6.5 Grendel Mags Question

[MillidotShooter]

I am sure this is going to aggravate a few who will say WHY? Just leave it alone P***y….!, but….., I have a 20” 6.5 Grendel Build coming up and I want to be NY Compliant. So… I plan on locking the Mag in place with the MA Mag lock since I want a muzzle brake, Pistol Grip and other such EVIL features, (and I don’t trust that SOMEBODY in authority in NY wouldn’t show up at some NY Range that actually doesn’t care what you shoot and say oh… Non-Compliant… Off to jail with ya! Because that WOULD be my luck!) So, what I want to know is, if I pin a 10rd 6.5 Grendel mag in the lower, will that mag also work for .223/5.56. I have seen a lot of online forum posts that say putting 6.5 Grendel in a 5.56 mag bulges the mag due to ribs in the mag and the follower being a different profile, as well as feeding and ramp issues. I am wondering if the reverse is true. Or, could I just swap the spring and follower from a .223/5.56 10 Rd Mag on the fly? I have an upper assembly in .223 Wylde (with 5.56 MA Loaders on order) I would like to use at the range (without headache!) by just swapping uppers on-site... (ie. 2 Uppers utilizing 1 Lower) Or am I going to HAVE to get a new lower and pin that mag as well? Honestly, I just don’t feel like dealing with any of the NY BS. Moving to PA next year and can do whatever then, but for now I just want to be correct. Any advice would be appreciated…

 

[meketrefe]

No it will not work.
Your best bet would be to use the 223 and only load 3-4 grendel until they do not stack up. A 6.8 might work better but 223 will still have issues.
And you dont need to pin a magazine neither. If it mskes you feel better just screw it with a small bolt from the inside so it can be exchanged at some point.

 

[1075tech]

Short answer is no. That being said, I can get 5 6.5Grr rounds in a 10 round pmag. I have not had any problems with function. Use a t-nut or if you don't mind spending a couple dollars, get a Prince 50. Either one meets the letter of the law. Both are easily reversed so you can change mags for the upper of your choice.

 

[meketrefe]

Another uption is to buy a unimag and shorten that one to 10-9 rounds.
But bolting the mag from the inside is 100% compliant as it is canceling the mag release button.

 

[@thewheels]

Agree with tips mentioned above.
Don't try feeding 10 rounds of 6.5 from a standard mag unless you want a little extra frustration in life or aren't looking for much in the way of reliable feeding.

Personal opinion: Go featureless and then use the same lower for 6.5 Grendel and .223/5.56 uppers and swap mags at will.

 

[MillidotShooter]

Thanks everyone for your input. This is my first custom build... So, my understanding is that there is a significant "Gray Area" in the realm of MA Locks Vs. Internal Bolts Vs. Bullet Buttons and the like, in that those things are completely up to the particular officer's interpretation (at that moment) of what constitutes "ATTACHED" magazine and the DA's willingness to prosecute such cases. (Which in my neck of the lower Hudson would probably see me sitting in Sing-Sing) That being said, I would prefer NOT to have to drill holes in my lower mag well, thus why I was intending on using the MA Maglock and putting epoxy over the screw hole.

I can get 5 6.5Grr rounds in a 10 round pmag.

So if I pin a 10 Rd 5.56 Pmag I SHOULD be able to cycle 5 Rds of 6.5 relatively without issue?

Another option is to buy a unimag and shorten that one to 10-9 rounds.

Can Unimags be cut down to 10 Rds of 5.56...? All I see on their site are 30 rd mags which are illegal in NY. Is there a video on how to do that? Has anybody ever tried?

I want to be legal, but still, keep a pistol grip and muzzle brake...

 

[1075tech]

So if I pin a 10 Rd 5.56 Pmag I SHOULD be able to cycle 5 Rds of 6.5 relatively without issue?

I was able to. YMMV.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Problem solved

 

[meketrefe]

Thanks everyone for your input. This is my first custom build... So, my understanding is that there is a significant "Gray Area" in the realm of MA Locks Vs. Internal Bolts Vs. Bullet Buttons and the like, in that those things are completely up to the particular officer's interpretation (at that moment) of what constitutes "ATTACHED" magazine and the DA's willingness to prosecute such cases. (Which in my neck of the lower Hudson would probably see me sitting in Sing-Sing) That being said, I would prefer NOT to have to drill holes in my lower mag well, thus why I was intending on using the MA Maglock and putting epoxy over the screw hole.



So if I pin a 10 Rd 5.56 Pmag I SHOULD be able to cycle 5 Rds of 6.5 relatively without issue?



Can Unimags be cut down to 10 Rds of 5.56...? All I see on their site are 30 rd mags which are illegal in NY. Is there a video on how to do that? Has anybody ever tried?

I want to be legal, but still, keep a pistol grip and muzzle brake...

The 223 will stack 5 or 6 grendels. the 6.8 can work too but then the 223 wil have issues.
Whether they give you issues or not depends on other factors like you might have to shorten the lips a tad if your ramps
are not shallow enough. possibly close the lips a tad too so they will not fail if they jump from the stack,
or even between receivers a 10-30 thousands tolerance difference in magazine height location can make a difference.
Also depending on the bullets since flat points and varmiters with an open meplat might catch.
The best thing is to try several mags and I am guessing based on the wildcats the C prodcuts might work well and
it is pretty maleable. a stanag might also work well.
The thing is polymer ones where can can shave a bit of the ribs are probably a great choice too for the retrofit but
then the problem is you do you do not have a way to bend the lips a bit.

no magazine is illegal. Nobody sells those other than the gangs and thugs in street corners.
NY Compliant or no depends on many factors and also what caliber.
why you think the uni-mag are "illegal"? for a socom they are 10rd mags. It says socom in the list of calibers.
if you are going to use them with other rounds you better cut them that is something simple if one knows how to
use a hack saw and drill for some metal screws and/or rivets.

Also did you read what I said that you do can simply bolt a magazine to the receiver from the inside.
If one is worried about this for some reason then one should worry about putting together any sort of "scary black
gun" because if an uninformed someone is going to give you grief about something with a fixed magazine it doesn't
matter at all if the magazine is welded, pinned or screwed with a blind internal screw.
You should ask the SAFE hotline and ask them and I believe they still take registrations of old guns for
people they forgot they had them.
Anyone not sleeping well at night should give them a call and find out and that might resolve all your
doubts about direction before one goes down rabbit holes.
Everyone should also watch the videos form the SAFE education sessions form Mike Green and Mr. hogan from NYSP
and then learn how all this pinning + welding + epoxying and whatever is not required.
If I had your anxiety I would call them up.

In any case I have several AR mags I can test to give you feedback since I use all sort brands variants that I use mostly in bolt guns because
they have the longest COAL for the longest rounds for target shooting with the bolt gun.

happy to do taht if that hepls but you have to tell me what brands of mags do you have or can purchase that are ny compliant
and I am guessing you are in ny state.

 

[meketrefe]

Problem solved
View attachment 79697

I am afraid that receiver is going to eat my corn. lol

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

I am afraid that receiver is going to eat my corn. lol

Never really saw that before.

 

[MillidotShooter]

The 223 will stack 5 or 6 grendels. the 6.8 can work too but then the 223 wil have issues.
Whether they give you issues or not depends on other factors like you might have to shorten the lips a tad if your ramps
are not shallow enough. possibly close the lips a tad too so they will not fail if they jump from the stack,
or even between receivers a 10-30 thousands tolerance difference in magazine height location can make a difference.
Also depending on the bullets since flat points and varmiters with an open meplat might catch.
The best thing is to try several mags and I am guessing based on the wildcats the C prodcuts might work well and
it is pretty maleable. a stanag might also work well.
The thing is polymer ones where can can shave a bit of the ribs are probably a great choice too for the retrofit but
then the problem is you do you do not have a way to bend the lips a bit.

no magazine is illegal. Nobody sells those other than the gangs and thugs in street corners.
NY Compliant or no depends on many factors and also what caliber.
why you think the uni-mag are "illegal"? for a socom they are 10rd mags. It says socom in the list of calibers.
if you are going to use them with other rounds you better cut them that is something simple if one knows how to
use a hack saw and drill for some metal screws and/or rivets.

Also did you read what I said that you do can simply bolt a magazine to the receiver from the inside.
If one is worried about this for some reason then one should worry about putting together any sort of "scary black
gun" because if an uninformed someone is going to give you grief about something with a fixed magazine it doesn't
matter at all if the magazine is welded, pinned or screwed with a blind internal screw.
You should ask the SAFE hotline and ask them and I believe they still take registrations of old guns for
people they forgot they had them.
Anyone not sleeping well at night should give them a call and find out and that might resolve all your
doubts about direction before one goes down rabbit holes.
Everyone should also watch the videos form the SAFE education sessions form Mike Green and Mr. hogan from NYSP
and then learn how all this pinning + welding + epoxying and whatever is not required.
If I had your anxiety I would call them up.

In any case I have several AR mags I can test to give you feedback since I use all sort brands variants that I use mostly in bolt guns because
they have the longest COAL for the longest rounds for target shooting with the bolt gun.

happy to do taht if that hepls but you have to tell me what brands of mags do you have or can purchase that are ny compliant
and I am guessing you are in ny state.

It's not anxiety. I am a Desert Storm combat vet... and know how to use a weapon.... I know how to build a weapon... (Built the lower last night and I am just waiting on the MA Lock. Have everything else except barrel, gas block, and tube) I know they are not "Scary Black Guns" as you stated. I had AR's for years (all in 5.56), but I married a woman who didn't like firearms so I got rid of most of them. She softened a great deal, but, I just never got around to buying or building another AR. Then SAFE came around and everything changed. It doesn't keep me awake, I just DON'T feel like getting involved in some pissing contest with some overzealous NYSP Trooper or County Sheriff, AND I DON'T want to start drilling holes in a brand new lower. I would prefer to utilize something that is NOT going to damage the lower so I can UNDO all this crap when I move next year.

And as to why Unimags would, in my mind, be illegal... Because UNLESS you are in possession of a SOCOM upper, which I am not, nor plan to be, then they are "TECHNICALLY" high capacity mags for any other round. At that point, you are getting into semantics, which again, is just another pissing contest, to which I don't want to be the crash test dummy for, since getting caught with one in this shit-hole Anti 2A state is now a damn Class E Felony. And cutting them down is something I have never done before. I am just trying to find the simplest solution to satisfy my own requirements for this build. As of right now, I have AR Stoner 6.5 10 rd steel C-mags (all I could find in a 10rd) and Magpul 10rd Pmags in 5.56. But all the forums I read said you should NEVER pin a steel mag since they are such a pain in the ass to disassemble. IF Unimag made 10 Rd 5.56 I would buy them and call it a day. They don't so I have to find an alternative that keeps me legal while keeping all the other things I want. So if I need to file a follower and shave a lip or rib I can do that. But NO holes....

As to ammo, this is a range rifle (20" w/ Rifle length gas tube, buffer, and spring) and I plan on using factory JHPBT or FMJBT. (I don't know how to reload. Never learned and the cost of equipment was more than I was willing to spend) So I shouldn't really have any crown catch or COAL issues. This was just something where I got a bug up my ass and decided to try something new. Something I had never shot before. I chose the Grendel because my brother is building a Blackout and we wanted to try different calibers for shits and giggles. Should have done more research, but it's a little late for that. In for a penny...

IF you find a particular PMag that works well and can let me know, I would appreciate it greatly... Thanks for your input...

 

[Apeman]

7.62x39 and 6.5 grendel can use the same mags. I have/had a rifle in both and a pistol in 7.62x39 with a pinned mag. I'm using a 10 round steel mag for it. It's not hard to take the bottom off and drop the spring and follower if necessary. Stick a small allen wrench in the hole and pull up while you slide the base off. Leave the allen wrench or something similar in the grip on case you need it. I didn't spend a lot of time looking for alternative mags but there might be some out there.

 

[meketrefe]

@MillidotShooter
I will check several types I have to see which ones might work best feeding the Grendel rounds.
But there is something still didnt understand... if you are not pinnig or tapping anything what is preventing you from opening the receiver, removing whatever lock and simply exchanging the magazine for the right type between shooting sessions?

 

[MillidotShooter]

@MillidotShooter
I will check several types I have to see which ones might work best feeding the Grendel rounds.
But there is something still didnt understand... if you are not pinnig or tapping anything what is preventing you from opening the receiver, removing whatever lock and simply exchanging the magazine for the right type between shooting sessions?

The Ma Magazine lock from MEAN Inc. is only removable with an EZ-Out drill tool. It replaces the MOE magazine release button with one that has no spring and screws into the magazine catch. It has a breakaway torque head that snaps free once the proper pressure is applied, leaving the screw threads inside the "Fake" Mag release button. This essentially makes the mag a permanent part of the lower. At least to the extent that the mag SHOULDN'T be able to be releasable without drilling it out. BUT, this doesn't damage or otherwise alter the lower itself to become compliant since it uses the existing features of the magazine release. From what I have been told, this is considered MORE of an acceptable form of disabling the Magazine loading capability and is "Supposed" to remove the AW designation... allowing for muzzle Brakes, Collapsible stocks, pistol grips, etc. So unless you carry a drill with you, they can not prove intent to disassemble. Whereas, bolting THROUGH the mag into the lower is reversed with simple tools you could carry in your range bag. This is what has been explained to me by people I know who were frontline in trying to keep this law from passing... Look at it this way... It's like having Locksmith tools on you. Police would call them Burglary Tools. And it Doesn't matter if you actually use them... Having them shows intent UNLESS you are a licensed locksmith on your way to a job, or to and from work.... So pinning through the mag, as I have been told, is NOT an acceptable way of disabling the feature under the "Spirit" of the law, meaning you could be prosecuted for possession if the officer deems it unacceptable... Will they? Who the hell knows. And I don't want to find out so why take the chance. Welding is the truest form of disabling the feature, but, that destroys the lower. So my intent is to keep two uppers of different calibers and just swap the uppers as I see fit. Since the upper is not considered a firearm, there is nothing illegal about it. I also don't want to buy another lower and pin that because, as I said, my wife has "Softened"... That does not mean she has gone "Soft". But the MEAN MA Lock means only one magazine could be used in the rifle UNTIL you drill out the lock and replace the mag and replace the lock... They are $20 a piece...! So if I could find a mag that works to feed BOTH 5.56 AND 6.5 Grendel with some measure of reliability with a 10 rd capacity, I would be satisfied... FOR NOW! At least I will be able to shoot at a NY range without having to drive 2 1/2 to PA Game Lands... And IF NYSP or County Sheriff ever showed up to check people Gun(Because they are within full rights to do so) I would be correct and in no danger of being arrested for having an unlicensed AW. And next year when I move to PA I will drill out the locks... Rock 100 Rd drums and blast the hell out of shit on my OWN property without worrying about whether or not I will get arrested for having more than 10 rounds in a firearm and detachable mags... For now though... It's an MA lock and epoxy over the screw head...

This is a video to explain the MEAN MA Lock...

 

[meketrefe]

I see... there are other ways to get the magazine locked w/o drilling anything in or out and still could be taken out with tools if needed but w/o drilling.
Any magazine release button that doesn't work when pressed (it doesn't release the magazine) makes the gun with a non detachable magazine and it doesn't matter if it is a pressure fit, an internal screw (that one could actually disassemble for cleaning) a weld or epoxy, etc....
Anyone checking on a firearm because of suspicion is not going to go any further or if it is going to give someone grief is going to happen anyway regardless of the methods mentioned above. But nobody here or in other ny state forums have seen any law enforcement in the ranges interested in
checking on this stuff average people are using while in fact they show up quite a lot. They are more interested in people following general safety rules, compliance of the range or if they are in fact calls for whatever other reason. Even if there was a concern after a person best attempt for compliance this would be in form of a warning as stated by law. These are facts not conjectures. Call the hotline o local pd and find out. this is a lot better than the "someone told me" or "I read in the internet" that is all over the place. It is like people who continue welding their brakes based on sunset ban tradition.

I will check several mags and let you know what I think might be more suitable for the G and initially will have to be something where the lips can be closed so slightly. might also need a stone to smooth up the burrs from the lips since the grendel geometry is not the best for easy feeding in gas guns like any BR 30 degree or so style shoulder like the BR itself, creed, dashers, etc..

One round that is really nice to use 223 mags is the 6x45 (or 6tcu also) and one can do lots of things one cannot do with the 22 bullets. One has to reload but all one needs to start reloading is not expensive and it almost fits in a shoe box.

 

[FrankenCub]

I'm cheap, I couldn't justify spending $20+ on a way to lock the mag when a t-nut only cost $.25
NYSP here in troope C only check to see if the mag drops when the release is pressed. They don't care how you stop it. I put a tac weld on the t-nut so it can't be spun off but the mag release is still easily replaced. I'm using a Pmag in mine. Just seconds to pull it apart. Although I'm only running 5.56/.223
Haven't decided on my next upper yet, leaning either 6.8 or .204 Ruger