A word about the NYHA (NY Healthcare Act)

[GOPerfect]

Our Health care is completely fucked here in the US.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

Over paid medical staff.

Inflated costs from hospitals. Poor billing cycles.

Too much "free" stuff for the poor and non-contributing.

Inflated profits by insurance companies.

Too many Americans using services that are not needed.

Government making too many decisions in regards to health options.

Big Pharma.

Lack of serious tort reform.

Lawsuits out the arse.

The list can continue.

I have news for all.....

There is NO fixing our system. It will remain broken either forever or till the time when the US does a complete reset.

 

[Mosinitis]

So, it's private health insurance then ?

Either it's taxpayer funded, or it's payed for by the participants directly.

You'll get no argument that our system is broken, just that getting more government involved will make it worse.

The reason our system is broken is due to regulatory capture.

The insurance companies have gotten government to regulate them into little private government enforced monopolies. A "government takeover" of them would just complete that process. You would have the same people making the same decisions, just with a government paycheck and even less accountability.

What we need are all the rules that create these little fiefdoms to go away. We need competition in the market.

The key word was nonprofit.

 

[spat]

The key word was nonprofit.

Irrelevant.

You could make the insurance companies here non profit and it wouldn't change a thing.

They would just take whatever profit they had at the end of the year, give it out to the executives as a bonus, and bam, instant non profit.

Honestly things would probably get worse.

 

[Saltwater60]

Our Health care is completely fucked here in the US.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

Over paid medical staff.

Inflated costs from hospitals. Poor billing cycles.

Too much "free" stuff for the poor and non-contributing.

Inflated profits by insurance companies.

Too many Americans using services that are not needed.

Government making too many decisions in regards to health options.

Big Pharma.

Lack of serious tort reform.

Lawsuits out the arse.

The list can continue.

I have news for all.....

There is NO fixing our system. It will remain broken either forever or till the time when the US does a complete reset.

this 1000%.
Too many Americans using services that are not needed.
I see it all the time with my sister and her 4 kids. She takes them to the doctors for made up shit to get attention. Same for herself. She literally said she had cervical cancer and she needed a historectamy yet she still has her uterus a year later. She had a lump on her breast that was deemed a cyst and no problem. She kept pushing saying it was cancer to get an MRI, ultrasound, Biopsy, and then surgically removed. The ultrasound was needed and that was all.
My grandfather was 84 and dying from congestive heart failure my mother and grandmother couldn’t accept this so they had multiple $100,000’s of dollars of test ran. They even wanted kidney dialysis. Something like 40% of healthcare expenses are spent in the last few months of someone’s life. We in the USA have an issue with letting people die peacefully.
Of course your other claims hold water.

 

[Saltwater60]

Irrelevant.

You could make the insurance companies here non profit and it wouldn't change a thing.

They would just take whatever profit they had at the end of the year, give it out to the executives as a bonus, and bam, instant non profit.

Honestly things would probably get worse.

Many in the USA are not for profit. Blue Cross is one of them. They built a covered parking garage with a covered bridge and a beautiful patio with umbrellas and heater outside for their workers. You just have to spend all your profits to be not for profit so you’re correct.
What Are Non Profit Health Insurance Companies?

 

[Mosinitis]

One non profit system provides universal healthcare. It can be audited by the government. Nothing like this exist in the U.S.

 

[spat]

One non profit system provides universal healthcare. It can be audited by the government. Nothing like this exist in the U.S.

So what is the revenue stream for this company ?

Do people have the option not to purchase their product ?

What sort of audit do you think our government would do ?

Can you see FUAC auditing blue cross ? No matter how good or bad they were passing the audit would just be a matter of how much they contributed to his reelection campaign.

How would that help consumers ?

 

[Mosinitis]

Universal Healthcare without billions diverted to middlemen profiteering.

 

[spat]

Universal Healthcare without billions diverted to middlemen profiteering.

So why doesn't everyone just choose a non profit insurance company if that's the problem ?

 

[Steal2B]

So why doesn't everyone just choose a non profit insurance company if that's the problem ?

The Afordable Care Act screwed those policies up big time.

 

[Mosinitis]

So why doesn't everyone just choose a non profit insurance company if that's the problem ?

They have to compete with all others. Spend on adds, recruiters and give fake coverage as the rest.

 

[Criticalt]

I dont think we could trust the insurance companies to do the right thing, but, they COULD lower costs by 70% if the pharmaceutical companies were put under control.
Heres an anecdotal story but there are millions just like it.

Someone I know uses the drug Entyvio for a medical issue.
Sometime last year while changing insurance providers, their insurance lapsed for a month.
They had their Entyvio infusion given and got billed.......$22,000.
Entyvio is a drug given by infusion over 30 minutes. Its 300mg of medicine which costs the pharmaceutical company about $10.
$18,000 of the $22,000 was for the drug, the rest was for the outpatient hospital visit and blood work.
In other countries like England, Canada, Germany.......the exact same treatment is as low as $1,800.
Entyvio isnt even that expensive compared to other biologics. 100mg of Remicade is $50,000 per dose.......under $2,000 elsewhere.
I dont know how to fix this issue but the pharmaceutical companies is a good start.

 

[Mosinitis]

I dont think we could trust the insurance companies to do the right thing, but, they COULD lower costs by 70% if the pharmaceutical companies were put under control.
Heres an anecdotal story but there are millions just like it.

Someone I know uses the drug Entyvio for a medical issue.
Sometime last year while changing insurance providers, their insurance lapsed for a month.
They had their Entyvio infusion given and got billed.......$22,000.
Entyvio is a drug given by infusion over 30 minutes. Its 300mg of medicine which costs the pharmaceutical company about $10.
$18,000 of the $22,000 was for the drug, the rest was for the outpatient hospital visit and blood work.
In other countries like England, Canada, Germany.......the exact same treatment is as low as $1,800.
Entyvio isnt even that expensive compared to other biologics. 100mg of Remicade is $50,000 per dose.......under $2,000 elsewhere.
I dont know how to fix this issue but the pharmaceutical companies is a good start.

It gets even more outrages with chemotherapy treatments. People don't get to see the actual bills, because most are covered for catastrophic illness or they simply go on on medicaid. I looked at my fathers chemo bill once, it was over $40,000. He had these treatments every two weeks for about 4 years. That's over 4 million dollars. This is crazy. There is no reason it should cost that much.

 

[spat]

They have to compete with all others. Spend on adds, recruiters and give fake coverage as the rest.

If the problem is for profit companies taking profits, then the non profits should be able to out compete them easily.

We have several major problems with our system, but profit is not one of them. Lack of competition caused by government regulation is the major one.

 

[spat]

It gets even more outrages with chemotherapy treatments. People don't get to see the actual bills, because most are covered for catastrophic illness or they simply go on on medicaid. I looked at my fathers chemo bill once, it was over $40,000. He had these treatments every two weeks for about 4 years. That's over 4 million dollars. This is crazy. There is no reason it should cost that much.

It costs that much because we subsidize the R&D for the entire planet. In all the countries where those drugs sell cheaply their price is based on the marginal cost of the drug and doesn't include the R&D cost.

It doesn't help that excessive regulation makes bringing those drugs to market so expensive.

Sure, they could sell *those* drugs here for the reduced prices *now*, but if you'd like to see new drugs in the future, someone needs to pony up for the massive R&D cost.

 

[Mosinitis]

It costs that much because we subsidize the R&D for the entire planet. In all the countries where those drugs sell cheaply their price is based on the marginal cost of the drug and doesn't include the R&D cost.

It doesn't help that excessive regulation makes bringing those drugs to market so expensive.

Sure, they could sell *those* drugs here for the reduced prices *now*, but if you'd like to see new drugs in the future, someone needs to pony up for the massive R&D cost.

This is simply not true. There is medical research in Europe and Israel. There are better drugs there which are not available in the U.S. because our system protects profits of our big pharma companies.

 

[spat]

This is simply not true. There is medical research in Europe and Israel. There are better drugs there which are not available in the U.S. because out system protects profits of our big pharma companies.

There is research there, sure, but where does the money come from ?

When GlaxoSmithKline operates a lab in the UK you don't think the money their subsidiary Pfizer makes in the US is funding it ?

These are giant multinational corporations. How does not selling those drugs here contribute to the profits of those companies ?

 

[Mosinitis]

Profits are not a problem in our healthcare system?
Good luck with that argument.

 

[spat]

Profits are not a problem in our healthcare system?
Good luck with that argument.

Profits are never a problem.

Profits are what you get when you take something with little value and turn it into something with more value. That is intrinsically a good thing.

If you see a company making "too much profit" that means there is an opportunity for you to get rich doing what they do for a slightly lower margin.

If you don't have the ability, skill, or resources to do that, then STFU. They deserve all the profit they can get for having those things when nobody else does.

 

[Mosinitis]

 

[BDinPutnam]

@spat I like to refer to it as "R&D&R" (Research and Development and Regulatory). Theres also a huge expense in dealing with FDA.

 

[FirstRifle]

I'm wondering... Why don't the drug companies spread the cost of R&D of drugs across all of the patients on the entire planet?

For example, do regulations in other countries prohibit including any costs above and beyond the cost of producing the drug, such as R&D, G&A, etc. and/or profit, in the pricing of medications? Are there tax advantages for the drug companies to lump together and take the cost of R&D as an expense in the USA vs spreading the R&D costs to that company's manufacturing plants in countries other than the USA?

It costs that much because we subsidize the R&D for the entire planet. In all the countries where those drugs sell cheaply their price is based on the marginal cost of the drug and doesn't include the R&D cost.

 

[spat]

I'm wondering... Why don't the drug companies spread the cost of R&D of drugs across all of the patients on the entire planet?

For example, do regulations in other countries prohibit including any costs above and beyond the cost of producing the drug, such as R&D, G&A, etc. and/or profit, in the pricing of medications? Are there tax advantages for the drug companies to lump together and take the cost of R&D as an expense in the USA vs spreading the R&D costs to that company's manufacturing plants in countries other than the USA?

It's not even just other countries. It's also here. Some drugs have lower negotiated prices with some providers than others.

Those of us paying full price are subsidizing not only all the R&D for the "universal healthcare" countries whose governments can demand lower prices but even our own with things like Medicare.

People will look at the lower prices that Medicare pays for things vs private insurance and call that a victory that proves the "single payer model" is best, but they just don't get it that the money has to come from somewhere.