AR-15 Pistol Build - Lets Talk About It

[twax100]

So yesterday I won a free Spikes Tactical lower (awesome right), and today I need to decide what I want to do with it. First thought that came to mind was a pistol build considering that's something that the arsenal is lacking. I figured this could be a good thread to sort out some questions that myself and others might have on the topic. All this will be talked about with my lawyer, for my protection, before any work is started but hopefully I can learn something here.

For starters, the lower... I understand that this needs to be placed on my pistol permit. So my FFL will need to transfer this just like any other pistol? Can this be transferred as 'other' then amended once the mag is fixed? Is there any extra info or problems that may arise during the transfer or when I attempt to amend the lower to my permit?

Fixed mag... it appears a fixed magazine is my only option here. Not only does this allow me to add "features" but it exempts me from the 50oz rule correct? Is an AR Maglock a good option? Will I be able to add a pistol grip, foregrip, threaded barrel etc. as I wish with this option? Any problems I'm missing here?

Buffer... I understand this can't have a stock, that would make it an SBR. Is something such as a Sig arm brace or simply just a padded buffer tube my only 2 options?

I'm prepared to be let down with the info gathered here but the more you know the better. I'm sure more questions will arise in the future but this should get us started.

What're my options?

 

[Jem45472]

Do it! I had zero problems in erie county. Just need an ffl that will do it for you.

Here's my 8.5" 300 blackout

 

[Eddie Gunks]

The issue is, if the loan was transferred to your FFL as in other, and that is the correct way to do that, your FFL is then going to check it out as a pistol, which means he's manufactured a pistol. Which is technically not legal for him to do.

In New York whenever you receive a pistol you must send a P 12 form to the state police saying they received a pistol and who from, when you sell a pistol you need to send the same form that you sold it and who you sold it to.

So your FF L probably did not complete this P 12, when he received it, which could present a little problem for him in the future.

Again, this is the black-and-white version. I know that this happens in the gray area. You just need to understand what's going on.

In my opinion it is better for everyone involved to either buy the one that Jem has listed for sale, or have a pistol brought in the correct way.

We have AR pistols available for purchase if you decide to go that route.

 

[Jem45472]

@Bullet Guy - I have recently been advised that the sig brace may be a no go (of course) in NY, even with the atf letter stating it's not a stock. I was told ny says it's possible to be fired from shoulder. I said I can fire my 1911 from my shoulder if I really felt like it, this is bs. What are your thoughts on this?

Ps I need to edit my f/s add, I've decided to keep it.

 

[Uzi]

The sig brace for a pistol build in my opinion is too bulky and funky looking in my opinion. I like many others use the shockwave. I love the shockwave stabilizer, it's very lightweight and has a good look to it. You might have a difficult time being able to put a lower that's already legally in your possession on a pistol permit. Whatever you end up doing, you can either make it fixed, or bolt action is another option. The fixed option I choose and I'm happy with my build. It has ran perfectly from day one. No adjustments or changes were ever made. I was so happy with how it turned out that I'm currently working on duplicating it with a matching rifle, but in .223 wylde with many of the same parts. If you do a pistol build, I would highly advise against chambering it in 5.56/.223. Do you own research why, too many people get butthurt and can't deal with it. I run a 7" 300aac blackout barrel with a 1/8 twist with no velocity loss over a full sized barrel and wouldn't prefer anything else. The 300aac blackout is really the number one choice for short barreled pistols in my opinion. 300aac blackout doesn't need to be suppressed for an advantage, that's optional nowadays. I never even shot subsonic rounds out of mine (don't need or care to) but I'm getting a minimum of 2,500 - 2,700 fps with the abundance of blackout and 300 whisper supersonic rounds. So there's that... oh and it's 30 caliber too.

 

[Jem45472]

The sig brace for a pistol build in my opinion is too bulky and funky looking in my opinion. I like many others use the shockwave. I love the shockwave stabilizer, it's very lightweight and has a good look to it. You might have a difficult time being able to put a lower that's already legally in your possession on a pistol permit. Whatever you end up doing, you can either make it fixed, or bolt action is another option. The fixed option I choose and I'm happy with my build. It has ran perfectly from day one. No adjustments or changes were ever made. I was so happy with how it turned out that I'm currently working on duplicating it with a matching rifle, but in .223 wylde with many of the same parts. If you do a pistol build, I would highly advise against chambering it in 5.56/.223. Do you own research why, too many people get butthurt and can't deal with it. I run a 7" 300aac blackout barrel with a 1/8 twist with no velocity loss over a full sized barrel and wouldn't prefer anything else. The 300aac blackout is really the number one choice for short barreled pistols in my opinion. 300aac blackout doesn't need to be suppressed for an advantage, that's optional nowadays. I never even shot subsonic rounds out of mine (don't need or care to) but I'm getting a minimum of 2,500 - 2,700 fps with the abundance of blackout and 300 whisper supersonic rounds. So there's that... oh and it's 30 caliber too.

I applied the same reasoning. 300blk is great for short barrels in my opinion. For me it was a toss up between the Shockwave and (overpriced) sig brace. I decided on the sig actually because it is heavier, and as a result balances everything very nicely.

 

[twax100]

The issue is, if the loan was transferred to your FFL as in other, and that is the correct way to do that, your FFL is then going to check it out as a pistol, which means he's manufactured a pistol. Which is technically not legal for him to do.

In New York whenever you receive a pistol you must send a P 12 form to the state police saying they received a pistol and who from, when you sell a pistol you need to send the same form that you sold it and who you sold it to.

So your FF L probably did not complete this P 12, when he received it, which could present a little problem for him in the future.

Again, this is the black-and-white version. I know that this happens in the gray area. You just need to understand what's going on.

In my opinion it is better for everyone involved to either buy the one that Jem has listed for sale, or have a pistol brought in the correct way.

We have AR pistols available for purchase if you decide to go that route.

All great info BG thanks. So if the lower is sent to my FFL as a pistol and he transfers it to me as a pistol does that remove any problems? Can it then be amended to my permit just like any other pistol so I can take possession of it? I assume that's how it would be done with say a stripped Glock lower, so I guess that was my thinking here.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Eddie Gunks]

All great info BG thanks. So if the lower is sent to my FFL as a pistol and he transfers it to me as a pistol does that remove any problems? Can it then be amended to my permit just like any other pistol so I can take possession of it? I assume that's how it would be done with say a stripped Glock lower, so I guess that was my thinking here.

Thanks again for the help!

Yup. That is the easy to do it.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

@Bullet Guy - I have recently been advised that the sig brace may be a no go (of course) in NY, even with the atf letter stating it's not a stock. I was told ny says it's possible to be fired from shoulder. I said I can fire my 1911 from my shoulder if I really felt like it, this is bs. What are your thoughts on this?

Ps I need to edit my f/s add, I've decided to keep it.

Not true. A brace is a brace.

Use a shockwave.

Moot point. No issues down here. Everyone runs a brace down here. Even the cops.

 

[Jem45472]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[twax100]

Thanks for the info everyone. Learned a lot already.

For the record, with a fixed mag and shockwave brace, all other features are a go?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Thanks for the info everyone. Learned a lot already.

For the record, with a fixed mag and shockwave brace, all other features are a go?

Yup. Really only way to go.

 

[spat]

Just out of curousity, what keeps you from being able to add an "other" to a pistol permit ?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Just out of curousity, what keeps you from being able to add an "other" to a pistol permit ?

The state police require you to fill out a P 12 for every pistol you received. If you're already in possession of said other, you had better get the add it to your permit before you complete it and it would be OK.

The challenges getting your local police department, sheriff to add it to your permit without having paperwork from an FFL.

My local sheriff even harassed me to the point that I had to put my FFL number on my receipts, printed , or they wouldn't allow people to add pistols to their permit.

 

[pmcjuryny]

I recently build an ar pistol and ran into a couple of small issues.

The first and most disappointing was the wanna be lawyer working behind the counter, that was sure I would be breaking nys law and possibly federal law by building the lower as a pistol. I had already spoken to the owner of the shop and got the ok to do the transfer there from him, and a quick phone call to him cleared things up for the employee.

Secondly, I had a couple problems at the monroe county clerks office. The lower was not marked with a caliber, but rather as multi, the clerks office said they will not accept that anymore. The second issue was that the ammendment form did not list a barrel length, which makes sense for a stripped lower, but again this was a no go with the clerk.

I wound up adding a caliber and a barrel length to the form, after calling the shop and letting them know what I was doing and why. After that it was handled just like any other pistol transfer. I would make sure the dealer listed the caliber and barrel length in the future, but those are only really known if you already have the upper.

Other then that I had no problems, I build mine with a psa 11.5 inch upper, psa pistol lower kit, and an all star tactical mag lock.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[NY Leatherneck]

300 blk with 10.5 barrel. Went with Shockwave. Even personally wrote ATF and got an opinion letter that its good to go.

 

[twax100]

300 blk with 10.5 barrel. Went with Shockwave. Even personally wrote ATF and got an opinion letter that its good to go.
View attachment 8558

So no shouldering allowed but it can be shot using a sling and pushing outward correct?

Also love the build!

 

[twax100]

I recently build an ar pistol and ran into a couple of small issues.

The first and most disappointing was the wanna be lawyer working behind the counter, that was sure I would be breaking nys law and possibly federal law by building the lower as a pistol. I had already spoken to the owner of the shop and got the ok to do the transfer there from him, and a quick phone call to him cleared things up for the employee.

Secondly, I had a couple problems at the monroe county clerks office. The lower was not marked with a caliber, but rather as multi, the clerks office said they will not accept that anymore. The second issue was that the ammendment form did not list a barrel length, which makes sense for a stripped lower, but again this was a no go with the clerk.

I wound up adding a caliber and a barrel length to the form, after calling the shop and letting them know what I was doing and why. After that it was handled just like any other pistol transfer. I would make sure the dealer listed the caliber and barrel length in the future, but those are only really known if you already have the upper.

Other then that I had no problems, I build mine with a psa 11.5 inch upper, psa pistol lower kit, and an all star tactical mag lock.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Thanks for the info!

I'm curious though, what does the barrel length have to do with anything? I'm aware of the difference between rifle length and pistol length but I've never been asked the length of a barrel while putting a pistol on my permit.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Thanks for the info!

I'm curious though, what does the barrel length have to do with anything? I'm aware of the difference between rifle length and pistol length but I've never been asked the length of a barrel while putting a pistol on my permit.

It must be only in his county because I've never had to list barrel length.

 

[NY Leatherneck]

So no shouldering allowed but it can be shot using a sling and pushing outward correct?

Also love the build!

Actually, it can be shouldered. ATF has said that the shockwave is intended and designed as a brace. The misuse by an operator although not recommended is not a violation of the NFA.

 

[pmcjuryny]

It must be only in his county because I've never had to list barrel length.

Yeah, must be a monroe county thing they want barrel length on the ammendment form. Although a note on barrel length, if you go long enough to reach an oal of more then 26 inches, the atf no longer considers it a handgun, and you can put a vertical grip on it, without running afoul of the aow laws

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Actually, it can be shouldered. ATF has said that the shockwave is intended and designed as a brace. The misuse by an operator although not recommended is not a violation of the NFA.

This^^^^^

 

[twax100]

Ahhhh I gotcha. You guys rock!

 

[stuck in ny]

Thats

Yeah, must be a monroe county thing they want barrel length on the ammendment form. Although a note on barrel length, if you go long enough to reach an oal of more then 26 inches, the atf no longer considers it a handgun, and you can put a vertical grip on it, without running afoul of the aow laws

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

So what would it be under nys law, this ar with 26" OAL and 16 inch barrel but no buttstock? A prohibited firearm? Just a firearm like a spade gripped set up? Do the feature bans apply?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

No stock. 26 inches over all length. Fwd grip = other

 

[stuck in ny]

No stock. 26 inches over all length. Fwd grip = other

So does the feature ban still apply?

 

[pmcjuryny]

So does the feature ban still apply?

That is the million dollar question. Given that it isn't a rifle, isn't a shotgun, and according to the atf isn't a pistol, it seems like it couldn't qualify as an assault weapon in ny regardless of its features. Having said that, I don't have a legal defense fund, so I put a mag lock on mine.

I would certainly be interested in a lawyers opinion, but haven't spent the time or money to get it yet.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[MilesTeg]

So does the feature ban still apply?

Fixed magazine = all the banned features not counting NFA. The fixed magazine is what gets you around the 50 oz. rule also.

 

[stuck in ny]

That is the million dollar question. Given that it isn't a rifle, isn't a shotgun, and according to the atf isn't a pistol, it seems like it couldn't qualify as an assault weapon in ny regardless of its features. Having said that, I don't have a legal defense fund, so I put a mag lock on mine.

I would certainly be interested in a lawyers opinion, but haven't spent the time or money to get it yet.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Would be nice if we could get somebody exempt, leo or manufacturer or something, to make this and force the state to rule what it is.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

That is the million dollar question. Given that it isn't a rifle, isn't a shotgun, and according to the atf isn't a pistol, it seems like it couldn't qualify as an assault weapon in ny regardless of its features. Having said that, I don't have a legal defense fund, so I put a mag lock on mine.

I would certainly be interested in a lawyers opinion, but haven't spent the time or money to get it yet.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

This^^^^^