Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
No surprise there. I don’t get this no standing bullshit. Every citizen in the USA that is not a prohibited person has standing for this case.
BIG DAY! FIVE 2A Cases Challenging New York's Post Bruen Gun Control!
- Thread starter Dr. Evil
- Start date
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Doesn’t matter to me if DA’s can chose to prosecute or not it’s still an unconstitutional law on the books. These people are freaking morons. So I’m at the whim of the DA to exercise my rights? What do you think hochul will tell them when this is all over? Prosecute everyone and don’t think they won’t.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
If they don’t shot the bed on us. It doesn’t seem like they will, but yeah I don’t really trust anything anymore.
I hope they follow their own advice and take it up quickly.
maverick52
.223 Rem
The CCIA is here to stay for a long time. While we may win this at the Supreme Court level one day, it really doesn’t matter. NY and the Second Circuit will always ignore and circumvent the 2A. I’m addition - I’m done with GOA. They had the worst excuse for an attorney today. He sounded like he was out all night drinking. They won’t get another damn penny out of me. In the end- I think this was all a big waste of time.
That_FNG
.308 Win
Who needs enemies with supporters like us? Imagine if our founding fathers turned and ran after the first shot was fired? Or imagine if they all threw up their arms and gave up when the first boat of red coats arrived. Nothing has happened yet. No decisions have been made.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
one of the comments ..
Jackson N
4 hours agoI live in NY and listened to the live stream today starting with the middle of the 3rd case. I must say that our 2A lawyers were unprepared. Certainly based on what you have taught us over these many months. I couldn't believe how they stumbled at the panel's questions. I could have done a much better job answering their questions and I am FAR from being an attorney. I was a teacher and I was prepared for my class every day,. It seemed to me that the lawyers for our side did a quick review yesterday of the material and thought they could wing it. I'm with you. I'm very pessimistic we will win this one. Unlike you, I place the blame with the 2A lawyers not with judicial biases. Many of the judges' reasonable questions could have been quickly and thoroughly answered if Mark Smith had been in the room. There. I said my piece.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
They know it will get smacked down at SCOTUS, so their goal is to delay that as long as possible to maintain the infringement.
Eventually someone needs to be held in contempt or they will just keep passing blatantly unconstitutional laws every year as the old ones get struck down.
SCOTUS is in charge of the entire federal judiciary though, so if the judges on the 2nd Circuit don't at least pretend to follow the law they could get removed from the bench.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
For the record, if Mark Smith cares so much about our 2a rights and was free to listen in why wasn’t he there? Maybe he’s not a licensed attorney in NYS about I’m sure he could have advised them or whatever. I don’t know.
one of the comments ..
Jackson N
4 hours ago
I live in NY and listened to the live stream today starting with the middle of the 3rd case. I must say that our 2A lawyers were unprepared. Certainly based on what you have taught us over these many months. I couldn't believe how they stumbled at the panel's questions. I could have done a much better job answering their questions and I am FAR from being an attorney. I was a teacher and I was prepared for my class every day,. It seemed to me that the lawyers for our side did a quick review yesterday of the material and thought they could wing it. I'm with you. I'm very pessimistic we will win this one. Unlike you, I place the blame with the 2A lawyers not with judicial biases. Many of the judges' reasonable questions could have been quickly and thoroughly answered if Mark Smith had been in the room. There. I said my piece.
He does claim that he has a lot of experience with the 2nd, but I all believe he is based in Washington DC
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
You can fly into NYC in the morning and fly out the same night for a few hundred bucks. He seems to be well versed and well spoken. I’m sure he commands a high price but it’s very possible to fly in and fly out easily. Again I don’t know if he can practice in NYS or what the rules are if he could sit side chair or in an advisory role or now but if this lawyer was as bad as others say we need to do something.
One more quickly note- considering his status, knowledge and experience, I would also believe he would be very expensive. He claims to be a capable of arguing in front of SCOTUS, but that wouldn't help if not licensed in NY.
@Saltwater60. Upon further review, he may very well be licensed in NY as his firm practices in NY. I will look a bit further. To add, he has argued in front of the SCOTUS.
maverick52
.223 Rem
I’ve thought the same thing. After seeing the spectacle yesterday maybe his followers can push him to do so. I’m pissed beucaee I donated a lot to GOA as did all of us. And we get an ass like that ? Wow
maverick52
.223 Rem
In a cause like this with so much at stake what is money?
I tuned in and listened to the entire hearing. IMHO, it was much as I predicted, if not worse. A complete and total shit show. I have attended enough depositions, court hearings, and trials to know a kangaroo court shit show when I see or hear it. Call me disgusted. Completely.
And I find it reprehensible that each case essentially ended up being argued by both parties for a total of 20-25 minutes for the attorneys on both sides! WTF is that? The Judges on the bench, Lynch in particular, kept interrupting the attorneys and wasting their allotted time to make their arguments. And our attorneys were beyond embarrassing. NY's attorney kept attacking standing. None of our attorney's did a good job of even making the arguments using Bruen's salient points to effectively attack NY. Just fucking pitiful.
I am absolutely grateful that I am out, having moved to NC, and now to SC, where we are not dealing with ANY of that shit.
And I find it reprehensible that each case essentially ended up being argued by both parties for a total of 20-25 minutes for the attorneys on both sides! WTF is that? The Judges on the bench, Lynch in particular, kept interrupting the attorneys and wasting their allotted time to make their arguments. And our attorneys were beyond embarrassing. NY's attorney kept attacking standing. None of our attorney's did a good job of even making the arguments using Bruen's salient points to effectively attack NY. Just fucking pitiful.
I am absolutely grateful that I am out, having moved to NC, and now to SC, where we are not dealing with ANY of that shit.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Mark W. Smith - a New York, New York (NY) Litigation & Appeals Lawyer
Mark W. Smith, a New York, New York (NY) Lawyer, Attorney - Litigation & Appeals
lawyers.findlaw.com
Mark W. Smith - New York, NY
75 Rockefeller Plaza21st FloorNew York, NY 10019Smith Valliere PLLC
Mark mentioned in one of his videos due to his tube channel he can not present 2a to the court no idea if true?
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Just a thought, losing here may be better then winning. We win the State goes for an En Banc hearing (more stalling!!) We lose we apply to the SCOTUS who's ruling then affects all States which saves time and money for the pro-2A side nation wide...
JMHO!!!
JMHO!!!
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Lawyers don't get to represent people in ongoing cases just because they have a YouTube channel and appear to be well spoken.
The lawyer's who argued on behalf of the plaintiffs yesterday were hired by the plaintiffs and the organizations funding their representation. Other lawyers don't get to jump in just because the case seems interesting.
The lawyer's who argued on behalf of the plaintiffs yesterday were hired by the plaintiffs and the organizations funding their representation. Other lawyers don't get to jump in just because the case seems interesting.
Why would that have any bearing on his ability to litigate?
Depick
.308 Win
He probably sent the B team because like the rest of us he knows what the outcome will be.
Nothing preventing him for representing the plaintiff's pro Bono in his own backyard. If he truly is a giant pro 2a attorney it would have been extremely beneficial to him and his practice
Like I said no Idea he was interviewing someone in a video made a statement if he were the litigator he would not be able to have the channel. I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a holiday inn express last night. Maybe one of the Lawyers on here can explain to us the reasoning behind this???
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Nothing preventing that except...
-That's not how the system works, and...
-The plaintiffs already had representation that they presumably are happy with, and...
-A popular post game analysis youtube channel doesn't necessarily translate to successfully arguing a case.
To quote Dirty Harry, " A man's got to know his limitations."
John Stark
.44 mag
Hope you're not holding your breath on that.
John Stark
.44 mag
Huh? When the three judge panel gives NY a win in the bulk of the arguments in these cases (I expect there will be a few minors scraps thrown to RKBA supporters), the next logicial step will be for the plaintiffs to seek an En Banc hearing.
Yes, there is a route to go directly to the Supremes, but there is no guarantee that will happen despite statements made by certain justices to that effect. Its very likely the Supremes would send the plaintiffs back for a full 2nd Circuit En Banc heariing in their vain and pathetic attempt to "reign in the lower courts" and "make them follow SCOTUS precedent."
What we have here in the face of withering litigation (all based on Heller, McDonald, and Bruen) in ongoing cases in all of the tyrannical states that Infringe the 2A, is the Court observing the "proprieties" and "niceties" of the legal/lawyer/jurisprudence industrial complex, while the Rights of Americans are violated, cancelled, and held in limbo indefinitely. With very real and terrible consequences for those arrested.
Once the 3 judge panel is done wasting months and months issuing their "opinions," this is going En Banc so that NY gets more breathing room for another year or two.
How many times do we need to see this same shit show, eh Charlie Brown? Lucy wants to know if its time to tee up the football again.
Famous last words from plaintiff attorneys pleading to the Supremes: "We think they are going to take our case soon, and we're going to win on the merits."
As the famous Chinese philosopher Knead Sum Dough once said:
"Cha Ching!"
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Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
the founding fathers would have been stacking bodies by now,
maverick52
.223 Rem
That’s a good way to look at it.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Recordings can be found here.
Look under oral arguments recordings.
United States Court of Appeals 2nd Circuit
www.ca2.uscourts.gov
Oral Arguments
www.ca2.uscourts.gov
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Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
So you loose first amendment rights if you argue court cases? Makes no sense.