ATF "Visiting" Buyers of 80% Frames

[libertysnake]

Depends if it "makes sense" or not from my understanding. Ie. If they were looking for a stolen vehicle then searching your garage seems reasonable under a warrant. If there is a safe in the garage, well you can't really hide a car in a safe so...

Also, it depends on if the lock is keyed or combination if you are compelled to open it or not. A combination is a product of the mind so you can't be compelled to provide it, considered testimony against yourself. A key isn't a product of the mind so you can be compelled to produce it. That's my understanding anyways. Keep in mind, you not giving them the combination doesn't mean they can't cut it open if they have reasonable cause to search it.

My rule of thumb is this: if the police have the legal authority to do something, then they will just do it even if you protest; so if they are asking you for permission that is because they know they can't do it themselves without you giving them the power to do it. So, do not help the police out and make their job easier.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer so consult with one and don't necessarily take my advice.

Simple solution like I do: keep your keys in a travel gun combo safe. Done. Now your keyed safe is considered a "product of the mind" due to the keys being in a combo safe.

 

[spat]

Yep, without a warrant the cops are just like any other visitor and can be asked, or demanded, to leave.
Most people believe that police are their friends and that they must obey the officers every command. An authority figure and all.

The real danger is that some cops think that too.

 

[spat]

There's a video out there... Been a while, went something like "why you should never, ever talk to the police"... Google it. Lolz

That said, you can talk to them, you can be nice, etc. But you don't have to surrender control to them, you don't have to submit to unlawful orders. It's all about KNOWING what you can and can't do, and what/when to do it.

You can talk but offer no information to questions. You can absolutely demand they leave your property! You don't have to let them in, you don't have to answer the door when they come. And the warrant doesn't give them the ability to break shit like on TV. You can video them inside your home, if executing the warrant, you just can't interfere with the search. You can ask questions too! And you can absolutely request they just wait two damned seconds while you read the warrant prior to their entry as you aren't going anywhere at that point. And you can absolutely then make sure they adhere to the warrant! Not too sure how many people have an attorney on speed dial, so that's always a problem. But hey... Don't forget they're just doing their job. If you did yours before they arrived, they'd have nothing to find and will leave empty handed.

So here's a question for all the legal slueths! Lol...

Warrant to enter and search premises for XXX... Lo and behold, there's a huge SAFE present but is not noted on the warrant.

Do you have to open it?

If not, how does LE secure it? May they seize it if you refuse to open it? Or would they just obtain another warrant while waiting there with you?

I hate hypothetical scenarios, buy thought to just throw that one out there

They're not *supposed* to just break shit like on TV, but the problem is that you have no recourse if they do.

If they decide to tear up the drywall looking for oil filters, they're probably out of line, but nothing will happen to them if they do it.

Best case scenario is you sue them for the damage and a judge says "yea, they can't do that. But they have immunity, so I can't award you any money, or punish them in any way either".

 

[fresch]

As per my lawyer, " they have your tax money to fight you, what do you have?".

 

[Saltwater60]

I like most cops but I’m getting more and more distrusting of them. An incident happened to my family where my son was accused of something I’m sure didn’t happen. It’s nearly impossible for it to happen. The lawyer I spoke to said get the police report. The police report was missing tons of information and factually wrong with what I said and the person reporting the incident stated. I was going to call the police and and have it corrected but the lawyer said don’t because it’s so wrong and I can prove it the judge would just laugh essentially and toss the case. He said this works in your favor. The report makes my son look guilty and it drove my wife nuts. We let it sit.

 

[Robin]

He may not need them but he wears Depends cuz they feel snuggely. Well and the warm leakage is some how weirdly comforting.
Robin
Robin

 

[Acer-m14]

And the warrant doesn't give them the ability to break shit like on TV