6 Creed barrel smoked? Opinions?

[Carlos Hathcock]

Stock Ruger RPR 6 Creed takeoff barrel. Just rolled in the mail today. Planned to swap myself, first time. Looking for opinions from those with more experience. Points of interest:

Seller:
1. Another well known online forum. Long time member. No red flags. Bought much from many on there, no issues. Most all are honest and knowledgable.
2. Claims 265 rounds with Tubbs final finish rounds and proper break in procedure.
3. I know he had found a sweet spot running 42.5g H4350 with 105g Berger Hybrids (3100fps). Stout load but claimed no pressure signs. Don't know how many he ran down at that charge. I know he also ran some 107SMK's too but never mentioned charge weight.

Barrel:
1. Surprised to see buildup so heavy near the muzzle. Possible. Mine gets dirty.
2. Looked like he never cleaned it?Running some Butches Bore shine through it now.
3. Surprised to see some fire cracking already. Not as bad as mine with 1700+ plus rounds but still present, not too far from the throat, maybe under 1/2 long from lands start. Not sure how hard be pounded his loads.

NYGF:
1. What do you think? Condition seem reasonable with the info. provided?
2. Should I mount it and see what it does? Send it back?
3. If someone recommends returning, I want to make sure I have good reason. Don't want to insult someone 'cause I'm too green to know better. Didn't spend a kings ransom.

Opinions please. Thanks.


Looks like some misc. brass in the chamber...

First patch down....

 

[Exonautic]

In my non professional home gunsmiths opinion, it seems like his loads were bordering on too hot for the gun. Give the barrel a thorough cleaning and see what the lands look like. What kinda buildup is on the face of the barrel? And is a rpr chamber normally that prominent on machine marks.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

That load is above posted but also claimed no pressure signs. I doubt I'd run mine that hot. Muzzle buildup is carbon. I've seen that on mine and dont remember how many rounds I had before I cleaned mine off. Not sure about your chamber comment?

 

[Exonautic]

That load is above posted but also claimed no pressure signs. I doubt I'd run mine that hot. Muzzle buildup is carbon. I've seen that on mine and dont remember how many rounds I had before I cleaned mine off. Not sure about your chamber comment?

Have some prominent lines in the chamber. I may be wrong but I thought that was a sign of over pressure over time. But if that's normal for that chamber than it's not an issue. However brass being left in it means there could have been some hard extraction.

 

[Exonautic]

Also, misplaced on that question about the buildup. I thought that was the face of the barrel lining up against the receiver.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Sorry. Those brass signs appear to be "slivers" and not embedded into the chamber. I'm pretty sure the machine marks in the chamber are normal. Think I recall seeing them in mine. That bore scope is really right on top of the surface so it could be considered magnified.

 

[Exonautic]

In my opinion, might as well just mount it and see what happens. I wouldn't say it is worth sending it back being that you knew he was running over book loads with a not insignificant number of rounds fired given that load. It may not have shown pressure signs but it will still wear faster, so while it's only had <300 time put through it, it may show equivalent wear to what you'd expect from a 4-500 round gun.

 

[kev74]

Don't over think it.

Some people go by 'if it shoots well, don't mess with it'. Give it a good cleaning and see how it shoots.

The bore scope is only a tool. Don't let it make you crazy looking for problems where there aren't any.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Ran a brush with some Butch's and some more patches. Looks a little better. Suppose I can run it and see what it does. Thanks for the input.

 

[Exonautic]

Don't over think it.

Some people go by 'if it shoots well, don't mess with it'. Give it a good cleaning and see how it shoots.

The bore scope is only a tool. Don't let it make you crazy looking for problems where there aren't any.

I am a professional at overthinking things so this ran right up my alley.

 

[meketrefe]

Those are transversal cracks from a hardening process of the metal that is induced by heat.
That is called heat checking or as some say fire-cracking so that barrel has been shoot a lot.
The heat is what wears out the barrels and that is a factor of both the volume of powder and side of the bore.
So while this barrel might be ok to shoot it is probably much closer to the end of life in terms of maximum accuracy.

Like those barrels that are used for competition that in the 260 I had them between 1000 to 1500 rounds shot and
much less with a 6mm for the same capacity. Still good for many rounds and other builds for shooting steel or hunting but
not for competition.
Again this would be for what BR shooters would expect for maximum precision for score type shooting but it is not
written in stone and not always a factor of lost free-bore unlike some think.

I don't share the common believe that throat erosion is always a huge factor in continued accuracy since there are calibers
that are very forgiving in terms of the jump to the lands and depending on the bullets if one stays away from tangent
ogive vlds that are most susceptible to the jump.

I would say the heat checking is the one single indicator that says a barrel has been through some serious amount
of heat cycles and all the metallurgic stresses associated with that and that why I stay away from used barrels in 22, 6mm
and 6.5mm in 'hot' cartridges like this 6mm, and obvious, unless I know the source first hand.

Sometimes is hard to say from computer pictures since it is not he same that actually inspecting the barrel in person up
close but that looks like it could be the case here.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Those are transversal cracks from a hardening process of the metal that is induced by heat.
That is called heat checking or as some say fire-cracking so that barrel has been shoot a lot.
The heat is what wears out the barrels and that is a factor of both the volume of powder and side of the bore.
So while this barrel might be ok to shoot it is probably much closer to the end of life in terms of maximum accuracy.

Like those barrels that are used for competition that in the 260 I had them between 1000 to 1500 rounds shot and
much less with a 6mm for the same capacity. Still good for many rounds and other builds for shooting steel or hunting but
not for competition.
Again this would be for what BR shooters would expect for maximum precision for score type shooting but it is not
written in stone and not always a factor of lost free-bore unlike some think.

I don't share the common believe that throat erosion is always a huge factor in continued accuracy since there are calibers
that are very forgiving in terms of the jump to the lands and depending on the bullets if one stays away from tangent
ogive vlds that are most susceptible to the jump.

I would say the heat checking is the one single indicator that says a barrel has been through some serious amount
of heat cycles and all the metallurgic stresses associated with that and that why I stay away from used barrels in 22, 6mm
and 6.5mm in 'hot' cartridges like this 6mm, and obvious, unless I know the source first hand.

Sometimes is hard to say from computer pictures since it is not he same that actually inspecting the barrel in person up
close but that looks like it could be the case here.

You've always been helpful, and I respect your opinion. So, to summarize, would you say that the sub 300 round count, even with all being potentially "hot" loads, could be understated and that this one has seen more action than reported?

 

[tony]

An important thing to remember is that the 6mm creedmoor has an SAAMI max. pressure of 62,000 psi. If the original owners loads were hotter than published standards expect faster velocities AND increased barrel and throat erosion. The heat checking or erosion is also an indicator of a rifle used in competition that involved strings of rapid fire. Timed and slow fire strings such as 45 shots in 45 minutes will yield the same results. The issue arises when the barrel does nothing but get hotter and hotter until the event is over and the rifle is allowed to cool. The damage has been done but the rifle generally will still show excellent accuracy.

While the headspace doesn't change, throat erosion can become a problem and influence accuracy. I have heard of competitors that set the barrel back, re-cut the chamber and get some of the accuracy back.

Just a guess on my part but it wouldn't surprise me if the 6 mm Creedmoor had barrel life of 1 - 2,000 rds. if used in a competitive environment. That would be with a high quality match grade hand lapped barrel. I would think a production grade barrel would be less. That is not to say it would be junk but no longer accurate enough to put all shots in the X-ring. It would probably still be more than adequate for varmint or deer hunting.

Good luck.

 

[meketrefe]

You've always been helpful, and I respect your opinion. So, to summarize, would you say that the sub 300 round count, even with all being potentially "hot" loads, could be understated and that this one has seen more action than reported?

The aligator skin marks are not the worse but based on the caliber and track record of those type of puchases I would say this has more rounds.
And again if it is 400 or 500 what type of loads and this means the barrel.is well past the half life, accuracy life.
But if you paid 100 bucks for it then it would be fair.
What are your goals and expectations?
Are you using this for competition or just playing around?

 

[meketrefe]

Btw... ruger doesnt make good barels. They are not bad but the consistency, materials and qc is not there.
Who makes good barrels in popular rifles?
Bergara and Savage for budget type. Some womchester/fn barrels are also very good.
Then, the custom builders make the best barrels. It is a matter of how much money are you willing to invest.
My best barrels are Lothar Walter, Krieger, shilen, rock river, Lilja and a coiple of others.
Savage has been smazing for the cost.
I had good luck with a couple of budget Stoner that are OEMs.
Garbage barrels came with Remington, Ruger, BlackHole weaponry, PSA deals, etc.
It all really depends on what deals you find and investment and also what purpose and expectations .

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Btw... ruger doesnt make good barels. They are not bad but the consistency, materials and qc is not there.
Who makes good barrels in popular rifles?
Bergara and Savage for budget type. Some womchester/fn barrels are also very good.
Then, the custom builders make the best barrels. It is a matter of how much money are you willing to invest.
My best barrels are Lothar Walter, Krieger, shilen, rock river, Lilja and a coiple of others.
Savage has been smazing for the cost.
I had good luck with a couple of budget Stoner that are OEMs.
Garbage barrels came with Remington, Ruger, BlackHole weaponry, PSA deals, etc.
It all really depends on what deals you find and investment and also what purpose and expectations .

Invested around what you guessed. Local fun competition so no trophies. I might mildy disagree on the RPR barrel quality. First factory barrel usually touched 5 at 100, and sometimes 5 in 2 and 3 holes. Still considering a higher quality barrel as well, some on your list. I guess you get what you get sight unseen and I didn't have a ton invested in it. Thanks as always.

 

[meketrefe]

Invested around what you guessed. Local fun competition so no trophies. I might mildy disagree on the RPR barrel quality. First factory barrel usually touched 5 at 100, and sometimes 5 in 2 and 3 holes. Still considering a higher quality barrel as well, some on your list. I guess you get what you get sight unseen and I didn't have a ton invested in it. Thanks as always.

No problem. My pleasure. Juat to clarify.. It doesnt mean they a given ruger cannot shoot but it is a hit and miss situation. Consistency and repeatibility are not there.

 

[Shoots100]

While I don't have any experience with the 6 CM, I have replaced/cut back many 6 dasher and 6br barrels that looked better than that barrel.
OK for plinking, if that's your intended use.
Many factory barrels are good, but after you try a quality barrel, you'll use that factory barrel as a tomato stake.
Use that barrel and save up for a quality barrel, as there are many drop in barrels available for the RPR now.
SJC

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Swap complete. Separate thread to follow....