Can someone explain the specifics of shotgun capacity under the mess of laws?

[webform]

I tried searching (here and all over the web) to find an answer but what I seem to get are half answers and contradictory answers. I also asked a local FFL (who said anything less than 10 is ok) but want a second opinion.

I recently relocated to upstate NY (west side). Having been a Michigan resident for the rest of my life the laws here shocked and disappointed me, but I'm figuring out how to work within them based on google, support from others, and a local FFL that helps me with my guns.

I'm looking at purchasing a couple new shotguns for 3 gun, a semi for regular and a pump for heavy. What I don't understand is what magazine tube capacity I can have for them. From what I've read, I have the following statements / questions I'd like your confirmation / explanation of. Appreciate it!!

1) detachable magazines on semi autos are not ok in any size. Perfectly fine for pumps though.
2) semi autos with tubes > 7 are illegal (or is it 10 because of the 10 vs 7 that was struck down)?
3) pumps with tubes > 10 are illegal (or is it unlimited because it's a tube and not a magazine)?
4) when they count shell capacity (7, 10, 5, whatever) I assume are they counting with 2.75" shells like the federal bird hunting law does?

Thanks in advance!

 

[freddy]

Just get a drum-fed full auto shotty and be done with it.

 

[Acer-m14]

I think the rule for shotguns is limited for hunting ( DEC Laws ) for just shooting load that puppy up with 20 rounds if a pump ..
Semi ...
FUAC hosed us all on 3gun fun .. its either 7 or 10 but no one really knows .. but the laws seam to get ignored for the LIBERALS ..

 

[Jem45472]

The laws here suck, I can tell you a dp12 is legal here, and has two 7 round Tubes for a total of 14.

 

[webform]

The laws here suck, I can tell you a dp12 is legal here, and has two 7 round Tubes for a total of 14.

was looking at that one too - the fact you can fire 2 rounds without a pump doesn't make it a semi right? That would be my concern on that one.

 

[Acer-m14]

http://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/archive/assets/documents/safeactfaq.pdf

 

[webform]

http://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/archive/assets/documents/safeactfaq.pdf

yep, read that. The problem being it references the 7 round magazines as not being legal to purchase in NYS, which is outdated, so I can't believe anything in that document, other than as "this was true at some point in the past"

 

[Jem45472]

was looking at that one too - the fact you can fire 2 rounds without a pump doesn't make it a semi right? That would be my concern on that one.

No, all the shops sell them. I really want one, but a little pricey for me.

 

[spat]

was looking at that one too - the fact you can fire 2 rounds without a pump doesn't make it a semi right? That would be my concern on that one.

Semi is about *how* it gets reloaded. I.e. does the energy to reload it come from firing the last round.

A double barrel break action is not semi just because you can fire twice without reloading.

 

[spat]

Magaz

I think the rule for shotguns is limited for hunting ( DEC Laws ) for just shooting load that puppy up with 20 rounds if a pump ..
Semi ...
FUAC hosed us all on 3gun fun .. its either 7 or 10 but no one really knows .. but the laws seam to get ignored for the LIBERALS ..

It is the 10+ rnd magazine that is illegal, doesn't matter if it goes in a semi or not. Doesn't even matter if it's detachable or not, only that it feeds rounds into the chamber.

 

[Phauxtoe]

My head hurts from this

 

[Marine Cpl]

All laws referenced are taken from Penal Law 265 below.

Article 265 Penal Law Firearms | Dangerous Weapons | NY Law

The law is up to 10 rounds in magazines.

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, that
(a) has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition,

A shotgun tube is still a magazine. It is a fixed magazine. It is an ammunition feeding device. These are limited to 10 rounds just like any other ammunition feeding device. However, that is not the case in a semi automatic shotgun. Those are limited to no more than 7 rounds. They are limited to no more than 7 rounds not because the magazine would be a large capacity ammunition feeding device (That was struck down by 2 judges.), but rather because a semi automatic shotgun with more than 7 rounds is considered an assault weapon. 10 rounds is still legal in a pump shotgun because a pump shotgun is not an assault weapon. The 7 round limit was NOT struck down by those 2 judges in regards to characteristics pertaining to what makes an Assault Weapons.

22. "Assault weapon" means

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;

 

[cgrutt]

To add to above (and confusion) semi auto shotgun with 6 to 7 rounds and collapsable stock is still considered an assault weapon under NY law but there is an exemption for 5 or less rounds. So for example Benelli M4 with collapsible stock and 5 round tube is good to go as is the same Benelli with fixed stock and 7 round tube. Both configurations actually provide up to 2 additional rounds with one in chamber and ghost loading one on carrier plate. Welcome to NY.

 

[Marine Cpl]

To add to above (and confusion) semi auto shotgun with 6 to 7 rounds and collapsable stock is still considered an assault weapon under NY law but there is an exemption for 5 or less rounds. So for example Benelli M4 with collapsible stock and 5 round tube is good to go as is the same Benelli with fixed stock and 7 round tube. Both configurations actually provide up to 2 additional rounds with one in chamber and ghost loading one on carrier plate. Welcome to NY.

I did not know that. Thanks for that. I looked it up. Looks like you can indeed have a semi auto shotgun with features as long as the magazine is 5 rounds or less.

Here it is in Penal Law 265.

(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:

(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;

(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;

 

[Jem45472]

This thread brings back the same frustrated feelings I had when safe was passed.

 

[Acer-m14]

Magaz

It is the 10+ rnd magazine that is illegal, doesn't matter if it goes in a semi or not. Doesn't even matter if it's detachable or not, only that it feeds rounds into the chamber.

22. "Assault weapon" means

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;

i don't see Pump shotgun listed in that above ??? ..

 

[Marine Cpl]

i don't see Pump shotgun listed in that above ??? ..

A pump can never be an Assault Weapon.

 

[Acer-m14]

@Willjr75 same thinking like i said in my post load that pump up with 20 lol ..

like my moss 500 pump can take 7 2 3/4 shells .. legal ... but if i use mini shells oh crap .. FUAC LOL ..

its all semi .. but i can't have 15 mini shells in the pump hunting fowl .. that's DEC law ..

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Willjr75 same thinking like i said in my post load that pump up with 20 lol ..

like my moss 500 pump can take 7 2 3/4 shells .. legal ... but if i use mini shells oh crap .. FUAC LOL ..

its all semi .. but i can't have 15 mini shells in the pump hunting fowl .. that's DEC law ..

Once you do that, you'll turn your legal fixed magazine designed to accept 2 3/4 shells into a "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device." It wasn't designed to use those.

 

[spat]

i don't see Pump shotgun listed in that above ??? ..

because its not there, its under

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
drum, feed strip, or similar device, that (a) has a capacity of, or that
can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of
ammunition

it doesn't care if its fixed or not, or if it goes in a semi or not.

 

[Jem45472]

A pump can never be an Assault Weapon.

Yeah right, give it some time.

 

[Glenn B]

A pump can never be an Assault Weapon.

Don't bet on it. When that arsehat in Albany, or any politician anywhere, again gets their leftist cronies to change the law they can classify whatever they want as an assault weapon. A Charter Arms Explorer II, the original jam-o-matic, is now considered an assault weapon. Go figure! If they have the votes, after the next Sandy Hook or Virginia Tech or Columbine, they will try and quite possibly succeed to make the gun laws more restrictive and legislate many other weapons into assault weapons.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I know. I was just commenting on how the existing law is written.

(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that
(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action;
(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
(C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.