits I go to are a hundred yards or less.
The one I go to alot is split, upper level and lower level. We can can get a hundred yards, but shoot between 35 to 65 yards.

These crimped pieces or brass are just plinking brass. Once we get the loads made up i will go ahead and make a bunch up.

When the grandson gets bigger and gets more into the precision shooting I will buy new high quality brass, but until then this free brass is the ticket.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miles did you get your bench built?

 

[HighlandLofts]

Tonight w
I went up in my gun room to finish using up the six pack of the Hornady lock n load bushings I bought a couple of days ago and look what I found on the bottom of one of the stacks of reloading dies.


So the decision is made on what direction I will go for now.i forgot I bought that dies set, probably bought it a year or so ago on one of my Budweiser nights.
I will set it up tomorrow night and give it a work out.
Damn I like surprised. The bottom of the three stacks of dies are behind the scales, powder trickles, packs of shell holders and other reloading stuff so I cans see what's all there.

When I come back there for deer hunting in November I'll stop by your place there Miles. Afterwards I'll hit Turning Stone Casino for a little bit.

 

[MilesTeg]

The brass I have is picked up at the gravel pits up in the national forest lands. I pick it all up, the brass I generally clean it up to keep, trade or give it away.as far as shooting goes I'm not into long range precision shooting. Most of the pits I go to are a hundred yards or less.
The one I go to alot is split, upper level and lower level. We can can get a hundred yards, but shoot between 35 to 65 yards.

These crimped pieces or brass are just plinking brass. Once we get the loads made up i will go ahead and make a bunch up.

When the grandson gets bigger and gets more into the precision shooting I will buy new high quality brass, but until then this free brass is the ticket.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miles did you get your bench built?

Lol I can't even get the workers to finish the house. Right now everyone says they have 3 days of work left but I cant get anyone to show up. I keep working over there until dark every night. Hopefully soon we need to get out of where we are living sooner than later.

 

[MilesTeg]

Tonight w
I went up in my gun room to finish using up the six pack of the Hornady lock n load bushings I bought a couple of days ago and look what I found on the bottom of one of the stacks of reloading dies.
View attachment 31671

So the decision is made on what direction I will go for now.i forgot I bought that dies set, probably bought it a year or so ago on one of my Budweiser nights.
I will set it up tomorrow night and give it a work out.
Damn I like surprised. The bottom of the three stacks of dies are behind the scales, powder trickles, packs of shell holders and other reloading stuff so I cans see what's all there.

When I come back there for deer hunting in November I'll stop by your place there Miles. Afterwards I'll hit Turning Stone Casino for a little bit.

What press are you using?

 

[HighlandLofts]

Hornady Lock N Load single stage press.

 

[MilesTeg]

I think this will work with your press. It was by far one the best upgrade I did to my SS press.

Case ejector system for Hornady single stage classic & Pacific 007 - Inline Fabrication

 

[HighlandLofts]

I like that die plate on the back of that press. I will be picking up stuff like that probably after X-Mas. I have the encore to pick up, then my three week deer hunting trip back there and then x-mas for the grandkids.

What press are you using?

Here are three hoses we just built since last fall. Thete is a foundation out back of these that we will be framing next after the one we are framing now.

Here is the back of the house we just got done, I am doing the landscaping and final touch ups.

 

[MilesTeg]

I like that die plate on the back of that press. I will be picking up stuff like that probably after X-Mas. I have the encore to pick up, then my three week deer hunting trip back there and then x-mas for the grandkids.

What press are you using?

Here are three hoses we just built since last fall. Thete is a foundation out back of these that we will be framing next after the one we are framing now. View attachment 31688

Here is the back of the house we just got done, I am doing the landscaping and final touch ups.
View attachment 31689 View attachment 31689

I currently use a RCBS. That case kicker is worth every penny I can prep 500 pistol brass now in the time it use to to take me to do 100. I will have to update my house thread here soon to show the lack of progress.