Class Review: Defensive shotgun

[Curmudgeon]

Drove out from the other end of the state to take defensive shotgun with @OnSight Firearms Training at Blue Mountain today.

I'm exhausted, sore and smiling. I have a ton of shit to work on.

Today was experiment day. From hand loads, to side saddles, Streamlight TI racker, ammo carry, etc.

Ben is a great teacher. Everyone had a great attitude and I got exactly what I came for: stress and reps feeding the machine.

So worth the money, the drive and the kick ass airbnb in Yorktown heights. (Options were limited).

My handloads sucked, my aim was worse, the Streamlight TI racker turned on every time I shot, and my kydex shell holders ripped my leg up when I went to a kneel.

Training is where you you figure shit out and learn where you need to put in work.

Please do that.

Thanks Ben!

 

[Defilade]

Drove out from the other end of the state to take defensive shotgun with @OnSight Firearms Training at Blue Mountain today.

I'm exhausted, sore and smiling. I have a ton of shit to work on.

Today was experiment day. From hand loads, to side saddles, Streamlight TI racker, ammo carry, etc.

Ben is a great teacher. Everyone had a great attitude and I got exactly what I came for: stress and reps feeding the machine.

So worth the money, the drive and the kick ass airbnb in Yorktown heights. (Options were limited).

My handloads sucked, my aim was worse, the Streamlight TI racker turned on every time I shot, and my kydex shell holders ripped my leg up when I went to a kneel.

Training is where you you figure shit out and learn where you need to put in work.

Please do that.

Thanks Ben!

Pump OR Semi?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Mossberg 500 pump.

 

[Redshirt]

Having done the class, what shell holder would you recommend or not recommend?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Having done the class, what shell holder would you recommend or not recommend?

For the class? Or for home defense?

For the class a good ole fashioned dump pouch works fine. However in a home defense situation you have to realize that strapping on a belt and a pouch might not be practical and you might have to go with what's on or in the gun. My safariland paddle 4 shell holders didn't cut it in class and my side saddle impacted my ability to index on the receiver to the point where my trigger finger wasn't always in the best place (lefty). Esstac cards might be a better answer for me. At home, one of those bandoleers might be easily thrown over your shoulder and give you what you need.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

Drove out from the other end of the state to take defensive shotgun with @OnSight Firearms Training at Blue Mountain today.

I'm exhausted, sore and smiling. I have a ton of shit to work on.

Today was experiment day. From hand loads, to side saddles, Streamlight TI racker, ammo carry, etc.

Ben is a great teacher. Everyone had a great attitude and I got exactly what I came for: stress and reps feeding the machine.

So worth the money, the drive and the kick ass airbnb in Yorktown heights. (Options were limited).

My handloads sucked, my aim was worse, the Streamlight TI racker turned on every time I shot, and my kydex shell holders ripped my leg up when I went to a kneel.

Training is where you you figure shit out and learn where you need to put in work.

Please do that.

Thanks Ben!

Thanks for the review!!
Great to see you again, thankfully this time there was no horse shit!
Did you make it to Peekskill Brewery?

 

[JackNeat]

(Edit : I just looked at my post.. geez Wall of text incoming... )

TLDR version. The class rocks and if you like shooting your shotgun and learning how to shoot with a defensive mindset.. take Ben’s class.




This was my 3rd Defensive Shotgun class with Ben and just as I have done at the end of the a previous class day when I get home... pour a Knob 100 proof and sign up for the next available class and order more ammo!

This class has become something I just make part of my schedule. Each class starts off with safety and medical briefings and what the script will be in the event of a training accident - which is unlikely given the focus on safety. For someone that hasn’t taken a class though, it will put them at ease knowing how serious Ben is about safety being the top priority on the day. I know my first class jitters were greatly reduced when I realized how professional the attitude was.

There are a number of points we address through the day from starting off with dry fire and progressing from there. Those of us that have taken the class before all seem fine with the methodical approach where we cover the fundamentals. Anyone that thinks they are above reviewing the fundamentals doesn’t have the right mindset IMO.

It didn’t take long before we were off to the races. Most of the drills are designed to develop your high level motor skills of tactical/combat reloads of your shotgun since the main downside of a shotgun is the limitation of ammo the weapon can hold. Ben will then start to introduce bringing in gross motor skills to the drills with starting positions that don’t have you directly facing your target or firing a string of shots in different stances called out before the drill starts. All through the day the point is hammered home that you keep feeding your shotgun during these drills and address any malfunctions you encounter - A key point I want to mention is that nobody is ever made to feel like they have to perform faster than they are comfortable with. Each student would safely operate their shotgun to the drills completion. If they could push themselves they did but nobody ever felt compelled to push themselves beyond their ability to safely do so.

My favorite part of the day though came when we ran the movement drill which put everything together we were working on during the earlier part of the day. 6 of us line up and each person has a spotter behind them. The spotters job was to make sure the shooters stayed in line with the other shooters on their flanks ( safety obviously ). We were given a quick rundown on the commands we could be given which would include movement calls of forward / reverse, stance positions we may have to take which could require squat, one of several kneeling positions, sitting or prone... yes, you can shoot a shotgun prone - especially if your life depends on it so you need to practice it. At no point during the drill are you to stop moving unless a stance is assumed and you stay in that stance until the command is changed. During all this the FIGHT command will be given which is your queue to engage the paper target in front of you. The drill is designed to put you under stress and test your ability to handle concentration on the command and maintain control of your high and gross level motor skills. It sounds easy but it tests you more than you might realize just reading that. We ran this drill at my first class in May and I honestly felt like a bumbling idiot about half-way through the drill when you realize you forgot how many shells you fired and that you didn’t feed the shotgun or you short stroked your action and you have to clear a jammed shell while Ben is asking you what the hell you are doing while still calling out commands you need to follow... then you panic a bit because you are feeling that gentle tug of you spotter because you are falling behind. It quickly makes you appreciate that you need to work on every aspect of operating the shotgun. This time I felt ready for the drill because I have spent time practicing my tactical reloads and moving around at the same time ( dry fire practice with inert shells ). It was still stressful and my reloading fell out of sync a few times but overall I felt so much more confident this time around. It was validation that the work I have put in was paying off and it’s made me look forward to another shot at running that drill and improving on my performance again.

There were some plywood barriers there that I noticed but we didn’t get to them at this class. So I’ll be looking forward to hopefully seeing them in November and getting to run whatever drills Ben has designed for us. If we don’t get to them that will be ok also because there are still plenty of areas I want to continue improving on. When it comes down to it... I don’t think there is anything negative I could think of about the class. You get to run your shotgun and run it hard. The shotgun is a violent weapon and you take this class because you enjoy the physical level of involvement the shotgun demands from you. I could run this class every week and enjoy the crap out of it. If you show up at a Blue Ridge Sportsman Defensive Shotgun class with @OnSight Firearms Training, I’ll see you there with a smile on my face all day long.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks for the review!!
Great to see you again, thankfully this time there was no horse shit!
Did you make it to Peekskill Brewery?

Nope. They closed at 6 and I didn't want to rush it. Wound up at some dive in Yorktown Heights and had a decent burger and a couple frosty ones.

 

[Curmudgeon]

(Edit : I just looked at my post.. geez Wall of text incoming... )

TLDR version. The class rocks and if you like shooting your shotgun and learning how to shoot with a defensive mindset.. take Ben’s class.




This was my 3rd Defensive Shotgun class with Ben and just as I have done at the end of the a previous class day when I get home... pour a Knob 100 proof and sign up for the next available class and order more ammo!

This class has become something I just make part of my schedule. Each class starts off with safety and medical briefings and what the script will be in the event of a training accident - which is unlikely given the focus on safety. For someone that hasn’t taken a class though, it will put them at ease knowing how serious Ben is about safety being the top priority on the day. I know my first class jitters were greatly reduced when I realized how professional the attitude was.

There are a number of points we address through the day from starting off with dry fire and progressing from there. Those of us that have taken the class before all seem fine with the methodical approach where we cover the fundamentals. Anyone that thinks they are above reviewing the fundamentals doesn’t have the right mindset IMO.

It didn’t take long before we were off to the races. Most of the drills are designed to develop your high level motor skills of tactical/combat reloads of your shotgun since the main downside of a shotgun is the limitation of ammo the weapon can hold. Ben will then start to introduce bringing in gross motor skills to the drills with starting positions that don’t have you directly facing your target or firing a string of shots in different stances called out before the drill starts. All through the day the point is hammered home that you keep feeding your shotgun during these drills and address any malfunctions you encounter - A key point I want to mention is that nobody is ever made to feel like they have to perform faster than they are comfortable with. Each student would safely operate their shotgun to the drills completion. If they could push themselves they did but nobody ever felt compelled to push themselves beyond their ability to safely do so.

My favorite part of the day though came when we ran the movement drill which put everything together we were working on during the earlier part of the day. 6 of us line up and each person has a spotter behind them. The spotters job was to make sure the shooters stayed in line with the other shooters on their flanks ( safety obviously ). We were given a quick rundown on the commands we could be given which would include movement calls of forward / reverse, stance positions we may have to take which could require squat, one of several kneeling positions, sitting or prone... yes, you can shoot a shotgun prone - especially if your life depends on it so you need to practice it. At no point during the drill are you to stop moving unless a stance is assumed and you stay in that stance until the command is changed. During all this the FIGHT command will be given which is your queue to engage the paper target in front of you. The drill is designed to put you under stress and test your ability to handle concentration on the command and maintain control of your high and gross level motor skills. It sounds easy but it tests you more than you might realize just reading that. We ran this drill at my first class in May and I honestly felt like a bumbling idiot about half-way through the drill when you realize you forgot how many shells you fired and that you didn’t feed the shotgun or you short stroked your action and you have to clear a jammed shell while Ben is asking you what the hell you are doing while still calling out commands you need to follow... then you panic a bit because you are feeling that gentle tug of you spotter because you are falling behind. It quickly makes you appreciate that you need to work on every aspect of operating the shotgun. This time I felt ready for the drill because I have spent time practicing my tactical reloads and moving around at the same time ( dry fire practice with inert shells ). It was still stressful and my reloading fell out of sync a few times but overall I felt so much more confident this time around. It was validation that the work I have put in was paying off and it’s made me look forward to another shot at running that drill and improving on my performance again.

There were some plywood barriers there that I noticed but we didn’t get to them at this class. So I’ll be looking forward to hopefully seeing them in November and getting to run whatever drills Ben has designed for us. If we don’t get to them that will be ok also because there are still plenty of areas I want to continue improving on. When it comes down to it... I don’t think there is anything negative I could think of about the class. You get to run your shotgun and run it hard. The shotgun is a violent weapon and you take this class because you enjoy the physical level of involvement the shotgun demands from you. I could run this class every week and enjoy the crap out of it. If you show up at a Blue Ridge Sportsman Defensive Shotgun class with @OnSight Firearms Training, I’ll see you there with a smile on my face all day long.

Were you on the right side of the firing line or the left?

 

[JackNeat]

Were you on the right side of the firing line or the left?

Not sure... if you mean when we split up and ran the drill with left side vs right side? I was the last one on the left side. John... I had the green chest rig on if that helps you... Andy right? Had the stream light and last class with Ben you guys were in horse shit... lol.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Not sure... if you mean when we split up and ran the drill with left side vs right side? I was the last one on the left side. John... I had the green chest rig on if that helps you... Andy right? Had the stream light and last class with Ben you guys were in horse shit... lol.

Yep. I remember the chest rig. My light was always on. One issue I need to solve..

 

[GOPerfect]

Glad you guys had a good time and happier that you were able to learn.

I am so thankful that I have received as much training in life that I have.

I have had the opportunity of training with some of the best instructors.

Training is an amazing thing. Continue to train as much as possible.

 

[JackNeat]

Glad you guys had a good time and happier that you were able to learn.

I am so thankful that I have received as much training in life that I have.

I have had the opportunity of training with some of the best instructors.

Training is an amazing thing. Continue to train as much as possible.

I love getting some training. If Ammo was cheaper I would try to take a class at least every month. I always have something booked though so there is a date I know training is coming and I want to keep working to be better for that next class.

I wish I had property to live fire practice on my own... better that I don’t though because I can only imagine how much that would cost me in Ammo right now.

 

[JackNeat]

For the class? Or for home defense?

For the class a good ole fashioned dump pouch works fine. However in a home defense situation you have to realize that strapping on a belt and a pouch might not be practical and you might have to go with what's on or in the gun. My safariland paddle 4 shell holders didn't cut it in class and my side saddle impacted my ability to index on the receiver to the point where my trigger finger wasn't always in the best place (lefty). Esstac cards might be a better answer for me. At home, one of those bandoleers might be easily thrown over your shoulder and give you what you need.

This time around that chest rig I wore was new for me. It worked really well honestly. It is actually easy enough to put on in a hurry If you keep it stages near your shotgun or carbine. I also tested out a new shell carrier on that rig. It was pricey ( around $85 ) but I felt it was very solid and it was first time I used it so it’s a keeper and will stay on the rig. The rig was a cheap Condor with enough Molle to Carry the basics. The shell holder hold 8 and its adjustable for orientation on a belt or rig. I ordered mine with the Molle attachment option. Came from gunnersolutions.com

 

[GOPerfect]

I love getting some training. If Ammo was cheaper I would try to take a class at least every month. I always have something booked though so there is a date I know training is coming and I want to keep working to be better for that next class.

I wish I had property to live fire practice on my own... better that I don’t though because I can only imagine how much that would cost me in Ammo right now.

I love owning land away from the world. Having the property, I can set up nearly any scenario that I would like. We do shooting while driving, running around the woods, all different types of training. I am a big fan of mounted shooting. Each day, I get a bit better at it.

A decent group of us train together, it is fun and very rewarding, and yes, we go through a lot of ammo. Sometimes it hurts how much we expend.

 

[repete]

I love owning land away from the world. Having the property, I can set up nearly any scenario that I would like. We do shooting while driving, running around the woods, all different types of training. I am a big fan of mounted shooting. Each day, I get a bit better at it.

A decent group of us train together, it is fun and very rewarding, and yes, we go through a lot of ammo. Sometimes it hurts how much we expend.

Driving? That would be interesting, love to try that but I can just barely get a small truck down into the ravine that's my range.
That shotgun course sounds fun but not for me anymore, I kneel down and I need someone/something to help get back up. Bad knees, hip, eyes and ears getting old sucks!

 

[GOPerfect]

Driving? That would be interesting, love to try that but I can just barely get a small truck down into the ravine that's my range.
That shotgun course sounds fun but not for me anymore, I kneel down and I need someone/something to help get back up. Bad knees, hip, eyes and ears getting old sucks!

Getting there quickly in regards to the knees...