Can this man claim self defense?

[Cureforcancer]

“Mano and another man, later identified as Thomas, talked for about two minutes before Mano pulled a large gun out of his pants, according to surveillance footage. An incident report identified the gun as a TEC-9 semiautomatic pistol”

“Mano slipped it back in his waistband, and the two talked for a little while longer before Thomas pulled out a gun and started shooting.”


This was over a cell phone. The shooter had a stolen weapon but lets put that aside for now.

Can the shooter claim self defense?
Imo YES!!.

 

[Airborneguy]

Definitely not. He had plenty of opportunity to leave. Won’t stand up.

There was an interesting case in Newburgh a few years ago where the shooter was a straight up perp who came up behind a guy holding a gun to his brother. He wasn’t charged. The gun he used was never recovered.

 

[Cureforcancer]

Definitely not. He had plenty of opportunity to leave. Won’t stand up.

There was an interesting case in Newburgh a few years ago where the shooter was a straight up perp who came up behind a guy holding a gun to his brother. He wasn’t charged. The gun he used was never recovered.

Explain AB. The victim brandished his weapon first in a menacing manor. The shooter seemed intimidated until the victim stuck it down his pants.

 

[Airborneguy]

He put it back though and the eventual shooter made no move to leave for quite awhile. He was what we’d call and active participant and then became the primary aggressor. I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion. Depends on where this happened also.

 

[Cureforcancer]

He put it back though and the eventual shooter made no move to leave for quite awhile. He was what we’d call and active participant and then became the primary aggressor. I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion. Depends on where this happened also.

Gotcha. The above happened in GA.

 

[Cooolone]

Well, don't pull it if you don't plan to use it!

Like where the fuck was he keeping that thing with the 30 round mag? Simply amazing!

Self defense? I don't think so... Not for a moment! Doesn't matter the other guy was armed, he disengaged and put the weapon back in his pants. As crazy as that sounds, the eventual attacker could have walked away right then and there. He stayed and became the aggressor. Looks like murder to me!

 

[Acer-m14]

both are thugs .. who cares lock them both up or let them shoot it out ..

 

[GOPerfect]

I'm with AB on this one. After the first mutt put the gun away, the other scum had the opportunity to leave, or at least attempt to leave. He choose to stay in the area and "discuss" this issue a bit longer. A prosecutor may even argue that the second turd stayed looking for an opportunity to pull his gun on turd #1.

Must have ben a very small caliber that turd 2 used, he hit turd one and it seems like it did very little damage. Carry Hollow points!

 

[libertysnake]

He put it back though and the eventual shooter made no move to leave for quite awhile. He was what we’d call and active participant and then became the primary aggressor. I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion. Depends on where this happened also.

Going to have to agree with Airborne on this one. If he was actively backing up and trying to leave the scene, and the guy with the blue backpack was following him after brandishing a firearm, then the shooter would've had grounds to maybe draw his weapon if he felt he could not outrun the guy. And, given the guy just brandished a Tech-9, he'd have good cause to feel his life was in danger if he was trying to leave and couldn't.

That being said, when the guy in the blue backpack drew his firearm, that alone would be grounds for the guy in red to probably draw on him when he got the chance. If someone starts brandishing a weapon towards you in an argument, that's plenty of reason to think they're considering taking your life.

Still, this guy didn't fire on him when the Tech-9 was out. He did it when it was away and not a threat. He also ran after guy. All those things point to this being about vengeance, and not so much self defense.

 

[Acer-m14]

I'm sure both @Airborneguy and @GOPerfect would say both mutts all ready have felonies and can't have guns to begin with lol ..

 

[libertysnake]

I'm sure both @Airborneguy and @GOPerfect would say both mutts all ready have felonies and can't have guns to begin with lol ..

Well, these guys don't exactly seem like a bunch of rocket scientists getting into a shootout in the middle of a gas station. I'll say that much.

 

[Acer-m14]

@libertysnake what would have been epic if both showed there gun then turned and walked 20 paces and then both shot .. LOL

 

[spat]

I'm with @Airborneguy and @GOPerfect on this one. No justification.

When the first guy pulled the tec 9 he was a threat and could probably have been justifiably shot right then, but as soon as it got put away, so did the justification.
This guys only hope would be to claim he thought the guy was reaching for it again, but that's quite a stretch here.

Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, but I might end up being a juror, and they are the ones who really count

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm with AB on this one. After the first mutt put the gun away, the other scum had the opportunity to leave, or at least attempt to leave. He choose to stay in the area and "discuss" this issue a bit longer. A prosecutor may even argue that the second turd stayed looking for an opportunity to pull his gun on turd #1.

Must have ben a very small caliber that turd 2 used, he hit turd one and it seems like it did very little damage. Carry Hollow points!

Word on the street was that it was an XDS .45 ACP.

 

[Doc8404]

Hahaha. Shoulda had a 9

 

[Grimscale]

the whole thing is moot.
You cannot claim 'self defense' while in the commission of a crime.
And, if everything else were legal, we wouldn't be here because these two punks wouldn't be arguing about stolen cell phones and brandishing stolen firearms.

too bad it wasn't mutually assured destruction. Missed opportunity there.

 

[Airborneguy]

I'm sure both @Airborneguy and @GOPerfect would say both mutts all ready have felonies and can't have guns to begin with lol ..

Probably do.

 

[Airborneguy]

the whole thing is moot.
You cannot claim 'self defense' while in the commission of a crime.
And, if everything else were legal, we wouldn't be here because these two punks wouldn't be arguing about stolen cell phones and brandishing stolen firearms.

too bad it wasn't mutually assured destruction. Missed opportunity there.

If his only crime was carrying a gun illegally, he could claim self-defense. Like I said above, it happened here in Newburgh a few years back and I know of another case in Brooklyn. Even perps have the right to self-defense, but the elements still have to be met. This situation doesn’t appear to meet that for me.

 

[SomeSoldier]

I would have to ask what state is this in, because "stand your ground law". Also we don't know what was said. If initial aggressor said, if you walk away from me I am going to shoot you, so the 2nd party stayed. Then later the aggressor said now I am going to kill you. 2nd party would be right to shoot.

After watching the video, the initial aggressor didn't stop being aggressive after he put the gun away, soo. He was still the aggressor.

 

[Cureforcancer]

If his only crime was carrying a gun illegally, he could claim self-defense. Like I said above, it happened here in Newburgh a few years back and I know of another case in Brooklyn. Even perps have the right to self-defense, but the elements still have to be met. This situation doesn’t appear to meet that for me.

AB. I see where you are coming from. Do you have any links to the cases you mentioned ? Or they never made the paper ? I am not challenging your opinion.
Just trying to learn.

 

[since2004]

It looks like an altercation innitiated by the victim where he brandished a weapon. If the shooter can articulate a necessity to fire on his victim i can see this being justified. We see video of the victim practically pulling a burner out of thin air like davidfuckingcopperfield, a little menacing audio right before he leveled his first shot wouldn't hurt the case for self defense.

 

[Airborneguy]

AB. I see where you are coming from. Do you have any links to the cases you mentioned ? Or they never made the paper ? I am not challenging your opinion.
Just trying to learn.

Brooklyn:

Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder

I can’t find the Newburgh story. Searched every key word I can think of. Not coming up.

 

[Saltwater60]

Well, don't pull it if you don't plan to use it!

Like where the fuck was he keeping that thing with the 30 round mag? Simply amazing!

Self defense? I don't think so... Not for a moment! Doesn't matter the other guy was armed, he disengaged and put the weapon back in his pants. As crazy as that sounds, the eventual attacker could have walked away right then and there. He stayed and became the aggressor. Looks like murder to me!

Or when he up and walked away the other guy could have shot him in the back. We have no idea what was being said. The shooter could have been told if you leave I'll kill you.

I do agree in the end that this was probably gang theft related and he should have started to back away. He will likely be charged with murder depending on Georgia law. Good one to post up. If the other guy made a move towards waistline or pocket then shoot. He even could have had his hand on his gun. It's hard though because he could have felt threatened by what the other guy was saying. They will never get a murder conviction. If he has a descent defense attorney and it goes to court he'd likely get out of it. They will try to plea it down to prevent it from going to court. I see aggregated assault and maybe a few years in jail.

 

[eagleridge357]

AG, Goper and Coool. Have it right. Read Andy Brancas book the law of self defense. Threat was withdrawn and the shooter then became an aggressor

 

[Pale Rider]

AG, Goper and Coool. Have it right. Read Andy Brancas book the law of self defense. Threat was withdrawn and the shooter then became an aggressor

Just because the gun was put away, that doesn't mean that the threat was withdrawn. The shooter undoubtedly still had ample reason to fear for his life.