A look at the 590M (magazine fed)
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
Innovating? Not even slightly. Black aces tactical has been doing this for years. And they take modified saiga mags at like $13 each not $100
Custom gun shop (which uses mossberg 500's) vs. a major firearm manufacturer.
Pricing for the actual shotguns isn't even in the same ballpark.
The 590M is an OEM produced and warrantied magazine-fed pump-action. I don't know if its a first among the major OEM's, but it certainly is the first one that has met with market success and decent reviews. So in that regard, Mossberg is innovating the pump-action market.
Seeing what a custom shop is doing and then a few years later decide to do the same thing is not innovation
Lol, have you even physically compared the two, or are you just going off what you read on the internet?
Mag fed 590. What's there to compare one uses an expensive magazine, the other uses a modified saiga magazine at 1/10th the cost and had a proprietary pump assistance (here is a hint that last part isnt mossberg)
What's there to compare and why would that matter. A custom shop (who oh also sells their mag fed as a kit) vs mossberg with mediocre CQ
What's there to compare?
How about: Reliability and track record (which one will work over the long term); the design of the actual magazines and feeding systems (you even seem to acknowledge that they are not exactly the same); cost (buying a 590M is a lot less expensive vs buying a 500/590 and having it customized at this shop).
FYI, the Saiga magazines have been known for having feeding issues in years past, which is largely the reason they have been slow to catch on in the pump-action market.
I think Mossberg is innovating the OEM pump-action market. Custom gun shops come and go. When a major manufacturer introduces a new setup or design, it's a lot more likely to stay in production for the longterm, even permanently.
Shoots100
.357 mag
Black Aces has a lifetime warranty(Not a Guarantee, as I posted earlier).
You pay for the work to make it that way.
Mossberg just jumped on the bandwagon a bit late I think, but better late than never.
I personally wouldn't waste my time with a slow ass pump gun, especially when their Non NFA semi auto is available.
$449 Shockwave Semi, light load
Now that's some reasonably priced woop ass.
SJC
You pay for the work to make it that way.
Mossberg just jumped on the bandwagon a bit late I think, but better late than never.
I personally wouldn't waste my time with a slow ass pump gun, especially when their Non NFA semi auto is available.
$449 Shockwave Semi, light load
Now that's some reasonably priced woop ass.
SJC
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You're looking at spending $700-$800 (at a minimum) just to have Black Aces modify a $400-$500 Mossberg 500/590.
Or you can buy a factory-warrantied, magazine-fed Mossberg 590M for ~$500.
Perhaps Black Aces does good work, and their finished product is "better" than what Mossberg is offering. Is that Black Aces product $700-$800 "better?"
Has anyone actually done a side-by-side comparison review of the two, or are people here just going off online gossip and stat sheets?
Unless there is some glaring deficiency with Mossberg's design, the 590m seems like a better deal for the value and the peace-of-mind that comes with buying a factory firearm.
Pump-actions still have their place, and I still consider them a better bang for the buck. Semi-auto's have come a long way in terms or reliability, and there are some good ones out there, but you will generally pay more $ for them.
Is that $450 for the modification package only or is Black Aces selling a completed firearm? Because if its $450 + the cost of the OEM shotgun, there are better semi-auto options out there at that price point. Also, while the shockwave looks cool and minimizes the shotgun's footprint, its not ideal for anything other than low-recoil buckshot or birdshot.
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How can anyone do a side by side... mossberg just started making these things vs the years black aces has been
Oh boy so innovative, and yet these have also been on the market for years.
https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-p...g-500-magazine-conversion-kits-prod57376.aspx
https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-p...g-500-magazine-conversion-kits-prod57376.aspx
According to the website, that kit has been discontinued. If it was a good, reliable kit, you'd think Brownell's would still be selling it.
There are others out there that was just an example.
You are acting like we all said this mossberg was complete shit and worthless, after you made some crazy claim that this was "revolutionary:
But in reality all we are saying is mossberg just saw what custom gun shops were doing or offering on the market and decided that hmm we already have all these parts lets see if we arent TO LATE to the game and get in on this
I said the magazine system was "innovative" for the OEM firearms market.
I understand that certain aftermarket companies had developed magazine systems prior to the 590m's arrival. I guess I just don't place the same credibility and faith in an aftermarket design as I do with an OEM design. OEM's, generally-speaking, build and design their products to a higher standard because they are often catering to LE and military, not just the average Joe who likes to do some target shooting. The same can't always be said for aftermarket products.
And the fact that one of your two aftermarket examples has already been discontinued (likely due to lack of consumer demand) is perhaps indicative of that trend. A lot of the pump-action magazine systems leading up to this point have had reliability issues, hence why they've been slow to catch on in the LE or civilian markets. Just because an aftermarket company came up with a magazine design before Mossberg did doesn't mean said design is better than Mossberg's or even reliable.
Well if Mossberg is producing an "innovative" design, then by extension the company itself is "innovating" the market.
Black Aces came up with a similar concept earlier (and I'm sure plenty of other companies experimented with that design prior to Black Aces doing so). Compare price, reliability/durability, fundamental design; if Mossberg's product is offering an improvement in some or all of those areas (we already know the 590m costs less), then Mossberg is simply innovating someone else's concept (which is fairly common in the firearms industry).
You keep talking about price and mossberg being cheaper
Let's look at this. Mossberg 590M with 10 round magazine. $509ish Mossberg 590M 12 Gauge Mag-Fed Pump-Action Shotgun with 10 Round Magazine
Or black aces
Pro Series 5 Standard Pro with 10 round magazine $499
http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/pro-series-5-standard-pro
Or a Pro Series 5 Special Purpose w/ 10 round magazine $599
http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/pro-series-5-special-purpose
Or Magpul Special w/ 10 round magazine $699
http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/magpul-special
But let's now look at if you want more magazines
5 round black ace mags - $37.00 or 10 round for $49
Or let's look at mossberg 5 round for $69 up to 20 round mags for $125.
Let's look at this. Mossberg 590M with 10 round magazine. $509ish Mossberg 590M 12 Gauge Mag-Fed Pump-Action Shotgun with 10 Round Magazine
Or black aces
Pro Series 5 Standard Pro with 10 round magazine $499
http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/pro-series-5-standard-pro
Or a Pro Series 5 Special Purpose w/ 10 round magazine $599
http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/pro-series-5-special-purpose
Or Magpul Special w/ 10 round magazine $699
http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/magpul-special
But let's now look at if you want more magazines
5 round black ace mags - $37.00 or 10 round for $49
Or let's look at mossberg 5 round for $69 up to 20 round mags for $125.
Ah yo @Upstate43 where did you go? I need to hear more about how innovative mossberg is and how its less expensive
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
MikeyCNY
6.5 Creedmoor
Jeez guys, we have enough problems with Libtards, we don't need to keep eating our own. So "innovative" wasn't the right word.. yet you fawn all over Glock when got rid of their stupid finger grooves, or when Ruger came out with a PCC that took Glock mags (when KelTec did it years earlier).
Fawned over glock, when? Never. Over the ruger pcc? Again show me?
All you've done so far is talk things that you've read on the internet.
I'm looking forward to your review of the 2 products side by side, so that you can prove to me, and everyone else here, that the 2 are exactly the same in all aspects except cost.
Mossberg magazines might cost more, but here's the thing: magazine design, functionality and reliability is extremely important for any magazine-fed firearm. A slight imperfection or design flaw can easily mess up the weapon's feeding procedure. I've used shotguns with Saiga-type magazines; they weren't nearly as reliable as traditional tube-fed pump-actions.
Will the 590M and Remington's new offerings be any better? So far the reviews have been positive, but time will tell what their longterm reliability is. I highly doubt a major OEM, especially Mossberg (which is known as THE shotgun company) would put out a crappy, unreliable design. And I'm eager to get some trigger time to see for myself how it handles. If Mossberg built upon and improved a design concept that had already been in existence, that qualifies as "innovation" in my book.
If you want to save some $ by going with an aftermarket company that offers cheaper magazines, go for it. Just remember: you get what you pay for.
Lol, I don't have the patience to continually sit at my computer and monitor this forum for every wisecrack that is made.
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Hahahha why would I buy both, I'd buy an black aces any day.
YOU are the one claiming mossberg is innovative. But wait wouldn't Remington be innovative because they also released the 870DM at the same time (actual I think prior to mossberg)
Hey did you also see that mossberg is making a concealed carry subcompact 9mm, god when will their innovation end
Good. Put your money where mouth is and go buy one. Please let us know how it works.
I already know enough about the reliability record of the Saiga magazines, to includes Black Aces' products; there are better and more reliable shoguns at that price point.
I honestly have no need for something antiquated like a shotgun.
Hmm found them for less.
Wait so you have already owned a Black aces shotgun with their mags?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Looks like someone was called out on a comment made that was proven not to be true and instead of just saying, "You are correct.", He'll fight it to the end and say that he doesn't have time to monitor the forums and make ridiculous comments about putting money where mouths are. I don't get it. Just be a man and admit you were wrong.
Later he'll question your military service like he did in another thread.
Later he'll question your military service like he did in another thread.
The funny part is no one ever said the mossberg version (or honestly iirc the earlier Remington model) was bad or not worth buying for what it was. Just said wasnt innovative, but no someone was so invested in their butthurt they took it personally and decided that a clone of another product is still innovative