ATF rule change, ID must show Full middle name

[REF]

The identification document presented by the transferee must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The identification document must also be valid (e.g., unexpired) and have been issued by a governmental entity for the purpose of identification of individuals. An example of an acceptable identification document is a current driver’s license.

just name .. not first middle and last ..

the box stores FFL are the owns asking for full middle name and giving people a hassle over it ..

when this issue first came about in i ask the small mom n pop local FFL about this .. .. her reply was there full of shit ..

i will be seeing her tomorrow and can ask again if you want me to ..

this is the same issue of going into walmart and buying a box of 9mm .. need a pistol permit .. it for a fking rifle ..

go to small mom n pop ffl and buy all the 9mm boxes i want with not ID or PP ..

Yep

 

[Acer-m14]

None of my ID’s have my full middle names on them, just initials,( Enhanced DL , Pistol permit, fishing license,etc). Soooooo…….. fuck Runnings??!?

same ..

my Birth cert maybe the only thing that has my middle name spelled out ..

 

[FP1201]

What if someone does not have a middle name at all?

My 79 year old mother does not have one.

In the Middle Name Block the initials "NMN" are to be written.
First thing the Dealer has to certify to is "Does the information on the 4473 including full name and address MATCH the Government Issued Identification presented?" You fill an electronic 4473 makes it somewhat faster, but the Dealer still has a Printed copy and has to match the information. Nothing really new, no conspiracy, just more effort to weed out and positively identify the buyer.

 

[Acer-m14]

First thing the Dealer has to certify to is "Does the information on the 4473 including full name and address MATCH the Government Issued Identification presented?

where on the 4473 does it say that ?

you work at Runnings or Walmart ??

read post #121

 

[fresch]

Shall not be infringed

 

[Saltwater60]

The identification document presented by the transferee must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The identification document must also be valid (e.g., unexpired) and have been issued by a governmental entity for the purpose of identification of individuals. An example of an acceptable identification document is a current driver’s license.

just name .. not first middle and last ..

the box stores FFL are the owns asking for full middle name and giving people a hassle over it ..

when this issue first came about in i ask the small mom n pop local FFL about this .. .. her reply was there full of shit ..

i will be seeing her tomorrow and can ask again if you want me to ..

this is the same issue of going into walmart and buying a box of 9mm .. need a pistol permit .. it for a fking rifle ..

go to small mom n pop ffl and buy all the 9mm boxes i want with not ID or PP ..

Yes that’s why I said birth certificate along with a drivers license to give the picture and the middle name of the middle name is lacking from the DL.

 

[Vapor]

Just have them put your middle name on your state issued hunting liscence.


That's what I did.

Went through two no issue.

 

[Acer-m14]

just talked with the FFL here no problem with writing my full middle name out on the 4473 and using my DL with only a middle ini on it ..

also they used to copy your drivers license to keep with the 4473 and they no longer can do that ..

 

[tc556guy]

just talked with the FFL here no problem with writing my full middle name out on the 4473 and using my DL with only a middle ini on it ..

also they used to copy your drivers license to keep with the 4473 and they no longer can do that ..

Your FFL is not up to date on the current rules. He'll most likely hear from the ATF inspector the next time they come to visit. This is part of the Real ID requirements that went into effect over a year ago

 

[tc556guy]

The identification document presented by the transferee must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The identification document must also be valid (e.g., unexpired) and have been issued by a governmental entity for the purpose of identification of individuals. An example of an acceptable identification document is a current driver’s license.

just name .. not first middle and last ..

the box stores FFL are the owns asking for full middle name and giving people a hassle over it ..

when this issue first came about in i ask the small mom n pop local FFL about this .. .. her reply was there full of shit ..

i will be seeing her tomorrow and can ask again if you want me to ..

this is the same issue of going into walmart and buying a box of 9mm .. need a pistol permit .. it for a fking rifle ..

go to small mom n pop ffl and buy all the 9mm boxes i want with not ID or PP ..

The birth certificate with the full legal name is used as supplemental id in conjunction with the photo id
The reason that mom and pop places aren't requiring it is they aren't up to speed on requirements and need to call their regular inspector for guidance if they aren't sure on the requirement

 

[Acer-m14]

Your FFL is not up to date on the current rules. He'll most likely hear from the ATF inspector the next time they come to visit. This is part of the Real ID requirements that went into effect over a year ago

so point to me on the 4473 instructions to fill out that it has to be matching to my legal ID .

if a damn store clerk cant figure out .. when someone writes middle name out .. .. John Doe Smith and his DL is John D Smith ..
someone needs a smack side the head ..

or John can just fill out the 4473 as John D (IO) Smith and show DL . match ..

 

[Acer-m14]

must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address,

does not say full middle name .. just a name and address ..

 

[tc556guy]

so point to me on the 4473 instructions to fill out that it has to be matching to my legal ID .

if a damn store clerk cant figure out .. when someone writes middle name out .. .. John Doe Smith and his DL is John D Smith ..
someone needs a smack side the head ..

or John can just fill out the 4473 as John D (IO) Smith and show DL . match ..

They haven't updated the fine print on the 4473.
Like I said, the FFL should contact their regular inspector for guidance if they are unsure on current policy

 

[tc556guy]

must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address,

does not say full middle name .. just a name and address ..

Most states display the full legal name on their driver's license. New York has for years let people carry drivers licenses that in some cases have only a first and middle initial.
I don't know why so many of you are objecting to bringing in a combination of documents to meet the requirements.
The FFL is promoted during the nics check to verify that the ID exactly matches the buyers full name and address. It sounds like some small dealers are ignoring that if they're still accepting ID with initials only

 

[Acer-m14]

ATF strongly encourages all FFLs to being using this new form immediately; however, it is not mandatory until Nov. 1, 2020. The revised form is available to either download or order online.

ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record Revisions | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

View the Updated ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record (August 2023 Revisions) Notice Regarding Previous Changes to the ATF Form 4473 Due to new statutory requirements set forth in both the NICS Denial Notification Act and the Bipartisan Safer Community Act (BSCA), and to reflect the...

www.atf.gov

back from the ATF site ..

Section B (Former Section A)​

Question 9 (Former Question 1) Transferee's/Buyers Full Name:

• Changed "recorded IO" after the initial" to "record the initial followed by "IO" in quotes"

"IO" initial Only ..

so what is Full name ??

they left some words out for the true meaning of full name ..

 

[Saltwater60]

Most states display the full legal name on their driver's license. New York has for years let people carry drivers licenses that in some cases have only a first and middle initial.
I don't know why so many of you are objecting to bringing in a combination of documents to meet the requirements.
The FFL is promoted during the nics check to verify that the ID exactly matches the buyers full name and address. It sounds like some small dealers are ignoring that if they're still accepting ID with initials only

My FFL specified full middle name last few checks.
also you are correct and if you look at the 4473 for it says middle name, if intial only follow intial by (IO), if no middle name (NMN).
Here’s the link for those questioning. ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record Revisions | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Acer-m14]

I don't know why so many of you are objecting to bringing in a combination of documents to meet the requirements.

just saying .. you know ..

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

[Beerman]

Need an update. My brother’s NY driver license only has his middle initial, FFL wants full middle name spelled out. He can’t find his birth certificate. (6 months for a re-issue from NYS Vital Records Dept.) I’ve heard of people getting a 1 day fishing license with full first/middle/last and using that with DL for ID/residence requirements. Any insight here?

 

[spat]

Need an update. My brother’s NY driver license only has his middle initial, FFL wants full middle name spelled out. He can’t find his birth certificate. (6 months for a re-issue from NYS Vital Records Dept.) I’ve heard of people getting a 1 day fishing license with full first/middle/last and using that with DL for ID/residence requirements. Any insight here?

The 4473 I filled out yesterday had a check box for "initial only".

My advice is to find another FFL who actually knows how to do the paperwork.

 

[Beerman]

The 4473 I filled out yesterday had a check box for "initial only".

My advice is to find another FFL who actually knows how to do the paperwork.

Bought gun already, went to pick it up, FFL won’t accept NYS DL without middle name spelled out. His new pistol license only has middle initial, also. (My pistol license is the same way.) I need to help him find the actual regs to figure out his options, if there are any. 6 mos for a new BC is ridiculous. This whole thing is ridiculous, but we already know that.

 

[ADK_GLKr]

The 4473 I filled out yesterday had a check box for "initial only".

My advice is to find another FFL who actually knows how to do the paperwork.

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I've worked at the Plattsburgh Runnings for over 3 years.

IT SEEMS TO BE A STOREWIDE POLICY!


We have stores in MN, ND, NY, NH, CT (etc.) And are required by Corporate to get Full name or IO (INITIAL ONLY) or NMI (No middle initial). Other local gun stores are still getting away with using middle initial.

 

[2WheelGnnr]

regardless of the 4473 I had 2 different FFLS tell me I needed the FULL MIDDLE name spelled out so Ive since got my DL Changed for the future......but again YMMV......thats been my experience thus far........It made me notice thought another FFL didnt even seem to care or mention it.......

 

[Beerman]

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I've worked at the Plattsburgh Runnings for over 3 years.

IT SEEMS TO BE A STOREWIDE POLICY!


We have stores in MN, ND, NY, NH, CT (etc.) And are required by Corporate to get Full name or IO (INITIAL ONLY) or NMI (No middle initial). Other local gun stores are still getting away with using middle initial.

So “IO” only applies to people who legally have a middle initial, not people with a middle name but an ID that only ha# the middle initial? Meaning he’s screwed until he gets his birth certificate or somehow gets a state ID withhis full middle name? I can’t find ATF or NYS regs that explicitly specify either way. It’s ambiguous. By intention, I’m sure.

 

[ADK_GLKr]

So “IO” only applies to people who legally have a middle initial, not people with a middle name but an ID that only ha# the middle initial? Meaning he’s screwed until he gets his birth certificate or somehow gets a state ID withhis full middle name? I can’t find ATF or NYS regs that explicitly specify either way. It’s ambiguous. By intention, I’m sure.

As mentioned earlier, If they have a NY Sporting License (hunting/fishing) they can get it revised to include their full middle name at the store’s Customer Service desk which has a DEC (Conservation Department) interface. (Proof of middle name requirement has been a bit lax) or they can BUY a temporary Sporting License (but we cannot require them to) Proof of Name and address must be some kind of Government issued ID (A letter to their home address from a City or County Agency is sufficient)

 

[Beerman]

Right from the most current FBI NICS guide for FFLs:

 

[Beerman]

 

[Beerman]

There’s no State requirement of full middle name, no mention of it in the FBI’s guide. My local state Senator says Runnings and Sportsman’s have corporate policies that seem to require it, but it’s not the legal requirement. His legal counsel said there’s no such State requirement.

 

[Acer-m14]

Right from the most current FBI NICS guide for FFLs:

View attachment 195434

it just says NAME .. so what ever is on my DL is my NAME ..

my SSN card does not have what is on birth cert for a full correct name .. LOL


for example .. SSN card says John R Doe my birth cert says Jonathan Richard Doe

like how many ways can you spell Jon John Johnny .. it like is it Dick or is it Richard LOL ..

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

I never received anything from the ATF stating any government issued ID MUST have the person's full middle name. There is nothing in the instructions on the 4473 that states that it does. When they changed the form, the added "IO" for initial only which means if someone has a legal middle name with just initial, the person has to put their initial and in parenthesis after the initial, the person has to put I.O.. I have two customers who only have an initial as their legal middle name.

 

[Willyone]

My NYS drivers license has my full middle name. If need be just head to the DMV and get the driver license renewed with the full middle name on it.