an interesting explaination of the RED FLAG law

[Jmac00]

I stole this from a FB page I follow. This gentlemen makes a very good arguement as to the issues with the Red Flag laws

My state of Virginia tried to pass this and it was quickly defeated.

So many things wrong with it that many don't understand. Its not just guns, its giving the police the ability to circumvent your rights to enter your home and take your property.

First thing's first: Due process is NOT due process if it occurs AFTER the fact. Both the House and Senate bills at the GA do exactly this. This is the order in which this works.

1. Anyone can walk in off the street, and swear a complaint before a Commonwealth's Attorney or Magistrate.
2. The CA or Magistrate then plays errand boy, and takes it to the judge, INSULATING THE ACCUSER from going before a judge, or swearing any form of oath. Even the most bold-faced lie can only be charged with a misdemeanor!
3. You are not, I repeat, N-O-T, informed of ANY of this. Your first notification is when the cops show up, I pray not at 5 in the morning, as in Ann Arundel, Md. That incident ended in an execution. The alleged "due process" does not occur until two or three weeks LATER!
4. To retrieve your property, or restore your good name, you DO have to go before a judge, swear an oath, and if you so much as lie to the judge about where you car is parked, you are on the hook for perjury, A CLASS 5 FELONY. Your accuser is NOT required to attend. Again, insulated from perjury charges.

The FOURTH AMENDMENT contains two protections: from SEARCH AND SEIZURE and warrants without PROBABLE CAUSE. The word of some yahoo wandering in off the street is N-O-T probable cause. If the probable cause is illegitimate, so is the seizure.

The FIFTH AMENDMENT contains five protections. The two violated here are DUE PROCESS, and possibly JUST COMPENSATION. As I said, due process is NOT due process if it comes after the fact. Additionally, the bill requires ONLY that guns be returned (maybe, eventually). NOWHERE do the bills say that they must be returned IN THE CONDITION RECEIVED! In fact, law enforcement is specifically shielded from any liability, criminal OR CIVIL, for damage or theft in their custody. You could surrender a collection of fully functional firearms, and receive damaged guns or piles of useless parts in return. You will have NO recourse, hence the potential violation of just compensation.

The SIXTH AMENDMENT contains six protections, ALL OF WHICH are trampled. PUBLIC TRIAL is replaced by a kangaroo court. The IMPARTIAL JURY is supplanted with a single judge. You are not even informed that there IS an accusation, much less are you INFORMED OF THE NATURE AND CAUSE, allowed to CONFRONT YOUR ACCUSER, bring WITNESSES ON YOUR BEHALF, or even have ASSISTANCE OF COUNSEL. These last three only come your way two or three weeks after the fact. Too little, TOO LATE!

Now, set all of that aside for a minute. Let's boil this down to the core. If someone is SO dangerous that we have to invade his/her home and seize his/her property, AND, they are SO dangerous that we must trample all of our most sacred legal protections to do it, WHY IS THIS INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS PERSON LEFT ON THE STREET, UNDER THEIR OWN RECOGNIZANCE? Wouldn't a temporary detention order be a better idea? Under a TDO, a dangerous person would get supervised, evaluated, and treated, and Virginia already HAS a TDO process in place!

I hope that this clearly highlights the problems involving red flag orders.

although the Emperor couldn't care less about any of these issues, afterall, he real goal is to incarcerate as many people as possible.

 

[C3D]

The author should do his research. The Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial does not apply in civil cases.

 

[Defilade]

Pure Evil sat around a table together to find a certain way to find a run around from our protections. They need to be destroyed! This is so against what this Country was founded on.

 

[Saltwater60]

Your all forgetting something the more guns get confiscated in nys the better for nys liberals.

 

[Shadow2]

HA! Law enforcement have actual proof/facts before they strip you of your rights ... Now that's comedy.

 

[Jmac00]

The author should do his research. The Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial does not apply in civil cases.

it does if you're charged with a felony

 

[BDinPutnam]

it does if you're charged with a felony

How could you be charged with a felony in a civil case?

 

[Jmac00]

I guess i don't understand RFL, I thought weapons charges were a felony, my bad

 

[BDinPutnam]

I guess i don't understand RFL, I thought weapons charges were a felony, my bad

Not at all. I misread an earlier post that implied this is in the civil laws; that's on me. Sorry.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

To be honest, NY doesn’t even need a red flag law, as they already abuse what is on the books.

I know, because they did it to me! I’m not going to write about here as I have posted elsewhere. Somebody wants to know more, they can PM me.

Suffice it to say, it is a damn slippery slope, and it sucks big time.

FUAC!

 

[Jmac00]

Red Flag laws raise heresay to a level of preponderance of evidence in order to trigger the unconstitutional confiscation of firearms and simultaneous violation of constitutional due process rights. I don't see how they stand the scrutiny of a SCOTUS review.

I see another problem coming, which may or may not be the design of the leftists and socialists in this country. I see them flooding the country with so much simultaneous unconstitutional legislation, above and beyond the 2nd amendment, that it cannot all possibly be heard by the Supreme Court in any timely manner. Seems very Alinsky to me.

this is happening as we type. Illinois just introducted legislation that would ban ALL semi-auto firearms, we will be seeing much more of this bullshit in the next 30 days

 

[Justincase]

Just talked to an acquaintance yesterday who's going through a divorce and had all his firearms confiscated. You would never in a million years believe the reason why. I was dumbstruck when he told me the reason. Due process is completely non-existent when it comes to taking your guns.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

this is happening as we type. Illinois just introducted legislation that would ban ALL semi-auto firearms, we will be seeing much more of this bullshit in the next 30 days

I think as discouraging and scary as it is, things need to go full retard before they get better.

 

[Jmac00]

Just talked to an acquaintance yesterday who's going through a divorce and had all his firearms confiscated. You would never in a million years believe the reason why. I was dumbstruck when he told me the reason. Due process is completely non-existent when it comes to taking your guns.

sooo, why did they take his guns, simply because he's getting a divorce?

 

[1911guy]

I stole this from a FB page I follow. This gentlemen makes a very good arguement as to the issues with the Red Flag laws



although the Emperor couldn't care less about any of these issues, afterall, he real goal is to incarcerate as many people as possible.

to the contrary, he wants to release criminals and lock up honest folk who disagree with him.

 

[Justincase]

sooo, why did they take his guns, simply because he's getting a divorce?

No, but the reason is completely innocuous. I don't want to say here on the forum just in case either he's on here or in the rare event it could become problematic for him if someone thinks he's spouting off about his case to anyone who will listen...which is what he should do in my opinion.