Oh and I'm starting to lean more to the 16" for the barrel length
AR-15 deer hunting caliber learning
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
To fvck with authority you need a big powerful dick. Every porn-star knows that. 
With a 10rd mag I can put close to 1/2 pound of lead at 300 yards in 5 seconds if I wan to go rambo on something.
A 30 round magazine can put 1.5lbs of lead to demolish anything.
The BEO and socom start with a bit more weight but not energy but at 50 yards they are already left behind due to
poor ballistics and the trajectories they describe are not what
one would consider very friendly. Still good proven killers in close work/ northern woods.
Our development from last year puts more killing at 200-300 yards than any other alternative
including the 308 itself but in this case from an AR15.
Some diva bullets with the biker bitch...
Two amazing hunting calibers for the AR: 6.8 (easy) and 35 gunner (custom cat)...
With a 10rd mag I can put close to 1/2 pound of lead at 300 yards in 5 seconds if I wan to go rambo on something.
A 30 round magazine can put 1.5lbs of lead to demolish anything.
The BEO and socom start with a bit more weight but not energy but at 50 yards they are already left behind due to
poor ballistics and the trajectories they describe are not what
one would consider very friendly. Still good proven killers in close work/ northern woods.
Our development from last year puts more killing at 200-300 yards than any other alternative
including the 308 itself but in this case from an AR15.
Some diva bullets with the biker bitch...
Two amazing hunting calibers for the AR: 6.8 (easy) and 35 gunner (custom cat)...
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Oh and I know reloading was mentioned.
I have been meaning to pick up one of the Lee hand presses which would work fine for me. Limited on space and lower volume shooting.
I have one of their turret press starter kits I bought years ago sitting at my parents house but never got it really set up or anything of have room for it myself
I have been meaning to pick up one of the Lee hand presses which would work fine for me. Limited on space and lower volume shooting.
I have one of their turret press starter kits I bought years ago sitting at my parents house but never got it really set up or anything of have room for it myself
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
When I first got into reloading I got the hand press to see if I wanted to stick with it. I reloaded a hell of alot of rounds with that thing and still use it every once in a while for certain operations. It would be perfect if all you want to do is make a few rounds for hunting. Fair warning though. Reloading is addictive.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
To load for performance rounds and low moderate volume not much is needed. One can reload on a closet type of space
or a kitchen table and keep all necessary items in a small bin.
A small single stage press pays by itself in a few rounds. Some pay by themselves by producing 50 rounds of high performance
calibers. The only consideration is that a large magnum might need a long arm large frame press. I have one only for that purpose
and brass forming wildcats and new designs when the going gets really tough. But otherwise a small lee will do the same as presses costing
hundreds more. And if you find out you like reloading and whatever else in the future everyone needs a small press to bring to the range to
work on charges and just seating bullets so one can take notes of the spreads.
Reloading is about consistency. One might not reproduce a factory load but even exceed values but as one round is accurate and one can produce each one as a carbon copy of the one before then that is what you want. Preparation is the key here. Not even need for a tumbler. you can wash brass that is even better.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
To produce quality loads one doesn't need a tumbler.
One doesn't even need a scale and reload by volume althoug a $20 jewlery scale will do it.
One doesn't even need special priming tool and can prime with the press.
Something as simple as this with lee dies is capable of producing a lifetime supply of very good ammo with some care to detail.
Lee Breech Lock Reloader Single Stage Press - MPN: 90045
One doesn't even need a scale and reload by volume althoug a $20 jewlery scale will do it.
One doesn't even need special priming tool and can prime with the press.
Something as simple as this with lee dies is capable of producing a lifetime supply of very good ammo with some care to detail.
Lee Breech Lock Reloader Single Stage Press - MPN: 90045
My Stoner 7.62x39 barrel is bored at .310. Are you saying that .308 bullets are fine to use? I'd love to play with them as .310 and .311 bullets are much more limited in choices.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Being able to use 308 in a .310 all the way up to .312 bores has always been possible but you will lose accuracy especially at longer ranges.
That’s what I figured. He seems to be saying itms doable, which coming from him I’d expect he thinks accurately.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
It really depends on the rifling and the bullet itself. The advertised bore might not be what it says. maybe it is .3105 or .3905 and then you have to add the rifling and type of rifling like a 6 or 5 enfield type so the more grooves you have the more material has to be swagged so then the bore tolerance becomes
less relevant. Normally if they are .310 might be a 4 or 5 groove but it is hard to say because also some barrel makers do not give two fucks to what you are trying to achieve.
But the hybrid chambers and barrels are out there since the time of the wildcat = for ever. I would say now even more since there seems to be a new interest in slow moving calibers thanks to the whisper/blackout saturday night fever. But the 7.62x39 with modern brass it has so much more room to play with. All you might need is another sizer button for your resizing die/s that is 308 when you use 308 bullets.
But definitively you can give it a try. There is no risk at all given the typical reloading considerations. You could swag the bullets you are intending to use or simply start with some average loads and see how they group.
You will find this Article from Zak Smith very interesting. lots of things can be done to pump up the old 7.62x39 and do it safely.
7.62x39: Improving the Military Standard
Remember that this round was designed to be made cheap and in steel casings. Now with cases like lapua and modern guns all sort of options are available. This one leaves the blackout behind at every single role other than buying a few mags that pay by themselves with just a few cases of cheap steel ammo for practice. I still have surplus ammo that I collected through the years as low as 10 cents / round. Then a few lapua or hornady brass cases will give you all sort of possibilities. I am saying from having reloading and shooting both the whisper and the 7.62x39. So if one day I go back to reload and shoot these phased out light for caliber slow moving calibers the 7.62x39 is the one that is going to give you a wider range of possibilities and specially to hunt with more punch.
And if you read articles that this is worse than the blackout or this one is in par with the 30-30, and those articles are out there in "professional" magazines, is because they do not have a fvcking idea of what they are talking about or they are trying to sell you something, or both.
The 7.62x39 sits nicely between the 30 carbine, blackout and the venerable 30-30 and yes! ..it can be loaded with nice 308 bullets up to reasonable weights and sizes. In 308 the selection is huge and you have 130, 135gr, 140gr bullets that are perfect for this casing. And in the AR you have PRI and ASC mags that give you over 2.3 coal so this is huge for many calibers.
I hope this helps.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Sometimes you loose and sometimes you gain it. Hard to say but if the bullets are properly swagged with a good seal and they have proper twist (most do) and they gain speed (less bore friction) then a faster round, all other things being equal, is, by design, a more accurate round (time to target)
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
oh and btw the 7.62x39 will take the same 110gr TTSX they made for the Barak and instead of launching that at 2200-2300fps it will put it at
2,600 fps with popular powders and the same 16" size barrel. So this is a lot better for these type of bullets that really work best when
injected at higher speeds upon impact. light for caliber bullets (mostly varmint selection) starting at slow speeds is a bad idea but hey,
in the internet and youtube anything is possible!!
2,600 fps with popular powders and the same 16" size barrel. So this is a lot better for these type of bullets that really work best when
injected at higher speeds upon impact. light for caliber bullets (mostly varmint selection) starting at slow speeds is a bad idea but hey,
in the internet and youtube anything is possible!!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah but Merica. We like heavy and slow. Like the .45 ACP you know. The BO is perfect for those men.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
hey Will,
with the 45 at least one can put some real heavy weight compounded with a substantial frontal section. So the ideal impact speed threshold goes down
naturally even with flat meplat that can be very efficient like those hard cast from buffalo bore.
At the other hand 110gr in 30 caliber is worse than the same weight in any other caliber below. Most of those were designed for varmint with
the exception of the sp/fmj that were originally designed for the 30 carbine. There are a couple of lighter ones for the 30 cal pistols like 80gr
but those are anecdotal.
In addition the pistol calibers have terminal designs intended for much lower impact speeds like the hollow points, something you do not have
in 30 caliber unless you pay a pretty premium for a specialty low speed impact design. Otherwise slow supersonic and subsonic suck ass in terms
of wounding potential. Many pistol bullets that are plentiful and very inexpensive and can be used for hunting at close range.
We are talking about hunting and not body armor right? ...otherwise we know that is needed. Also I prefer the speed of flat shooting more
powerful calibers so you can combine the massive shock with the wounding and also extended range. But since we are talking about
slow stuff and for the short distances and subsonic, yeah, a 45 caliber 250gr even subsonic so much better than any 110gr 30 caliber no matter what.
Also, tossing premium 30 cal match bullets (like most others) at subsonic speeds is throwing dollars out the window.
The AR15 doesn't make much sense above 7mm and that is pushing it already but anything a 30 cal bullet does, a 7mm does it much better
in the same weight range (ballistics efficiency). And then at the 35+375 bores and above, a whole new range of possibilities shows up.
So the 30 caliber, 338, 348 ...nah.. do not make much sense in the AR15. Even I would say that in any rifle for any use anything above 35 and
375 doesn't make much sense. Here in bolt action the 338, 35 and 375 makes the most sense and those will cover any use for anything.
This is not theory. We have actually proved that with the most popular calibers and a few others cats in various bores.
I mean, if the 7.62x39 was not there then it would probably would be a 7mm or a 6mm even better for military use. But since we have
this caliber and on the cheap then there is no need to look into anything else IMO. It just doesn't pay off.
Otherwise the 30 cals are great for what most people use them great like the 30-30, 308, 30-06, win mag and such that are the most
popular calibers on the planet for a lot of things.
In terms of AR15 fantasies, we can wish it, imagine it, dream it, adore it, but the laws of physics, that is what is behind ballistics, will
eventually put each caliber where it belongs.
Once we define a purpose then everything starts and ends with a bullet, hopefully a good one. The rest is just part of the mail service.
@meketrefe that 7.62x39 article was great, thank you.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
NP. Zak is the real deal (founder of the highroad). ...however there is a lot more to it but I always thought that was a decent write up as opening appetizer.
Go to the cats, sks and ak forums and look for the 7.62x39 hybrid/308 bullets. You have an ocean of information out there.
Remember for accuracy this caliber can be loaded with good brass and bullets to shoot in score competition with a good rifle obviously like
a CZ bolt action. Those are not going to be close to your max loads but then it can be pumped hotter to hunt with certain authority.
Here more specific to 30 cal bullets. See the results. Speers are great for this type of exercise like they are for other calibers like 6mm and 7mm
and not too expensive...
https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/BenchTopics 47 LR.pdf
have fun reading.
Now would it be worth the slight weight increase to bump up to the 6.5 creedmoor?
Now almost all my hunting is white tail, no more than 100 yards, but
1) the land has a good amount of black bears, my dad tagged one back in 2011 and our trail cam picked up 3 two years ago, and the land owner tagged one last season.
2) the less likely situation, it would be nice to have something that is almost usable on most animals anywhere here in the US. Thinking one day I'd love to go shoot a Pronghorn, or a mule deer or even an axis one day.
So I'm thinking that while the 6.5 grendel and 6.8 spc might be a good choice for just some deer I'm wondering if why not just bump up to the 6.5 creedmoor
Now almost all my hunting is white tail, no more than 100 yards, but
1) the land has a good amount of black bears, my dad tagged one back in 2011 and our trail cam picked up 3 two years ago, and the land owner tagged one last season.
2) the less likely situation, it would be nice to have something that is almost usable on most animals anywhere here in the US. Thinking one day I'd love to go shoot a Pronghorn, or a mule deer or even an axis one day.
So I'm thinking that while the 6.5 grendel and 6.8 spc might be a good choice for just some deer I'm wondering if why not just bump up to the 6.5 creedmoor
ManrisFrack
6.5 Creedmoor
6.8 will take black bear - https://68forums.com/forums/showthr...-Hunting-with-my-6-8-ARP&highlight=black+bear I don't think they're too much tougher than whitetail, just have make sure your bullet can get through some bone without coming apart or, preferably, wait for a good shot and avoid the bone.
I'd personally use a copper or bonded to ensure a pass-through but that guy did just fine with the cup and core SST.
I'd personally use a copper or bonded to ensure a pass-through but that guy did just fine with the cup and core SST.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Now you are talking about a different type of action.
Then why a 6.5 and not a 7mm/08 or the 308 itself?
The 308 is a service round with endless and affordable possibilities. Can do pretty much anything the 6.5 can do and a few more things.
Are you going to shoot long range high volume score competition at paper targets only? Even if you do, the 7mm/08 will do better at this and any other things you might need anyway.
But the 308 will serve you well from lightning fast 120gr-130gr bullets that shoot like a laser beam with lower recoil, to the heaviest 180gr
partition that can take down a grizzly.
So, if you don't want a heavy round simply use and/or load lighter rounds for white tail but have the option to go hot and heavy and also use
military surplus rounds or surplus components for defense or cheap practice.
Again the 7mm/08 will outperform ballistically both, the 6.5mm and the 308 but is that reason enough for steering away from the 308?
Just look at the 30 cal bullet selection including 120-130 gr for white tail.
I am not saying the 6.5mm is a bad caliber, I have a couple of them but I don't shoot them that much because of the 7mm and 30 calibers that I have.
For the average person, for the largest amount of possible objectives and uses, and being also a service round, it is hard to justify not sticking
with the 308, and if for whatever reason ones wants an edge on ballistics then the 7mm/08 is the ticket.
If it is for other reasons like consolidation or a fashion thing then I understand but perhaps you want to think pragmatically about it.
The 308 will put 3200 fps on a barnes 130gr TTSX that is like hitting a white tail with lightning bolt. Instant shock and comma so you
can anchor the game where it stands in most cases.