Ayoob on Modified Triggers

[kev74]

Here's some food for thought.

 

[MikeyCNY]

Always like hearing from Massad.. I do agree that there's such thing as "too light" for carry use.. he mentions in the video around a 4 lb limit for duty/carry - my M&P 2.0 Compact with factory trigger has about a 3.5-4 lb trigger (so I did not install any aftermarket stuff). My fullsize 2.0 wasn't as smooth, so I did install aftermarket Apex internals and flat face trigger, gives it about a 4-4.5 lb trigger pull. This is my nightstand gun, and I feel comfortable and confident with it.

I have some lighter triggers in my 10/22s but those aren't likely to be used defensively.. In the rifles I used to have I installed LaRue triggers, not too light but MUCH better than "mil-spec"..

Interesting personal story about light triggers...

Before I was born, my father worked for an armored truck company doing money pick-ups/drop-offs (not this state). He had a partner, and their protocol was for his partner to go into the business while my dad stayed in the truck. They were allowed to use POWs* (Personally Owned Weapons), and my dad had recently purchased a (used) 1911 from a pawn shop and was carrying at 3 o'clock position. While sitting in the truck it was digging into his side, so he slid it on the belt to be more appendix - suddenly it "went off", sending a .45 ACP round through his inner thigh. (I don't know if the safety was not on or it fired even with the safety engaged, dad doesn't remember)

He remains calm enough to say over the radio something like "I shot myself", but dispatch hears "armored truck driver shot" and sends half of the police force of (redacted) to him.. Aside from a bad wound that took a while to heal and a scar to this day my dad was fine. I like to joke that I almost never existed! While my dad was at the hospital, his partner had taken the 1911 to return to the vault at work, and while putting it on a shelf in the vault it went off AGAIN.. good thing he wasn't hit by a ricochet.

Taking the 1911 apart, it was found to have a SUPER light trigger/spring that the previous owner modified. Upon confronting the pawn shop my dad got a full refund. No idea what happened to the gun after that - they sold everything when they moved to NY.

* - apparently when they went to "bad neighborhoods" his partner would carry his Thompson SubMachine gun. I've met the guy and can believe it.

 

[spat]

Always like hearing from Massad.. I do agree that there's such thing as "too light" for carry use.. he mentions in the video around a 4 lb limit for duty/carry - my M&P 2.0 Compact with factory trigger has about a 3.5-4 lb trigger (so I did not install any aftermarket stuff). My fullsize 2.0 wasn't as smooth, so I did install aftermarket Apex internals and flat face trigger, gives it about a 4-4.5 lb trigger pull. This is my nightstand gun, and I feel comfortable and confident with it.

I have some lighter triggers in my 10/22s but those aren't likely to be used defensively.. In the rifles I used to have I installed LaRue triggers, not too light but MUCH better than "mil-spec"..

Interesting personal story about light triggers...

Before I was born, my father worked for an armored truck company doing money pick-ups/drop-offs (not this state). He had a partner, and their protocol was for his partner to go into the business while my dad stayed in the truck. They were allowed to use POWs* (Personally Owned Weapons), and my dad had recently purchased a (used) 1911 from a pawn shop and was carrying at 3 o'clock position. While sitting in the truck it was digging into his side, so he slid it on the belt to be more appendix - suddenly it "went off", sending a .45 ACP round through his inner thigh. (I don't know if the safety was not on or it fired even with the safety engaged, dad doesn't remember)

He remains calm enough to say over the radio something like "I shot myself", but dispatch hears "armored truck driver shot" and sends half of the police force of (redacted) to him.. Aside from a bad wound that took a while to heal and a scar to this day my dad was fine. I like to joke that I almost never existed! While my dad was at the hospital, his partner had taken the 1911 to return to the vault at work, and while putting it on a shelf in the vault it went off AGAIN.. good thing he wasn't hit by a ricochet.

Taking the 1911 apart, it was found to have a SUPER light trigger/spring that the previous owner modified. Upon confronting the pawn shop my dad got a full refund. No idea what happened to the gun after that - they sold everything when they moved to NY.

* - apparently when they went to "bad neighborhoods" his partner would carry his Thompson SubMachine gun. I've met the guy and can believe it.

He carried a gun he'd never even taken to the range
once ?

I wouldn't do that with a brand new factory gun from one of the major manufacturers. Let alone some second hand pawn shop find.

 

[MikeyCNY]

He carried a gun he'd never even taken to the range
once ?

I wouldn't do that with a brand new factory gun from one of the major manufacturers. Let alone some second hand pawn shop find.

Dunno, different time back then (70s).

Out of the box I'd probably trust an M&P and Glock - but I would definitely prefer to test first.

 

[Xae289]

I don't know about how light is too light to carry, but I definitely agree with the idea that smooth and crisp is way more important than light. I've found that I shoot way better with a butter smooth trigger, even if it's very heavy, than with a gritty or mushy trigger that happens to be light. I like to modify my triggers, but I don't like messing with springs or sear angles, just polishing friction points to a bright shine followed by cleaning and oiling.

 

[Chevusa]

Dunno, different time back then (70s).

Out of the box I'd probably trust an M&P and Glock - but I would definitely prefer to test first.

I had a brand new Glock that had the metal rod that contacts the extractor (not going to look up exact part name now) installed backwards either from the factory (which I doubt) or by someone taking it apart at the gun store. I didn’t notice it until I took it apart after a range session. The gun still worked perfectly with the part installed backwards but it just goes to show you you never know and should test and inspect everything. Glock is probably the only gun that would still work fine like that and the only brand that I would be confident carrying unfired if I had to but I would rather make sure it likes my ammo etc.

 

[spat]

Dunno, different time back then (70s).

Out of the box I'd probably trust an M&P and Glock - but I would definitely prefer to test first.

I guess, but a pawn shop gun ? How would he even be confident it would go bang when he pulled the trigger if he needed it ?

I guess you'll carry whatever you can if there aren't any other options, but even if that was my only gun, getting to the range with it would be a top priority before trusting it for carry.

That sounds like buying a used car sight unseen and planning to drive it 500 miles home without so much as checking to see if the gas gauge is working.

 

[Chevusa]

I guess, but a pawn shop gun ? How would he even be confident it would go bang when he pulled the trigger if he needed it ?

I guess you'll carry whatever you can if there aren't any other options, but even if that was my only gun, getting to the range with it would be a top priority before trusting it for carry.

That sounds like buying a used car sight unseen and planning to drive it 500 miles home without so much as checking to see if the gas gauge is working.

I’ve heard of pawn shop guns going full auto and all kinds of other shit because the previous owner was playing around with it and modifying things that should be left alone. Ideally a quality pawn show should test fire the guns before even offering them for sale. You never know where these guns have been before you and that is why I have zero interest in buying used guns, with the exception of an M1 Garand or something historic like that bought from a reputable vender.

 

[Acer-m14]

seen this a few days ago .. so now with the NYC Glock trigger so tuff shots pulled and hitting by standers ??

 

[Marine Cpl]

I do not listen to this guy anymore. He is a relic.

 

[Justincase]

I do not listen to this guy anymore. He is a relic.

Yeah, he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about at all.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Correct.

 

[misunderestimated]

Kev Thanks for sharing

Back in the 80's when I when I first got my pistol permit . I was young and thought I knew every thing, I had my Miami vice shoulder rig , My ankle holstered Colt detective special (still have that gun today ) anyways my one brother who had just became a detective in the NYPD , Gave me the "how great a responsibility" carrying a gun speach was and suggested I take a one day course offered in by Massad on the use of deadly force. I was OK cool I figured he was going to talk about tactical positions ,tactical shooting . The entire day was talking case law and different example of good people being brought through the wringer for protecting them selfs or others or a property. the class was in Ohio I think it took me a day to drive there and a day to drive back . I remember I was the only New York citizen there and he spoke of the liberal judges and prosecutors we have saying the last place you would want to be in court was in Brooklyn NY or White Plains NY.This was some 36 years go . he thought they were liberal then .That was some of the best money I ever spent on educations. Since that class I never modified a defensive gun except for sights. It also gave me a better perspective . Anyways if he had a course like that today I would take it again.As technology has changed and we all have to become careful of what and how things may be interpatated from your social media accounts if they ever had to be read in a liberal court room . When I returned I also invested in a large gun safe to secure my firearms responsible when not under my direct care to avoid that lawsuit . .

Now some 36 years latter I have ran him and his crew thru as a shooter at the GSSF Glock matches that I shoot and RO in Florida. I appreciate the mans Knowledge and have practiced what he taught me more then 3 decades ago, I told him I was in his class back in the 80's and still practiced what i learned years ago. I used to read every article he wrote back when we had gun magazines.

Again thanks for sharing I am a fan of his teachings.

 

[misunderestimated]

I do not listen to this guy anymore. He is a relic.

I can tell you ,he is just as relevant today as he was in the 80'S , and he is still saying the same thing . he stayed true to his course

 

[Podmonkey]

People can do whatever they wish to their guns of course, but honestly I think it often isn't necessary to change out triggers in pistols, not for anything outside of range or competition use. The trigger inntge Gen 5 Glocks for example is completely adequate and I have no intention of changing mine out.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Kev Thanks for sharing

Back in the 80's when I when I first got my pistol permit . I was young and thought I knew every thing, I had my Miami vice shoulder rig , My ankle holstered Colt detective special (still have that gun today ) anyways my one brother who had just became a detective in the NYPD , Gave me the "how great a responsibility" carrying a gun speach was and suggested I take a one day course offered in by Massad on the use of deadly force. I was OK cool I figured he was going to talk about tactical positions ,tactical shooting . The entire day was talking case law and different example of good people being brought through the wringer for protecting them selfs or others or a property. the class was in Ohio I think it took me a day to drive there and a day to drive back . I remember I was the only New York citizen there and he spoke of the liberal judges and prosecutors we have saying the last place you would want to be in court was in Brooklyn NY or White Plains NY.This was some 36 years go . he thought they were liberal then .That was some of the best money I ever spent on educations. Since that class I never modified a defensive gun except for sights. It also gave me a better perspective . Anyways if he had a course like that today I would take it again.As technology has changed and we all have to become careful of what and how things may be interpatated from your social media accounts if they ever had to be read in a liberal court room . When I returned I also invested in a large gun safe to secure my firearms responsible when not under my direct care to avoid that lawsuit . .

Now some 36 years latter I have ran him and his crew thru as a shooter at the GSSF Glock matches that I shoot and RO in Florida. I appreciate the mans Knowledge and have practiced what he taught me more then 3 decades ago, I told him I was in his class back in the 80's and still practiced what i learned years ago. I used to read every article he wrote back when we had gun magazines.

Again thanks for sharing I am a fan of his teachings.

I think he is teaching this class at Rochester Personal Defense later this month or next

 

[Marine Cpl]

I can tell you ,he is just as relevant today as he was in the 80'S , and he is still saying the same thing . he stayed true to his course

That’s the problem. He is saying the same thing.

 

[kev74]

That’s the problem. He is saying the same thing.

Its pretty cool that you've got all this stuff figured out. Its a shame you're not putting it to use writing or teaching or consulting or getting paid to be an expert witness, or....

 

[Marine Cpl]

My expertise or lack of it has nothing to do with anything regarding this man. But I can say this. Lot’s of his techniques are are ancient. He still teaches the crush grip from the revolver days on semi autos. He is against using single action in revolvers for self defense. He is against modifications of triggers on semi automatics despite it not being a thing in the courtroom.

He is no lawyer. I just saw a video from a real lawyer disputing some of what he says. He touts his police experience but it turns out that he was a part time cop in charge of 3 other part timers but he calls himself a Captain as if he commanded a large police force and saw a lot of action.

I do not hate the guy. Lots of what he says is spot on. Some isn’t however. He is overrated and his years of undisputed opinions from the magazine years where one couldn’t log on to such magazine and challenge what he said in such magazine is over now that the internet lives.

 

[MikeyCNY]

People can do whatever they wish to their guns of course, but honestly I think it often isn't necessary to change out triggers in pistols, not for anything outside of range or competition use. The trigger inntge Gen 5 Glocks for example is completely adequate and I have no intention of changing mine out.

I haven't owned many pistols, but I've learned I'm a trigger snob. My first pistol was a Beretta Px4, DA/SA - I hated it. Single Action was smooth but that first-round Double Action ugggghhh. Now that I have more experience I could probably get used to it, but I would not recommend it for a first pistol. 1911 triggers are usually nice, and they are in my Rugers, but a bit large for CCW in summer.

I'm currently working on upgrading the springs in my Ruger LCP Custom - it has a horrible trigger of between 6 lb 6 oz and 7 lb 9 oz. I picked up an M-Carbo kit and started installing it yesterday. I needed to order another size punch so hope to finish tomorrow.. will post an update when I do. From what I've read it shouldn't reduce the trigger pull below 4-5 lbs.

 

[repete]

That’s the problem. He is saying the same thing.

"Only listen to half of what's said and only believe half of what you hear", I more or less stopped listening to him and some other experts when I heard them talking about using reloads for self defense and how a DA would hang you for doing so. Yet he could not offer up one single case to prove his point! You would think that an expert with over 30 years experience would be able to back up his claims.