A-2413, police take temp custody of firearms, on agenda

[Truebeliever]

I got to get a few more ducks in my row, once I do I will be able to leave this profession. I have been in this line of work we're going on 17 years, I cannot wait to get out of it. I'm long for the day when the uniform never gets placed back on.

I do really recommend retirement -lol
Except these “ extra” rights guys complain about all but disappear . Buy what you want now and can keep. All of these “high “ capacity magazines you don’t qualify with your department in your last 12 months of service become contraband the second you retire. Get some ten rounders for them . That fancy semi-auto rifle you might have , has to have any evil features removed or moved out-of-state before you retire unless you can qualify with it—
But other than — it’s good.

 

[spat]

Go look at quote again

"blame the legislature for passing the laws, not us for supporting them".
I don’t I think I had that “supporting them “ in my statement at all.
Now, you make a Nazi reference, comparing a cop who works with a guy to the criminal who is the get-away driver and to the guys who drove the trains .

So that other cop should do what in your mind ? Virtue signal and quit? Who’s left.

Now, a different cop makes an arrest you don’t agree with. And a cop of the same rank helps the process the arrest and has no decision making ability to stop the arrest. You would want that other cop there who could speed up the process to get that person in and out as fast as possible with as little headaches. I say this from experience from when a cop’s family member or another cop themselves are arrested on nonsense. Your Nazi and criminal comparisons not only don’t fit the circumstances but are just insulting.

What would you do if you joined the Berlin police force in 1920.

Then in 1942 you were sent to a call about a report of someone harboring jews ?

Do you "not MY fault, I'm not murdering anyone, I'm just arresting them and letting the judge sort it out", or do you say "fuck this shit" ?

How about if you are the guy booking the Frank family into the jail ?

You see the problem with "not my fault" ?



Also, the bank robbers and drug dealers are just doing their job too. Arguably their employer is less corrupt than yours.


Also, if you are enforcing a law, or advocating that someone else enforces it, then you are supporting it. Without that sort of support it would collapse.

 

[GOPerfect]

I do really recommend retirement -lol
Except these “ extra” rights guys complain about all but disappear . Buy what you want now and can keep. All of these “high “ capacity magazines you don’t qualify with your department in your last 12 months of service become contraband the second you retire. Get some ten rounders for them . That fancy semi-auto rifle you might have , has to have any evil features removed or moved out-of-state before you retire unless you can qualify with it—
But other than — it’s good.

None of this concerns me. Upon leaving the department, I will be leaving, hoping in the next few months.

Being a cop now, sucks. Very little honor, little self respect and so many officers lack the ability to honor their Oaths of office. They do not represent or serve the people. They serve themselves and the elected class only.

As I read these comments, in this thread as well as many others, there are so many that do not understand the tribulations of being a cop right now. We definitely live in interesting times. The comparison to Nazi Germany, I do not thinks fits at all.

Some of these laws, they are not as easy to manipulate as so many think. This is a huge reason so many are leaving their departments. Cops are leaving at a much higher rate than they can be replaced. Wait until the people of the area see the newest class in the City of Buffalo. Wow and sad at the same time.

There are many people that became cops for the right reasons, those reasons; almost impossible to hold onto to them. I hear many say, just quit, takes time. Gotta get things lined up prior to leaving.

 

[GOPerfect]

Also, if you are enforcing a law, or advocating that someone else enforces it, then you are supporting it. Without that sort of support it would collapse.

So, I see what you are saying here. I really do. For every ten cops that do not support on of these laws, there is at least five that will do the bidding of the elected. This is not as cut and dry as you make it seem in your typed words. There is always one that will. Again, one of the reasons for the mass exodus from departments. The ones that are leaving, most are the good guys that we as citizens want on the team. They are leaving to go do anything else. What is left? My friend Spat, it is frightening. Down right scary.

This is an almost perfect example, I shit you not.

 

[Criticalt]

That’s a completely different case and circumstances. He was arrested but I have no idea why they need a release from the DA’s office unless there is something you don’t know about. With the second draw, it came in under the influence, correct? The DA might still might decide to prosecute claiming he was drunk when driving and enough time had past for him to pass by the time the second draw was done.
But I still don’t understand why it was vouchered the way it was. It should have been vouchered as investigatory evidence for the guys who run the permits, or safekeeping. It sounds like it was vouchered as arrest evidence connected to the DWI. That might be why he is having an issue getting it back. Once it was arrest evidence— the DA has to sign off on it. And the DA is why would I return arrest evidence if I might decide to press charges later— not knowing it is not really related to their case.

This was over a year ago, Jan 2022, no charges and no conviction.
The NYSP claim its the state of NY who will not allow them to release the firearm.
The state says the local DA or NYSP have to release it.
There may be more to the story but he hasnt been charged with anything or convicted. And, he still has his carry permit, so obviously there isnt an issue there.
He has recently hired an attorney to figure it out.
He has already given his lawyer $1900.
Ironically, the firearm in question is a Ruger P95 from the mid 1990s.
He bought and carried this $150 gun for this exact reason.
This is all from a "guy" at a gun shop and the FFL who has been working on getting the firearm released. The FFL says this isnt unusual in NYS.

 

[spat]

So, I see what you are saying here. I really do. For every ten cops that do not support on of these laws, there is at least five that will do the bidding of the elected. This is not as cut and dry as you make it seem in your typed words. There is always one that will. Again, one of the reasons for the mass exodus from departments. The ones that are leaving, most are the good guys that we as citizens want on the team. They are leaving to go do anything else. What is left? My friend Spat, it is frightening. Down right scary.

This is an almost perfect example, I shit you not.

No, I realize that is the result. The good cops leave because they are being asked to do things they find morally objectionable.

And I realize that leaves the departments with just the rotten ones.

But what that really means, is that once things get bad enough that real resistance is justified, then you need not concern yourself with whether you are unintentionally targeting a good guy in bad situation or not.

Once all the decent cops have said "fuck this shit, I'll find something else", and the only ones left are the ones for whom an atrocity isn't a deal breaker, then you can pull that trigger without guilt.

 

[Truebeliever]

What would you do if you joined the Berlin police force in 1920.

Then in 1942 you were sent to a call about a report of someone harboring jews ?

Do you "not MY fault, I'm not murdering anyone, I'm just arresting them and letting the judge sort it out", or do you say "fuck this shit" ?

How about if you are the guy booking the Frank family into the jail ?

You see the problem with "not my fault" ?



Also, the bank robbers and drug dealers are just doing their job too. Arguably their employer is less corrupt than yours.


Also, if you are enforcing a law, or advocating that someone else enforces it, then you are supporting it. Without that sort of support it would collapse.

Good question. How many German police officers rounded up Jews and how many turned a blind eye? We don’t know. Again let’s use the Oskar Schindler example. If he virtue signaled like you suggest , hundreds of more jews would have been sent to the gas chambers.
Hitler purged most of the regular German police officers by 1936, and definitely the leadership.
A better analogy would be the French police under Vichy government. Some did it, some turned a blind eye. You can see the numbers of which regions complied if you want to look it up.

 

[spat]

Good question. How many German police officers rounded up Jews and how many turned a blind eye? We don’t know. Again let’s use the Oskar Schindler example. If he virtue signaled like you suggest , hundreds of more jews would have been sent to the gas chambers.
Hitler purged most of the regular German police officers by 1936, and definitely the leadership.
A better analogy would be the French police under Vichy government. Some did it, some turned a blind eye. You can see the numbers of which regions complied if you want to look it up.

Obviously if you're going to be an Oskar Schindler type you're a hero. But that's far riskier than just quitting.

I'm saying quitting is *the least* you can do without being responsible for the evil.

If your plan is to stay a cop, then let everyone violating an immoral law go free, then have at it. But don't stay a cop, then use the fact that you could get in trouble justify arresting someone who shouldn't be arrested.

 

[Darth]

How about this. Instead of bad mouthing police , wait and bad mouth the individual officer who does something. You are badmouthing people who haven’t done what you claim.

We do, and you say "well this one example, WHICH TOTALLY ISN'T HIS FAULT doesn't prove anything", literally hundreds of times over.

 

[Truebeliever]

Obviously if you're going to be an Oskar Schindler type you're a hero. But that's far riskier than just quitting.

I'm saying quitting is *the least* you can do without being responsible for the evil.

If your plan is to stay a cop, then let everyone violating an immoral law go free, then have at it. But don't stay a cop, then use the fact that you could get in trouble justify arresting someone who shouldn't be arrested.

How often is a cop out in that position ? Not very often if ever. And if put in that position, it’s too late to quit . That cop is now criminally and civilly liable at that point .

 

[Truebeliever]

We do, and you say "well this one example, WHICH TOTALLY ISN'T HIS FAULT doesn't prove anything", literally hundreds of times over.

Maybe. It depends on the circumstances. Unlike other laws and proposed laws, where the person intentionally breaks the law , this one is different.

 

[spat]

How often is a cop out in that position ? Not very often if ever. And if put in that position, it’s too late to quit . That cop is now criminally and civilly liable at that point .

It's never too late to quit.

If you're willing to do evil because you might get in trouble if you don't, then you're still doing evil.

If you choose to keep collecting the paycheck *knowing* you might be put in that situation, then you're responsible 100% for being there.

 

[Truebeliever]

It's never too late to quit.

If you're willing to do evil because you might get in trouble if you don't, then you're still doing evil.

If you choose to keep collecting the paycheck *knowing* you might be put in that situation, then you're responsible 100% for being there.

So if you are in the military then ordered to go a war you don’t believe in, you could just quit. Would you condemn the military members for not quitting ahead of time?

 

[spat]

So if you are in the military then ordered to go a war you don’t believe in, you could just quit. Would you condemn the military members for not quitting ahead of time?

What would *you* do if you were ordered to gun down some innocent village?

Do you just shoot some toddler in the head because "orders" ?

Or do you shoot the guy who gave the order if you have to ?


There is a big difference between "a war you don't believe in" and an actual immoral act.

Just like there is a difference between "go to Vietnam" and "kill everyone in the village of Mai Lai".

And no, even if the order to raze the village came directly down from the president with a unanimous endorsement from SCOTUS you don't follow it.

What part of "you are 100% responsible for 100% of *your* actions" do you not understand?

 

[Acer-m14]

?? what are the LEO's doing with all the invaders crossing the border and being shipped into other states and towns ..

turning a blind eye . oh the masters passed some EO or BS ..

i can't wait for a few good men to actually step up and start arresting them and who is trafficking them ...

 

[Truebeliever]

What would *you* do if you were ordered to gun down some innocent village?

Do you just shoot some toddler in the head because "orders" ?

Or do you shoot the guy who gave the order if you have to ?


There is a big difference between "a war you don't believe in" and an actual immoral act.

Just like there is a difference between "go to Vietnam" and "kill everyone in the village of Mai Lai".

And no, even if the order to raze the village came directly down from the president with a unanimous endorsement from SCOTUS you don't follow it.

What part of "you are 100% responsible for 100% of *your* actions" do you not understand?

So again you go to the extremes as if a police officer couldn’t be ordered to shoot somebody.
But what if the solider or airman refuses to load a plane with ordinance because it “might “ be used at some point.
Now take it further. If you were to be arrested for something, wouldn’t you want that officer to be one who was ordered against his own judgment to make that arrest and would have to testify to that, might intentionally make a reversible error mistake in the arrest etc . Or would you rather have that officer quit, leave it to one who would make that arrest in a heartbeat and believe in it?
Again , would you rather have an Oskar Schindler or someone else in such a situation?

 

[Truebeliever]

?? what are the LEO's doing with all the invaders crossing the border and being shipped into other states and towns ..

turning a blind eye . oh the masters passed some EO or BS ..

i can't wait for a few good men to actually step up and start arresting them and who is trafficking them ...

Really, you are going to blame the border patrol for the legalization of something? Either by EO or court order? Police don’t make the laws or determine case law. Blame the lawmakers .

 

[gunpoliticsny]

Some entertainment in Assembly Codes:

“… According to a video of the Codes Committee meeting viewed by NY1, things got heated when Committee Chair Jeffrey Dinowitz called for a vote on Westchester Democrat Amy Paulin’s bill, which requires police officers to take temporary custody of firearms when responding to reports of domestic violence. This was not the first time the bill had come before the committee and failed to gather enough votes to pass. Dinowitz, a Bronx Democrat, was challenged on that point by Manhattan Democrat Daniel O’Donnell … O’Donnell went on to say that it was unfair to the 149 other members of the House who can’t get their bills reconsidered. A short time later, a vote was held and once again, it didn’t have enough support to pass. After the vote, O’Donnell proceeded to walk out of the hearing room. As he passed Queens Assemblymember Carlina Cruz, a Democrat who voted in favor of the bill, he audibly whispered to her: “Grow a pair, honey.” Cruz became visibly upset, and immediately responded: “That was so disrespectful.” A few seconds later, Cruz stood up and declared: “I have something. I don’t care who is in here. I am a woman of color. I am an attorney. And to be spoken to like that, by a man. By a white man. In front of people. It is not ok.” Dinowitz then said: “I didn’t hear what he said. I’m sorry. What did he say?” As Cruz gets up to leave, she turns to Dinowitz and says: “He told me to grow a pair.” NY1 reached out to O’Donnell and Cruz for comment, but did not immediately hear back …”

 

[spat]

So again you go to the extremes as if a police officer couldn’t be ordered to shoot somebody.
But what if the solider or airman refuses to load a plane with ordinance because it “might “ be used at some point.
Now take it further. If you were to be arrested for something, wouldn’t you want that officer to be one who was ordered against his own judgment to make that arrest and would have to testify to that, might intentionally make a reversible error mistake in the arrest etc . Or would you rather have that officer quit, leave it to one who would make that arrest in a heartbeat and believe in it?
Again , would you rather have an Oskar Schindler or someone else in such a situation?

It comes down to what you trust.

If you're an airman loading ordnance into a plane, do *you* trust that is *isn't* going to be used to commit an atrocity ?

If you're a cop serving a warrant, do *you* trust that it was issued in an ethical way ?


If you trust those things are being used properly, then why are you afraid of being responsible if they aren't?

If you are afraid of being responsible If they turn out to be unethical, then you obviously have doubts that they are. If you have such doubts, then you should refuse to participate. It's that simple.

It is absolutely immoral and unethical for you to be willing to risk some strangers life or livelihood over the possibility that an order is bad, but not your own.

 

[Truebeliever]

It comes down to what you trust.

If you're an airman loading ordnance into a plane, do *you* trust that is *isn't* going to be used to commit an atrocity ?

If you're a cop serving a warrant, do *you* trust that it was issued in an ethical way ?


If you trust those things are being used properly, then why are you afraid of being responsible if they aren't?

If you are afraid of being responsible If they turn out to be unethical, then you obviously have doubts that they are. If you have such doubts, then you should refuse to participate. It's that simple.

It is absolutely immoral and unethical for you to be willing to risk some strangers life or livelihood over the possibility that an order is bad, but not your own.

It is a trust issue. What you speak of is rare occurrence. Very rare. Certain units tend to deal with pistol permit issues. And if you volunteer for that unit , you might have a point . But most domestics don’t involve a gun. Or it’s clear that person should be arrested.
And in those very rare cases , it might not be as clear cut as you think. And in those rare cases, you would want an Oskar Schindler.
Blame the lawmakers for these laws.

 

[spat]

It is a trust issue. What you speak of is rare occurrence. Very rare. Certain units tend to deal with pistol permit issues. And if you volunteer for that unit , you might have a point . But most domestics don’t involve a gun. Or it’s clear that person should be arrested.
And in those very rare cases , it might not be as clear cut as you think. And in those rare cases, you would want an Oskar Schindler.
Blame the lawmakers for these laws.

The lawmakers are 100% responsible for those laws.

They should all face trial and appropriate punishment for their conspiracy to violate our rights.

But, that doesn't mean that the people enforcing them aren't *also* 100% responsible for what they are doing.

If you find yourself a niche in LE where you think your odds of getting dragged into violating someone's rights are acceptably low, then have at it.

But when your luck runs out and you find yourself in that situation it should be you facing the consequences, not the innocent member of the public.

That's all I'm saying, take whatever chances you are willing to take, but when your luck runs out, if you try to pass the responsibility off on someone else, that makes you a POS.

 

[Truebeliever]

The lawmakers are 100% responsible for those laws.

They should all face trial and appropriate punishment for their conspiracy to violate our rights.

But, that doesn't mean that the people enforcing them aren't *also* 100% responsible for what they are doing.

If you find yourself a niche in LE where you think your odds of getting dragged into violating someone's rights are acceptably low, then have at it.

But when your luck runs out and you find yourself in that situation it should be you facing the consequences, not the innocent member of the public.

That's all I'm saying, take whatever chances you are willing to take, but when your luck runs out, if you try to pass the responsibility off on someone else, that makes you a POS.

So Oskar Schindler is on that list in your mind? Just think about it. It’s not as simple as you think.

 

[spat]

So Oskar Schindler is on that list in your mind? Just think about it. It’s not as simple as you think.

Yea, he took a risk and was a hero for it. If you're going to be a cop who will decide any "illegal" gun you see is invisible, that's good too.

But, if you're going to collect the paycheck, then when you see the 15rnd mag, run the guy in for it because "mah pension", then you're a POS.

What you're advocating is taking the risk you might have to do something bad, and then saying "well it's their fault for being jewish" when you are ordered to do something unspeakable.

 

[Acer-m14]

Really, you are going to blame the border patrol for the legalization of something? Either by EO or court order? Police don’t make the laws or determine case law. Blame the lawmakers .

no ... blaming them doing absolutely nothing


start arresting ...

8 U.S. Code Chapter 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Truebeliever]

Yea, he took a risk and was a hero for it. If you're going to be a cop who will decide any "illegal" gun you see is invisible, that's good too.

But, if you're going to collect the paycheck, then when you see the 15rnd mag, run the guy in for it because "mah pension", then you're a POS.

What you're advocating is taking the risk you might have to do something bad, and then saying "well it's their fault for being jewish" when you are ordered to do something unspeakable.

See how applying your prior statement of painting all cops with the same brush is wrong. And you, as in the general public , will never know who is that Oskar Schindler cop.

 

[spat]

See how applying your prior statement of painting all cops with the same brush is wrong. And you, as in the general public , will never know who is that Oskar Schindler cop.

What statement is that ?

I think you are reading something that I never said.

 

[Truebeliever]

no ... blaming them doing absolutely nothing


start arresting ...

8 U.S. Code Chapter 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY

www.law.cornell.edu

Go see the court decisions on the subject. The border patrol are arresting people and they are released into the US by under Biden to return for their court case at a later date, claiming asylum.

 

[Truebeliever]

What statement is that ?

I think you are reading something that I never said.

You implied “ Nazi “

 

[Acer-m14]

Go see the court decisions on the subject. The border patrol are arresting people and they are released into the US by under Biden to return for their court case at a later date, claiming asylum.

you claim Asylum in the country you live it at the US Embassy .. not run over the border into the US to claim it ..

FJB Should have struck down 8 USC 12 then

 

[Acer-m14]

If i wanted to claim asylum from the USA to Australia ..

i would have to go here .

The Embassy of Australia in Washington, D.C. is the diplomatic mission of the Commonwealth of Australia to the United States. The chancery is temporarily located in the National Geographic Building at 1145 17th Street NW.