Apparently, another coward.

Cooolone

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Oh boy... So here we go, now lawsuits against law enforcement for them not dying like victims if they are present at a violent encounter! Because you know, the weather, the State, the Feds, the property owner, the people walking by, the people who ran away... They are all responsible...

Except the shooter! Geeeeeee, they're just a product of their environment!

Morons and the lawyers should be strung up for this frivolous garbage!!!
 
Celt

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Cooolone said:
Oh boy... So here we go, now lawsuits against law enforcement for them not dying like victims if they are present at a violent encounter! Because you know, the weather, the State, the Feds, the property owner, the people walking by, the people who ran away... They are all responsible...

Except the shooter! Geeeeeee, they're just a product of their environment!

Morons and the lawyers should be strung up for this frivolous garbage!!!
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The only difference here, is that I believe law enforcement has a duty to respond in situations like this we're not law enforcement do not. Although in this particular case I would need to hear more facts before I pass judgment so my comment is just in general. Perhaps someone in law enforcement can explain this.

But I do agree that (many, not all) lawyers are like cockroaches, and they are ruining this country in general.

@Airborneguy
@Truebeliever
 
Marine Cpl

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Once there, I think a LEO has a duty to respond just like a Doctor or EMT has to if they have the ability to provide medical assistance in an emergency.

I think any one of us would have if we happened to be there. Assuming it wasn't a gay club. :D We'd have no business being there.
 
Doc8404

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Depends on state (and jurisdiction?) I believe.

My buddy is a trooper in CT and IF he takes the car home he is supposed to respond. Once he had kids he quit taking the car.
 
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Airborneguy

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Celt said:
Correct, and as such does he have a duty to respond? @Airborneguy
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Unless they have a system where he wears the uniform off duty approved by the department, he wasn’t a cop at the time of the incident.

As to purely being off-duty, I’ve never seen a lawsuit where an off-duty cop was sued successfully for not intervening. Here the standard is “do something”, which basically means be a good witness and call 911. Anything extra is up to you. But either way, if i drive past a bad car accident and somehow am “caught”, what can I be sued for?
 
Marine Cpl

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Airborneguy said:
So? Still just a security guard.
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I don't get what your point is. Please don't make this a blue line crap thing. My point is that he got hired to do a job to protect the club and he didn't do it so they say.

And I think it's even more wrong that he was an Leo during a crime in progress and made no attempt to stop it.

If it wasn't a gay bar and you and I were in there shooting the shit, I'm sure we wouldn't run outside and take cover. More so if we were working there. You as an off duty cop and me as a licensed guard. No?
 
Airborneguy

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Willjr75 said:
I don't get what your point is. Please don't make this a blue line crap thing. My point is that he got hired to do a job to protect the club and he didn't do it so they say.

And I think it's even more wrong that he was an Leo during a crime in progress and made no attempt to stop it.

If it wasn't a gay bar and you and I were in there shooting the shit, I'm sure we wouldn't run outside and take cover. More so if we were working there. You as an off duty cop and me as a licensed guard. No?
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Of course I’d intervene with you. We probably wouldn’t even think about it. My point isn’t that he was correct to puss out, simply that he wasn’t acting in his capacity as a police officer unless they have a similar arrangement to what we have where off-duty, in uniform employment is sanctioned by the department.

The stadiums here are an example of that. The team pays while those cops are inside in uniform.

If I’m at Yankee Stadium doing paid detail, I have a duty to act. If I’m working off duty at a bar in whatever suit the bar designates, I have no such responsibility.
 
Cooolone

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The ridiculousness of it is that they want to make someone or something else responsible other than the shooter! Fact is if they guy wasn't shooting anything nobody would be dead, or hurt...

Like suing the ammo manufacturer... Just NO! Outside of "real" culpability, and erroneous action which negligently and directly caused an injury, NO! Don't give a shit what anyone says, even with a badge on, it's just a job. These lawsuits shouldn't be allowed to see the inside of a courtroom. This is just a bunch of POS lawyers trying to bleed the system and take advantage of jury sentiment on an issue that is hot, prevalent in everyone's minds, etc.

Does a person who was inured in automobile accident sue the tire manufacturer for not making stickier tires that would've stopped 2' shorter (distance)? I'm not a big fan of the blanket shield laws which exist as they do, but this is different. Not entirely unexpected in this day & age though., what else is new!
 
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Airborneguy said:
Of course I’d intervene with you. We probably wouldn’t even think about it. My point isn’t that he was correct to puss out, simply that he wasn’t acting in his capacity as a police officer unless they have a similar arrangement to what we have where off-duty, in uniform employment is sanctioned by the department.

The stadiums here are an example of that. The team pays while those cops are inside in uniform.

If I’m at Yankee Stadium doing paid detail, I have a duty to act. If I’m working off duty at a bar in whatever suit the bar designates, I have no such responsibility.
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I don't know. Not saying I'm a brave badass but if I was being paid to do a job, I'd do it.

I don't think it would be any different if I was working there or a patron there shooting the shit.
 
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Wasn't the security guard the first one shot? I thought he was outside and shot when the guy came in. Or is there a second guy?
 
Exonautic

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Willjr75 said:
I don't know. Not saying I'm a brave badass but if I was being paid to do a job, I'd do it.

I don't think it would be any different if I was working there or a patron there shooting the shit.
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Unfortunately security guard jobs aren't something anyone would put their life on the line for. That's a business agreement in the end. If the club wanted to sure him for failure of duties, they'd probably have a case if he ran away screaming. There's no law for a security guard to go running into an active shooting. Off duty Le or not. Unless of course there was an arrangement like @Airborneguy said.
 
Airborneguy

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Willjr75 said:
I don't know. Not saying I'm a brave badass but if I was being paid to do a job, I'd do it.

I don't think it would be any different if I was working there or a patron there shooting the shit.
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As would I, but as far as civil liability goes, these people probably don’t have a case.

People sue municipalities in situations like these because municipalities have lots of money, not because their claim is always rock solid.

Suing me would get you nothing, and I certainly won’t settle. Suing the City of New York could net you millions, but most likely, a respectable settlement even if you have little legal standing.
 
Acer-m14

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what was the security contracted duties ... protect from a asshole with a gun and bomb ?? or for bar fights and complaints and checking Id's ??
 
Exonautic

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Acer-m14 said:
what was the security contracted duties ... protect from a asshole with a gun and bomb ?? or for bar fights and complaints and checking Id's ??
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Exactly, but even then it's a contractual agreement not one that compels them bu law.
 
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Doesn't matter what incentives you give or contract. No one is going to potentially lay down their life unless they want to, or the alternative is worse than dying. And that's a damn short list.
 
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