AA aircrew found with 30 bullets in carry on..

[4excal]

the ole do as I say not as i do theory..
I'm flying jetblue with my firearm next month..can't wait to be harassed lol
American Airlines crew member found with 30 bullets in carry-on bag

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Oooops

 

[Jezman]

Is that illegal?

 

[4excal]

Is that illegal?

Yes.
Can't be loose. Need to be original manufacturing box.Have to be in checked bag also. 2 laws broken(maybe even 3 )

 

[Glenn B]

Need to be original manufacturing box.

That particular point is incorrect. You can carry ammunition in many types of closed containers specifically made for containing ammo, the original manufacturer's box is only one such container. You can also carry ammunition in loaded magazines so long as the magazines are within a hard sided case or boxed; I have done so numerous times while checking my baggage containing ammo.

(8) Small arms ammunition for personal use carried by a crewmember or passenger in checked baggage only, if securely packed in boxes or other packagings specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ammunition clips and magazines must also be securely boxed. This paragraph does not apply to persons traveling under the provisions of 49 CFR 1544.219.

Source: eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

Ammunition

• Ammunition is prohibited in carry-on baggage, but may be transported in checked baggage.
• Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm. Read the requirements governing the transport of ammunition in checked baggage as defined by 49 CFR 175.10 (a)(8).
• Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm.

• Source:Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

Every time I plan to fly, with guns and ammo in my luggage, I check the TSA website to see if anything has changed or not. I then print up the pages with the above info and their web addresses to carry with me. I also check the airline regulations relative to whichever airline with which I plan to travel as there are varying airline rules about how much ammo you can transport and how the airline allows you to carry it.

I have been told both by airline check-in reps and by Port Authority Police officers that I cannot travel with loaded magazines. Each time, I pulled out the TSA rules. In the case of the airline reps who told me no loaded magazines, I also asked to have the GSC (Ground Security Coordinator) come by to resolve the issue. Each time, it was resolved in my favor. Additionally, when the police officer told me that I asked him to check with TSA. While he swore they would not allow it, allow it is exactly what they did and my magazines remained loaded and placed within an Uncle Mikes double mag pouch that completely enclosed the mags so no rounds were exposed and other remained in the locked pistol case. I also virtually always open the action open and secure it with a lock when transporting firearms in my luggage on an aircraft.

 

[Bob]

And then there's that whole think about the crewmember being in a different country.

 

[Bob]

Incorrect.

The law doesn't require it, but some airlines do.

 

[Glenn B]

The law doesn't require it, but some airlines do.

I do not doubt it but I have never encountered it. Then again, as I edited my post above to show (probably while you were replying), I have encountered a few airline personnel who tell me what they think are the rules but get them wrong. In those cases I have always asked to speak with the GSC and I have the airline rules and TSA rules at the ready.

 

[Bob]

I do not doubt it but I have never encountered it. Then again, as I edited my post above to show (probably while you were replying), I have encountered a few airline personnel who tell me what they think are the rules but get them wrong. In those cases I have always asked to speak with the GSC and I have the airline rules and TSA rules at the ready.

I'm with you. But there are just some battles that aren't worth the fight.
When flying out of KBUF one day, the counter agent didn't want to inspect my firearms to ensure they were unloaded, and instead called over a Transit Authority police officer. He not only insisted on inspecting my firearms to ensure that they were unloaded, but also to ensure that I had a NYS pistol permit and that they were listed on the permit. I handed him a copy of THIS letter and asked him to read it. He then let me continue without further issue.

The last couple of times I've flown, the desk agent has insisted upon placing the firearms declaration tag on the outside of my luggage. I've balked, as this is a direct violation of 27 CFR 478.31. Even after escalating, they insisted on doing it. I eventually relented, because ultimately, they have the ability to decide whether or not you (and/or your luggage) can get on the plane. So the first thing I do at my destination is grab the bag off the belt, take the tag off, and check to make sure the firearms are intact.

 

[4excal]

That particular point is incorrect. You can carry ammunition in many types of closed containers specifically made for containing ammo, the original manufacturer's box is only one such container. You can also carry ammunition in loaded magazines so long as the magazines are within a hard sided case or boxed; I have done so numerous times while checking my baggage containing ammo.

Source: eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

• Source:Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

Every time I plan to fly, with guns and ammo in my luggage, I check the TSA website to see if anything has changed or not. I then print up the pages with the above info and their web addresses to carry with me. I also check the airline regulations relative to whichever airline with which I plan to travel as there are varying airline rules about how much ammo you can transport and how the airline allows you to carry it.

I have been told both by airline check-in reps and by Port Authority Police officers that I cannot travel with loaded magazines. Each time, I pulled out the TSA rules. In the case of the airline reps who told me no loaded magazines, I also asked to have the GSC (Ground Security Coordinator) come by to resolve the issue. Each time, it was resolved in my favor. Additionally, when the police officer told me that I asked him to check with TSA. While he swore they would not allow it, allow it is exactly what they did and my magazines remained loaded and placed within an Uncle Mikes double mag pouch that completely enclosed the mags so no rounds were exposed and other remained in the locked pistol case. I also virtually always open the action open and secure it with a lock when transporting firearms in my luggage on an aircraft.

That's just my researching the 3 airlines for my upcoming vacation. From what I've been reading they say the box but they also go against TSA RULES, when they desire and make their own up like Delta with labeling your bag with a big warning that's supposed to be illegal too.

 

[4excal]

I'm with you. But there are just some battles that aren't worth the fight.
When flying out of KBUF one day, the counter agent didn't want to inspect my firearms to ensure they were unloaded, and instead called over a Transit Authority police officer. He not only insisted on inspecting my firearms to ensure that they were unloaded, but also to ensure that I had a NYS pistol permit and that they were listed on the permit. I handed him a copy of THIS letter and asked him to read it. He then let me continue without further issue.

The last couple of times I've flown, the desk agent has insisted upon placing the firearms declaration tag on the outside of my luggage. I've balked, as this is a direct violation of 27 CFR 478.31. Even after escalating, they insisted on doing it. I eventually relented, because ultimately, they have the ability to decide whether or not you (and/or your luggage) can get on the plane. So the first thing I do at my destination is grab the bag off the belt, take the tag off, and check to make sure the firearms are intact.

I just printed that incase, thank you

 

[4excal]

I'm with you. But there are just some battles that aren't worth the fight.
When flying out of KBUF one day, the counter agent didn't want to inspect my firearms to ensure they were unloaded, and instead called over a Transit Authority police officer. He not only insisted on inspecting my firearms to ensure that they were unloaded, but also to ensure that I had a NYS pistol permit and that they were listed on the permit. I handed him a copy of THIS letter and asked him to read it. He then let me continue without further issue.

The last couple of times I've flown, the desk agent has insisted upon placing the firearms declaration tag on the outside of my luggage. I've balked, as this is a direct violation of 27 CFR 478.31. Even after escalating, they insisted on doing it. I eventually relented, because ultimately, they have the ability to decide whether or not you (and/or your luggage) can get on the plane. So the first thing I do at my destination is grab the bag off the belt, take the tag off, and check to make sure the firearms are intact.

I've been reading that Delta is/was ziptying your bag so much you can't get it open (unless you pack toenail clippers in pocket of it, which your allowed) then cut em.

 

[Glenn B]

I try to avoid flying Delta, they suck. My airline of choice, whenever possible, is South West.

If I had to fly with Delta and they wanted to place the firearms tag on the outside of my luggage, I would ask for the GSC. If the GSC insisted on such, I would likely call the TSA to inform that the airline was violating federal law or regulation. I would record everything on video. When and if my gun was stolen during transportation in my luggage via Delta, and such a sticker had been attached, I would seek to have the check-in representative prosecuted if possible and would sue the airline for the loss and for the mental anguish that I surely would suffer knowing my gun was now in the hands of a criminal who might do harm with it all because of their check-in clerk having committed a crime (or at least a regulations violation). I would bet: 1) I would win a decent settlement 2) that the airline change their policy to comply with the law and or regulation. Sometimes it is worth the fight so the dickheads wakeup and start doing things right.

 

[Glenn B]

I am beginning to think that the red firearms tag Delta must place inside the luggage is not the same as the one they are currently placing on the outside of the baggage containing a firearm. I say that because I just read the article at this link: Delta Airlines Adopts New Requirements For Carrying Firearms in Checked Luggage | OutdoorHub

That makes it seem like it is another tag all together, one that clues in baggage handlers not to place your luggage on the carousel. In essence though, it would be the same as putting the government required tag on the outside, it is an advertisement for the bag to be stolen. I had this happen when my son and I flew to Alaska, no not it being stolen but it being tagged but not to my knowledge until after the fact. Someone met us at the carousel in AK and assured we got it. Essentially the same thing happened when we returned to NY but I think then we had to go to an office to pick it up. I guess it is a sort of a way around the federal regulation to put the red tag inside the baggage; yes the red tag still goes inside but this new airline tag goes on the outside.

 

[4excal]

I am beginning to think that the red firearms tag Delta must place inside the luggage is not the same as the one they are currently placing on the outside of the baggage containing a firearm. I say that because I just read the article at this link: Delta Airlines Adopts New Requirements For Carrying Firearms in Checked Luggage | OutdoorHub

That makes it seem like it is another tag all together, one that clues in baggage handlers not to place your luggage on the carousel. In essence though, it would be the same as putting the government required tag on the outside, it is an advertisement for the bag to be stolen. I had this happen when my son and I flew to Alaska, no not it being stolen but it being tagged but not to my knowledge until after the fact. Someone met us at the carousel in AK and assured we got it. Essentially the same thing happened when we returned to NY but I think then we had to go to an office to pick it up. I guess it is a sort of a way around the federal regulation to put the red tag inside the baggage; yes the red tag still goes inside but this new airline tag goes on the outside.

Yeah not the same tag for sure. Most airlines do the tag INSIDE the gun box or on it,Delta and other law breakers put the CAT tag on outside and delta has been ziptying (or they have in past recent years)(against law)to announce to the thieves working in baggage and others waiting at carousel, and it still comes down the carousel like normal. At least those are from the forums that I've been reading about flying Delta or Jetblue with firearms. Eitherway I'm using jetblue, I always do but 1st gun flight with them.

 

[NY Leatherneck]

Idk,..dont think I can throw it at 900 fps.

 

[Bob]

Yeah not the same tag for sure. Most airlines do the tag INSIDE the gun box or on it,Delta and other law breakers put the CAT tag on outside and delta has been ziptying (or they have in past recent years)(against law)to announce to the thieves working in baggage and others waiting at carousel, and it still comes down the carousel like normal. At least those are from the forums that I've been reading about flying Delta or Jetblue with firearms. Eitherway I'm using jetblue, I always do but 1st gun flight with them.

I fly JetBlue exclusively, and almost always with firearms. They are USUALLY pretty decent to work with.
Recently, I have had mixed experiences with inspection of the firearms. Most of the time, I've had "Please show me that it's unloaded." A couple of times, I've had "If it's loaded, you'll be the one to get in trouble."
Most of the time, they'll allow you place the (boxed) ammo in the same locked container as the firearm. Only twice have I ever had them ask me to pack it separately - once at KBOS and once at KATL.

They do NOT use the bright orange xray-opaque declaration tag that most of the other airlines use. It's a small white tag with "Firearm declaration" printed on the back. They'll have you read and sign. Then they'll take a duplicate of the bar code sticker that goes on your boarding pass and your luggage tag and place it on the firearms declaration tag. They're USUALLY pretty good about placing it directly on the hardsided case containing the firearm. Once in awhile, they'll want to place it on the outside of the luggage. I've found that it's more habitual than anything else - If you explain to them that you're concerned about identifying your bag as containing a firearm and possible theft, there's usually a "DUH" moment and they'll put it on the case. Only once or twice have I ever had someone insist upon placing it on the outside. I tried reasoning, then escalated to a supervisor to no avail. Showing them a copy of 27 CFR 478.31 didn't do anything either. At that point, I decided that it just wasn't worth the battle and made sure to inspect my bag THOROUGHLY as soon as I picked it up at my destination.

They've gotten pretty good about handing you off to TSA for hand-screening of the bag before sending you to your gate. However, if they don't, or if for some other reason, TSA needs to access the container, they can and will cut the locks. (Remember, no TSA locks on the hardsided case containing the firearm) If the case can't be resecured, the bag will not be allowed on the flight. For that reason, I put my name and cell phone number on the outside of the hardsided case, and I keep an extra padlock inside the case. I've never had to use it, but it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

All told, the number of "good" experiences when flying with checked firearms far exceeds the "not so good" experiences. ALWAYS be aware that they might throw you a curveball. (i.e ask you to move your ammo). I usually keep a couple of copies of that DOJ letter and 27 CFR 478.31 in my bag to show people if challenged. Not a bad idea to keep a copy of the carrier's policies in your bag as well.

IF in the unlikely event that your firearm or bag gets lost or stolen, contact the carrier IMMEDIATELY. Also contact either airport police or the police department in which the airport is located IMMEDIATELY. You'll probably need a police report in order to have the firearm removed from your permit.

Let me know of you have any questions. Relax and enjoy the flight!

 

[4excal]

I fly JetBlue exclusively, and almost always with firearms. They are USUALLY pretty decent to work with.
Recently, I have had mixed experiences with inspection of the firearms. Most of the time, I've had "Please show me that it's unloaded." A couple of times, I've had "If it's loaded, you'll be the one to get in trouble."
Most of the time, they'll allow you place the (boxed) ammo in the same locked container as the firearm. Only twice have I ever had them ask me to pack it separately - once at KBOS and once at KATL.

They do NOT use the bright orange xray-opaque declaration tag that most of the other airlines use. It's a small white tag with "Firearm declaration" printed on the back. They'll have you read and sign. Then they'll take a duplicate of the bar code sticker that goes on your boarding pass and your luggage tag and place it on the firearms declaration tag. They're USUALLY pretty good about placing it directly on the hardsided case containing the firearm. Once in awhile, they'll want to place it on the outside of the luggage. I've found that it's more habitual than anything else - If you explain to them that you're concerned about identifying your bag as containing a firearm and possible theft, there's usually a "DUH" moment and they'll put it on the case. Only once or twice have I ever had someone insist upon placing it on the outside. I tried reasoning, then escalated to a supervisor to no avail. Showing them a copy of 27 CFR 478.31 didn't do anything either. At that point, I decided that it just wasn't worth the battle and made sure to inspect my bag THOROUGHLY as soon as I picked it up at my destination.

They've gotten pretty good about handing you off to TSA for hand-screening of the bag before sending you to your gate. However, if they don't, or if for some other reason, TSA needs to access the container, they can and will cut the locks. (Remember, no TSA locks on the hardsided case containing the firearm) If the case can't be resecured, the bag will not be allowed on the flight. For that reason, I put my name and cell phone number on the outside of the hardsided case, and I keep an extra padlock inside the case. I've never had to use it, but it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

All told, the number of "good" experiences when flying with checked firearms far exceeds the "not so good" experiences. ALWAYS be aware that they might throw you a curveball. (i.e ask you to move your ammo). I usually keep a couple of copies of that DOJ letter and 27 CFR 478.31 in my bag to show people if challenged. Not a bad idea to keep a copy of the carrier's policies in your bag as well.

IF in the unlikely event that your firearm or bag gets lost or stolen, contact the carrier IMMEDIATELY. Also contact either airport police or the police department in which the airport is located IMMEDIATELY. You'll probably need a police report in order to have the firearm removed from your permit.

Let me know of you have any questions. Relax and enjoy the flight!

Excellent range report Bob thank you but my question now is, you say no TSA locks on the hard case then what do I use to lock it when I thought they require TSA locks? Or do you mean to simply definitely have a spare lock with me? Also, is any padlock/cable that fits through the holes of the hard case good enough? This is what I have for the flight.. will that suffice? Now should I be getting another cable lock incase they have to cut that?? That's alot of question marks in my response... Again, thank you for all this excellent info and real knowledge. I do appreciate this.

 

[Bob]

TSA locks can go on the outside of your luggage. But the hardsided case much be secured such that you are the only one with they key or the combination - and that means no TSA locks.
In a pinch, I have previously used a cable lock wrapped around the handle of the hard case a couple of times. Now, I use a set of keyed-alike padlocks. The test is whether you can open the case enough to get a hand in there or to get anything out. If it opens enough for anything to fall out or if someone can put hands on the firearm, it's no good.

 

[4excal]

TSA locks can go on the outside of your luggage. But the hardsided case much be secured such that you are the only one with they key or the combination - and that means no TSA locks.
In a pinch, I have previously used a cable lock wrapped around the handle of the hard case a couple of times. Now, I use a set of keyed-alike padlocks. The test is whether you can open the case enough to get a hand in there or to get anything out. If it opens enough for anything to fall out or if someone can put hands on the firearm, it's no good.

So my pictures thing on my post is ok, just don't lock it?? Use the cable on the big check bag that it's in?? And have a spare lock too?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

So my pictures thing on my post is ok, just don't lock it?? Use the cable on the big check bag that it's in?? And have a spare lock too?

I would say no. You can easily get into the case pictured. Just use two small pad locks.

 

[Cavalry]

I would say no. You can easily get into the case pictured. Just use two small pad locks.

How so? Latches of that style must be slid open before the clamshell can open, any lock though the hole prevents the sliding/opening. With a case like that is honor system anyway as the latches could be broken off with a screwdriver or in the case of two padlocks the plastic around the latch cut.

 

[4excal]

I would say no. You can easily get into the case pictured. Just use two small pad locks.

Actually you can't. The way the cable is it mashes it so tight and those clasps slide to open, can't even lift it a hal inch. The reviews all said they flew with it and TSA approved all the different people no problem.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Just get another box or 2 locks. The way that looks, that's inviting theft.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

How so? Latches of that style must be slid open before the clamshell can open, any lock though the hole prevents the sliding/opening. With a case like that is honor system anyway as the latches could be broken off with a screwdriver or in the case of two padlocks the plastic around the latch cut.

Yeah!! What he said^^^^^^^