Adding an AR pistol to my permit

Checkers

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Hey guys,

I'm just wondering about how to go about adding an AR pistol to my permit. I understand the laws about what it can and can't have, it can't be a rifle turned into a pistol, etc. but I'm not sure about actually adding it.

Can I use a lower I have floating around? It's never been built into anything, so it's not going from a rifle to a pistol. So can I just submit an amendment for that, and once it comes back, I can start my building? Or do I have to order a lower, leave it with my FFL until I get my amendment back, then I can pick it up (Like a pistol)?

Thanks everyone!
 
Marine Cpl

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I'd imagine it would be a whole lot easier to order a new one to your FFL. If not and you want to use the one you have laying around, there are FFL's here who aren't not to far from you who actually know the laws and will do it for you without fear.

Bullet Guy comes to mind.
 
meketrefe

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Any FFL will do that for you. Once you want to add calibers all you need is a receipt for the upper and/or barrel to amend your license.
No different than lets say adding a 40 cal barrel to shoot from your 357SIG glock. This if you are going to carry that added on caliber. For the range quick swap is not going to matter.
 
meketrefe

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I get it. The local FFL should be able to give him a receipt for any lower at any time to add it to the pistol permit, finished or not.
If you carry that gun make sure the caliber matches the first caliber registered although this might change with different counties.
 
Eddie Gunks

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It is much easier to do with a brand-new lower. Because the FFL has to fill out a form called the P 12 you have to fill out a P 12 every time you receive a pistol and every time you sell a pistol.

Therefore it's easier to say that you receive the pistol from one of your distributors. Still not technically legal as you are manufacturing a firearm from a stripped lower.

If the person already owns the lower the last thing you want to do is fill out a P 12 that you received it from that individual because they will come and arrest him for being in possession of a unregistered pistol. If you fill out a P 12 going out and you do not have one for coming in the state police will eventually catch up with that. It takes him between two and three years to find any errors on the P 12, but they do eventually find them.

The best way in this situation is to buy a pistol length upper receiver complete. Bring The receipt to the pistol department and tell them that you have a receiver and that you're building a pistol. Show them the receipt for the upper receiver that is complete and bring the serial number for your lower. Do not tell them it's an AR 15 or they will not do it in most cases.
 
meketrefe

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BG. Thanks for the info. That makes sense. Better avoid potential problems in the future from the in/out FFL transactions.
Ordering a brand new lower also gives an opportunity to get one of those dedicated for specific magazine system if needed (if glock)
 
speedkills27

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so wait a minute i thought the SAFE Act had a weight provision pertaining to unloaded weight of pistols (50 oz. ?)
im not trying to derail the thread just interested on how its going to be legal
 
Marine Cpl

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speedkills27 said:
so wait a minute i thought the SAFE Act had a weight provision pertaining to unloaded weight of pistols (50 oz. ?)
im not trying to derail the thread just interested on how its going to be legal
Click to expand...
Not with a fixed magazine. It cannot be a so-called assault weapon with a fixed magazine.
 
Marine Cpl

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So what I'm gathering from the responses here is using an existing lower you already have can open up a can of worms where they can say you illegally possessed an unregistered pistol prior to going through the process of registering it.

It's easier to just have a pistol lower shipped to your FFL and get the receipt from him, get the ticket from your county clerk and pistol permit amended after giving them the receipt, and finally go back to you FFL and pick it up after a NICS just like any pistol you've bought before.
 
meketrefe

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The law doesn't say anything about a fixed magazine whatever that means.

The law says ... " the capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip".

So a pistol that has a magazine outside the pistol grip but doesn't have that capacity to readily accept an ammunition magazine should be fine.
 
Eddie Gunks

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Willjr75 said:
So what I'm gathering from the responses here is using an existing lower you already have can open up a can of worms where they can say you illegally possessed an unregistered pistol prior to going through the process of registering it.

It's easier to just have a pistol lower shipped to your FFL and get the receipt from him, get the ticket from your county clerk and pistol permit amended after giving them the receipt, and finally go back to you FFL and pick it up after a NICS just like any pistol you've bought before.
Click to expand...


There is no such thing as a pistol lower. Any lower Will do. The key is the FFL can say that he received the pistol from his supplier or manufacture. If you're not a manufacture a firearms that could get them in trouble but it seems to happen all the time. That does not make it legal but it is pretty common place.

It is 100% legal to do it yourself. If you already own a lower you can buy a pistol upper. Take the receipt for the pistol upper to the sheriff and tell them you would like to add it to the receiver. It is not against the law because it's only a receiver.

The problem comes in, if you try to give that lower that you own to an FF L and have the FF L fill out the P 12. Because he has to say where he got that pistol from
 
Checkers

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BG,

So not only do I have a spare lower, my FFL also has a lower I haven't picked up yet, and friday I will be ordering a few more for planned builds. Even with all these options available, would taking posession, buying an upper, and doing it that way be the best? Or should I just wait until another one arrives, and have him do the P12? He's a very nice guy and has done AR lowers before, I don't think he'll have any issue

The County Clerk isn't easy for me to visit because of the distance and my work hours, can I just send an amendment for along with the receipt for the upper if I do go that route? Last time I went down there I had to take half a vacation day, and I'd prefer not to do that if I don't have to.

And thanks everyone for all the replies, this place is 100x more helpful than NYF
 
Eddie Gunks

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Checkers

I am not sure how your sheriff is. If they are easy going then either route. The sheriff is the unknown.

I would say if your ffl will give you a "regular" receipt for a pistol on a lower that is the easiest route to take.

The whole p12 thing is just the backside of what happens. I was just giving info so people understood the potential pitfalls
 
Checkers

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BG,
I'm a little confused, I'm sorry. Where does the Sheriff come in? I've always gone through the County Clerk, and even with my permit and first amendment, never had to go through the Sheriff.

But I will ask my FFL for a receipt (Like I got for my other pistols) for the AR lower, and simply send it as if I were doing any other pistol. Thanks so much for all the help by the way!
 
Cooolone

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Wait... Federal law allows for an individual to manufacture a firearm for personal use, correct? With no intent to sell, doesn't even require a serial #, but does for registration purposes. So why can't the FFL list the manufacturer as the person? I'm interested in this...

Or is it just different because it's a pistol?

And seeing as you register the lower as it has the serial, are you required to declare its purpose (rifle/pistol) when registering? If ever registered as a rifle it cannot become a pistol. Correct? So confusing, lol
 
Eddie Gunks

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Checkers said:
BG,
I'm a little confused, I'm sorry. Where does the Sheriff come in? I've always gone through the County Clerk, and even with my permit and first amendment, never had to go through the Sheriff.

But I will ask my FFL for a receipt (Like I got for my other pistols) for the AR lower, and simply send it as if I were doing any other pistol. Thanks so much for all the help by the way!
Click to expand...

In my county we go to the sheriff for pistol related stuff
 
Eddie Gunks

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Cooolone said:
1..Wait... Federal law allows for an individual to manufacture a firearm for personal use, correct? With no intent to sell, doesn't even require a serial #, but does for registration purposes.

2. So why can't the FFL list the manufacturer as the person? I'm interested in this...

3. Or is it just different because it's a pistol?

4. And seeing as you register the lower as it has the serial, are you required to declare its purpose (rifle/pistol) when registering? If ever registered as a rifle it cannot become a pistol. Correct? So confusing, lol
Click to expand...

1. Yes. You can.

2. It is sticky, cause basically that says the individual is in possession of a pistol without registering it. If the ffl says an individual manufactured a pistol. that is basically admitting guilt in writing.

3. Yup in ny cause it is a pistol.

4. You only need to register a pistol in ny.
4a. Once a rifle....always a rifle. Can never be a pistol.
 
Marine Cpl

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Pistols can be labeled assault weapons of they are over 50 oz or is they have other evil features in the entire state.
 
Snappo

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Willjr75 said:
Pistols can be labeled assault weapons of they are over 50 oz or is they have other evil features in the entire state.
Click to expand...

Is a Mac11 or Uzi micro over 3 lbs? I would guess they were close but under. I wonder if the next Republican Governor of NY can unscrew the SAFE act.
 
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