ATF "Visiting" Buyers of 80% Frames

kev74

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FYI for anyone making bulk purchases of 80% receivers.

www.ammoland.com

ATF Agents Showing Up At Homes of Unfinished 80% Gun Frame Dealers

AmmoLand News reached out to the ATF for comment on the ongoing visit. a Public Information Officer said the ATF cannot confirm or deny an investigation will not be providing any further comment.
www.ammoland.com www.ammoland.com

And as a reminder:

 
Dr. Evil

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"Public Information Officer Amanda Hill said the ATF cannot confirm or deny the existence of an investigation and will not be providing any further comment."

 
FRB

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GOPerfect said:
It nearly amazes me that people allow and invite police into their homes.

Amazing.

Sir, can we search your home?

Okay...

Mind if we search your car?

No, not at all, go ahead... I have nothing to hide!

Foolish
Click to expand...

Sounds noble to do, but too many bully cops out there to trust any to search my goods without a SW, No way....
 
SonOfSun

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Why would you let the police search your car, home, whatever?

Want to search it? Get a warrant or GFY. Oh, and while we're at it my yard is private property. I haven't called you here nor do I want you here, you don't have a warrant so I'm demanding that you leave now. Thanks, and please don't come back unless called.
 
spat

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GOPerfect said:
I am a pretty honest, upstanding member of the LE community and I would not allow me to search my home or car without a warrant.
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Why would you allow it anyway ?

If you're neighbor stopped by and said "can I come in and look around for something to file a complaint with zoning about" you'd tell him to take a hike.


There is only ever one reason a cop wants to "look around" and that's to find out if there's something to arrest you for. Even if you know there's nothing for them to find, why would you say yes ?

Merely asking is insulting you by suggesting you're a criminal.

Why are so many people in the habit of trying to win approval from people who are insulting them ?
 
dwa12479

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The agents wanted to search the owner’s house, and the owner agreed because he had nothing illegal.
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WTF is wrong with people?!?! NO, NO, NO, NO. Especially gun guys! When they come in to "search", they ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They're looking for anytning they can use against you so they're not wasting their time. Holy hell people. Gun guys ESPECIALLY should know.... No warrant, GTFO!
 
Saltwater60

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GOPerfect said:
It nearly amazes me that people allow and invite police into their homes.

Amazing.

Sir, can we search your home?

Okay...

Mind if we search your car?

No, not at all, go ahead... I have nothing to hide!

Foolish
Click to expand...
My answer where’s your warrant? No warrant then have a nice day, slam door.

Next time they came back the polymer frames would be in pieces just to piss then off.
 
Cooolone

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Taking pictures and recording serial #'s from firearms not in plain sight is a search! Warrantless no less!

But yes, of course if you don't have a ticket, you don't get in to see the show! Or as the old dry cleaners line goes:. No tickee, No shirtee...

Knock knock...
Who is it? (Shouting from behind closed door)
The ATF and Local Sheriff's Dept., may we talk to you a moment, may we come in?
WHO?
The ATF and Local Sheriff' Dept., may we come in?
Que Pasa?
The ATF and Local Sheriff' Dept., may we come in?
Wo ist das?
...
Knock, knock
...
Knock, knock
...

Turn the TV louder and go about your business... Make sure it's loud enough for them to hear outside. Lmao!

Have a nice day!
 
Acer-m14

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GOPerfect said:
It nearly amazes me that people allow and invite police into their homes.

Amazing.

Sir, can we search your home?

Okay...

Mind if we search your car?

No, not at all, go ahead... I have nothing to hide!

Foolish
Click to expand...

to add this .. stop answering questions also .. you know why i pulled you over .. where you going .. where are coming from .. shut the fk up ..
 
Jmac00

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what if the cops do have a warrant? can you demand to read the warrant BEFORE you let them in, or do the cops have to right to just blow passed you and start searching your property
 
Acer-m14

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Jmac00 said:
what if the cops do have a warrant? can you demand to read the warrant BEFORE you let them in, or do the cops have to right to just blow passed you and start searching your property
Click to expand...

Great question .. and to add .. can i call my lawyer to come read it also .. before you destroy my home ..
 
kev74

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Jmac00 said:
what if the cops do have a warrant? can you demand to read the warrant BEFORE you let them in, or do the cops have to right to just blow passed you and start searching your property
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If they have a warrant, they'll hand it to you as they walk around you. You're not required to read it and they're not required to wait for you.

If its a no-knock warrant, first they'll shoot your dog, throw a flash-bang at your kids, then proceed as above.
 
Grimscale

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spat said:
There is only ever one reason a cop wants to "look around" and that's to find out if there's something to arrest you for. Even if you know there's nothing for them to find, why would you say yes ?

Merely asking is insulting you by suggesting you're a criminal.

Why are so many people in the habit of trying to win approval from people who are insulting them ?
Click to expand...

Have you watched any of the numerous "cop" shows on TV?

People are being conditioned to believe that refusing a cop's request to "look around" and requiring a warrant is "hiding something" and are automatically guilty. so they attempt to prevent that by allowing illegal searches, and end up in worse positions.

Saltwater60 said:
Next time they came back the polymer frames would be in pieces just to piss then off.
Click to expand...

And you will be charged with destruction of evidence.

The game is rigged against the people.
 
Criticalt

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GOPerfect said:
It nearly amazes me that people allow and invite police into their homes.

Amazing.

Sir, can we search your home?

Okay...

Mind if we search your car?

No, not at all, go ahead... I have nothing to hide!

Foolish
Click to expand...
Yep, without a warrant the cops are just like any other visitor and can be asked, or demanded, to leave.
Most people believe that police are their friends and that they must obey the officers every command. An authority figure and all.
 
Saltwater60

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Grimscale said:
Have you watched any of the numerous "cop" shows on TV?

People are being conditioned to believe that refusing a cop's request to "look around" and requiring a warrant is "hiding something" and are automatically guilty. so they attempt to prevent that by allowing illegal searches, and end up in worse positions.



And you will be charged with destruction of evidence.

The game is rigged against the people.
Click to expand...
It’s not evidence at this point. It wasn’t impounded by the police or taken.
 
Paxal

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Cooolone

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There's a video out there... Been a while, went something like "why you should never, ever talk to the police"... Google it. Lolz

That said, you can talk to them, you can be nice, etc. But you don't have to surrender control to them, you don't have to submit to unlawful orders. It's all about KNOWING what you can and can't do, and what/when to do it.

You can talk but offer no information to questions. You can absolutely demand they leave your property! You don't have to let them in, you don't have to answer the door when they come. And the warrant doesn't give them the ability to break shit like on TV. You can video them inside your home, if executing the warrant, you just can't interfere with the search. You can ask questions too! And you can absolutely request they just wait two damned seconds while you read the warrant prior to their entry as you aren't going anywhere at that point. And you can absolutely then make sure they adhere to the warrant! Not too sure how many people have an attorney on speed dial, so that's always a problem. But hey... Don't forget they're just doing their job. If you did yours before they arrived, they'd have nothing to find and will leave empty handed.

So here's a question for all the legal slueths! Lol...

Warrant to enter and search premises for XXX... Lo and behold, there's a huge SAFE present but is not noted on the warrant.

Do you have to open it?

If not, how does LE secure it? May they seize it if you refuse to open it? Or would they just obtain another warrant while waiting there with you?

I hate hypothetical scenarios, buy thought to just throw that one out there ;)
 
SonOfSun

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Cooolone said:
Warrant to enter and search premises for XXX... Lo and behold, there's a huge SAFE present but is not noted on the warrant.

Do you have to open it?

If not, how does LE secure it? May they seize it if you refuse to open it? Or would they just obtain another warrant while waiting there with you?

I hate hypothetical scenarios, buy thought to just throw that one out there ;)
Click to expand...

Depends if it "makes sense" or not from my understanding. Ie. If they were looking for a stolen vehicle then searching your garage seems reasonable under a warrant. If there is a safe in the garage, well you can't really hide a car in a safe so...

Also, it depends on if the lock is keyed or combination if you are compelled to open it or not. A combination is a product of the mind so you can't be compelled to provide it, considered testimony against yourself. A key isn't a product of the mind so you can be compelled to produce it. That's my understanding anyways. Keep in mind, you not giving them the combination doesn't mean they can't cut it open if they have reasonable cause to search it.

My rule of thumb is this: if the police have the legal authority to do something, then they will just do it even if you protest; so if they are asking you for permission that is because they know they can't do it themselves without you giving them the power to do it. So, do not help the police out and make their job easier.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer so consult with one and don't necessarily take my advice.
 
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