Cops for gun control - article

[GOPerfect]

Everyone else needs a specific license or licenses.

Law enforcement seems to claim thwir badge is a wildcard of dozens of others.

I'm just saying, if there's a license for it, then there should be one license for it. Not different one that vary depending on who you work for.

Just like drivers licenses. You guys can't drive "on your badge". You are expected to maintain a normal driver's license like everyone else. Why not do that for everything else too.

I realize it's quite convenient to get the all access pass, but if something is worth licensing, then everyone who wants to do it should have to meet those requirements.

If you think the cops need to do it, but the requirements to obtain the normal license are too onerous, then they should re-evaluate those requirements.

We already have a license to do these things; its called the Criminal Procedure Law.

 

[spat]

We already have a license to do these things; its called the Criminal Procedure Law.

If they need to carve out something special for you guys, then they should just eliminate the license.

In theory a license means you have some special training necessary to do whatever it is your licensed for.

If you dont have that training, you shouldn't be doing that.

The government isn't supposed to be doling out special powers based on it's notion of who needs what. So any attempt to justify special authority based on "need" is wrong on it's face.

If there's a reason to restrict some activity to only those people with appropriate training, then anyone with that training should be good.

 

[GOPerfect]

If they need to carve out something special for you guys, then they should just eliminate the license.

In theory a license means you have some special training necessary to do whatever it is your licensed for.

If you dont have that training, you shouldn't be doing that.

The government isn't supposed to be doling out special powers based on it's notion of who needs what. So any attempt to justify special authority based on "need" is wrong on it's face.

If there's a reason to restrict some activity to only those people with appropriate training, then anyone with that training should be good.

There is plenty of training.

 

[spat]

There is plenty of training.

The same amount it would take someone else to get the license for that stuff ?

Of course the example we are talking about here is NY pistol permits, which have no training requirement. That makes that licensing scheme utter bullshit.

Basically, the government should assume anyone has any need they say they have. Nothing should be limited to only people who some bureaucrat or legislator decides "needs" it.

 

[GOPerfect]

The same amount it would take someone else to get the license for that stuff ?

Of course the example we are talking about here is NY pistol permits, which have no training requirement. That makes that licensing scheme utter bullshit.

Basically, the government should assume anyone has any need they say they have. Nothing should be limited to only people who some bureaucrat or legislator decides "needs" it.

Our Badge and ID is our Pistol permit. You just have a different form of permit.

(Granted, I have my pistol permit, just saying)

 

[spat]

Our Badge and ID is our Pistol permit. You just have a different form of permit.

(Granted, I have my pistol permit, just saying)

Then why isn't it your drivers license too ?

I know that's how the law is written. I'm saying it shouldn't be.

 

[GOPerfect]

Then why isn't it your drivers license too ?

I know that's how the law is written. I'm saying it shouldn't be.

Again, all professions have similar to this.

I can posses illegal drugs if the situation is correct, most of society cannot.

I can disobey traffic laws when needed.

I can do many things on the job that non-police cannot.

Should I have a separate license for all of that?

 

[spat]

Again, all professions have similar to this.

I can posses illegal drugs if the situation is correct, most of society cannot.

I can disobey traffic laws when needed.

I can do many things on the job that non-police cannot.

Should I have a separate license for all of that?

Yes.

And anyone with the same license should be able to do the same stuff in the same circumstance. The government should not be able to limit any power to only it's agents.

Monopolies are bad. Government's job is to control them, not create them.

 

[Darth]

Woah, now I'm gonna think they aren't on our side!

 

[BerettaGuy]

Most cops carry a gun to protect themselves. I know I do.

I was a cop before the courts ruled that I had no duty to protect the people that I "thought" I was sworn to protect and serve. Boy was I figgn stupid.
Little did I know that the people in "we the people" didn't mean squat.
How figgin naive I was to not know I was there to protect politicians, bureaucrats, and other cops and enforce the laws they created.
Then I moved to New York and found out what a real police state was all about because the guns I legally owned in Missouri were now contraband in New York. Yeah! My question remains. If the courts have ruled that cops have no legal duty to protect anyone, why do they need guns?

 

[BerettaGuy]

Everyone else needs a specific license or licenses. IN A POLICE STATE!

Law enforcement seems to claim thwir badge is a wildcard of dozens of others. IN A POLICE STATE

Just look at the "cops" today! They are outfitted more like a Star Wars storm trooper than a Public Service employee.
Now they even made body armor for "we the people" illegal in NY.
I mean what the actual Police State phuck?

 

[GOPerfect]

I was a cop before the courts ruled that I had no duty to protect the people that I "thought" I was sworn to protect and serve. Boy was I figgn stupid.
Little did I know that the people in "we the people" didn't mean squat.
How figgin naive I was to not know I was there to protect politicians, bureaucrats, and other cops and enforce the laws they created.
Then I moved to New York and found out what a real police state was all about because the guns I legally owned in Missouri were now contraband in New York. Yeah! My question remains. If the courts have ruled that cops have no legal duty to protect anyone, why do they need guns?

I will say it again, I carry a gun at work for the same reason I carry a gun out of work; for my protection.

 

[BerettaGuy]

I will say it again, I carry a gun at work for the same reason I carry a gun out of work; for my protection.

Not arguing that point, but I carry for the protection of my family! If an incident goes down and I am alone, I may or may not choose to involve myself, knowing that the police will most likely treat me as a perp and at the very least I will have to retain a lawyer not to mention the significant life changing event.

But I am genuinely asking, how did we get to a point in the USA where police are a "special class" of citizens and then there is the rest of us. Storm Troopers fitted with body armor - weapons - unique cars - etc? For what actual reason? Here in the land of the free. We are all equal under the law, unless you are a government official or police officer. What is this? Hunger Games?
It started with the so-called "patriot act". Now let's fast forward to 2022. Trump Derangement Syndrome has made patriotism a bad word. So it is time to repeal the "patriot act" and return the police to protect and serve the people and follow the figgin constitution again.

 

[Darth]

Not arguing that point, but I carry for the protection of my family! If an incident goes down and I am alone, I may or may not choose to involve myself, knowing that the police will most likely treat me as a perp and at the very least I will have to retain a lawyer not to mention the significant life changing event.

But I am genuinely asking, how did we get to a point in the USA where police are a "special class" of citizens and then there is the rest of us. Storm Troopers fitted with body armor - weapons - unique cars - etc? For what actual reason? Here in the land of the free. We are all equal under the law, unless you are a government official or police officer. What is this? Hunger Games?
It started with the so-called "patriot act". Now let's fast forward to 2022. Trump Derangement Syndrome has made patriotism a bad word. So it is time to repeal the "patriot act" and return the police to protect and serve the people and follow the figgin constitution again.

It started way before that.

 

[GOPerfect]

Targuing that point, but I carry for the protection of my family! If an incident goes down and I am alone, I may or may not choose to involve myself, knowing that the police will most likely treat me as a perp and at the very least I will have to retain a lawyer not to mention the significant life changing event.

But I am genuinely asking, how did we get to a point in the USA where police are a "special class" of citizens and then there is the rest of us. Storm Troopers fitted with body armor - weapons - unique cars - etc? For what actual reason? Here in the land of the free. We are all equal under the law, unless you are a government official or police officer. What is this? Hunger Games?
It started with the so-called "patriot act". Now let's fast forward to 2022. Trump Derangement Syndrome has made patriotism a bad word. So it is time to repeal the "patriot act" and return the police to protect and serve the people and follow the figgin constitution again.

There is no one point in time of these changes. Many of these issues have evolved over a very long period of time.

Go back to old TV shows of the 70's and 80's, things began changing bach then.

Each year that goes by, it gets worse and worse. But then again, citizens have gotten worse. Crimes is getting worse.

I wish police were more like fire, sit around all day and wait for the calls to come in.

Let the chips of society fall the way they do.

 

[spat]

I will say it again, I carry a gun at work for the same reason I carry a gun out of work; for my protection.

And that's great.

You should have the same requirements to do so as anyone else who does that.

The pizza delivery kid is under threat from the same criminals you are. Except he doesn't have backup.


Now, to be clear, I'm saying neither one of you should have to do anything more to carry a gun than a pocket knife, but if the government is going to make the pizza boy jump through hoops, then all the government agents should have the exact same hoops to jump through.

 

[GOPerfect]

And that's great.

You should have the same requirements to do so as anyone else who does that.

The pizza delivery kid is under threat from the same criminals you are. Except he doesn't have backup.


Now, to be clear, I'm saying neither one of you should have to do anything more to carry a gun than a pocket knife, but if the government is going to make the pizza boy jump through hoops, then all the government agents should have the exact same hoops to jump through.

I went through months of academy.

If the pizza boy wants back up, he should call the other pizza delivery people to assist him.

When a surgeon is performing surgery, he has back up in case something goes wrong.

 

[spat]

I went through months of academy.

If the pizza boy wants back up, he should call the other pizza delivery people to assist him.

When a surgeon is performing surgery, he has back up in case something goes wrong.

Yep, a good organization will make sure their people have backup.

The problem is that our government has decreed that the only backup that pizza boy is allowed are the cops, and then they have decreed that the cops have no obligation to provide him backup.

And *then* they make it very difficult for him to even defend himself properly.

Although, I have to admit, the idea of a pizza boy mafia to defend themselves has a certain appeal...

 

[GOPerfect]

Yep, a good organization will make sure their people have backup.

The problem is that our government has decreed that the only backup that pizza boy is allowed are the cops, and then they have decreed that the cops have no obligation to provide him backup.

And *then* they make it very difficult for him to even defend himself properly.

Although, I have to admit, the idea of a pizza boy mafia to defend themselves has a certain appeal...

Where is it written that pizza boys can't back each other up?

 

[Truebeliever]

Again, all professions have similar to this.

I can posses illegal drugs if the situation is correct, most of society cannot.

I can disobey traffic laws when needed.

I can do many things on the job that non-police cannot.

Should I have a separate license for all of that?

You forgot to add whole at work and you get into a car accident, the insurance company can’t use it as an excuse to raise your personal auto insurance

 

[Truebeliever]

Where is it written that pizza boys can't back each other up?

They do. I had to deal with a multiple car pileup when one was racing to back up another one. Not kidding -lol

 

[Truebeliever]

And that's great.

You should have the same requirements to do so as anyone else who does that.

The pizza delivery kid is under threat from the same criminals you are. Except he doesn't have backup.


Now, to be clear, I'm saying neither one of you should have to do anything more to carry a gun than a pocket knife, but if the government is going to make the pizza boy jump through hoops, then all the government agents should have the exact same hoops to jump through.

Really? Ok. The background checks including psychological tests before we could given get the job, before we got the gun training? That’s what the anti-gunners want to impose. A gun permit in most counties would be easier to get.
Driver’s license? It’s required BEFORE one gets hired because they won’t teach basic driving in the academy. Heck, one police job I was offered required one pass an evasive driving test before one got hired because they weren’t going to teach it.

Your requirement idea of separate license for everything a cop does doesn’t make sense. A doctor gets their medical degree and license they don’t have to retest like a paramedic does. A paramedic who does it everyday has to requal when a doctor who hasn’t done emergency medicine in 30 years doesnt
.
Do want a requirement that all people with a gun permit have to requalify every year like active police officers do?
Still want equal treatment for everyone in everything despite any past experience or training ?

 

[spat]

Where is it written that pizza boys can't back each other up?

Can you imagine the shit storm if they actually did that ?

Bernie Goetz tried that for subway riders and the guys who run the police were having a complete meltdown.

 

[spat]

Really? Ok. The background checks including psychological tests before we could given get the job, before we got the gun training? That’s what the anti-gunners want to impose. A gun permit in most counties would be easier to get.
Driver’s license? It’s required BEFORE one gets hired because they won’t teach basic driving in the academy. Heck, one police job I was offered required one pass an evasive driving test before one got hired because they weren’t going to teach it.

Your requirement idea of separate license for everything a cop does doesn’t make sense. A doctor gets their medical degree and license they don’t have to retest like a paramedic does. A paramedic who does it everyday has to requal when a doctor who hasn’t done emergency medicine in 30 years doesnt
.
Do want a requirement that all people with a gun permit have to requalify every year like active police officers do?
Still want equal treatment for everyone in everything despite any past experience or training ?

No. What I want is most of those licenses to just go away completely.

But if the government is going to impose bullshit on the rest of us, then they damn well better suffer too.

If there is something that really does need a license, then it should be one license with one set of qualifications for everybody.

As for the original point, nobody has come up with any reason why cops shouldn't have to get a pistol permit. There is no excuse for exempting them from those rules.

Also, their profession should have no bearing on them receiving one. Im a decent world a jurisdiction that only issues permits to cops should be opening themselves up to a massive equal protection lawsuit.

 

[GOPerfect]

.

As for the original point, nobody has come up with any reason why cops shouldn't have to get a pistol permit. There is no excuse for exempting them from those rules.

We have, many times. They/we have a Badge and an ID. We went through the same fingerprinting and background checks that those that carry a permit. Actually, most cops go through a higher level of checks.

 

[Truebeliever]

No. What I want is most of those licenses to just go away completely.

But if the government is going to impose bullshit on the rest of us, then they damn well better suffer too.

If there is something that really does need a license, then it should be one license with one set of qualifications for everybody.

As for the original point, nobody has come up with any reason why cops shouldn't have to get a pistol permit. There is no excuse for exempting them from those rules.

Also, their profession should have no bearing on them receiving one. Im a decent world a jurisdiction that only issues permits to cops should be opening themselves up to a massive equal protection lawsuit.

You keep making the same mistake. The New York law makers don’t give a damn for police officers as individuals. Just the opposite. Go look at some of the laws that just apply to police officers. Use force…. not only does the local DA look at you but now the state AG’s office. Win a local trial , the feds can take a crack at you.
You as a normal citizen can tackle a criminal but in NYC if a police officer applies any pressure to the chest area, they can be criminally charged. These are the same people you think give a damn about police officers.
As for a pistol permit for active police officers, it would be a waste of time. Their profession requires a higher standard than the permit holders and is only in effect as long as they hold those standards.
Again, a doctor doesn’t have to prove they know CPR every few years like other licensed medical professionals. Why? It’s the minimum of their knowledge base.
Active Cops have to requal once a year. Do you requalify at least once a year? It’s not the course of fire but just scheduling that is the pain. Cops are under constant supervision unlike a permit holder.
And red flag laws….cops are constantly under that threat by their department. Get suspended or other disciplinary review, they will take the officer’s handguns without any outside review process. That’s not as easily done if the cop has a permit from a different jurisdiction— that’s why they have that agreement among police departments and licensing authorities not to issue permits.

 

[spat]

You keep making the same mistake. The New York law makers don’t give a damn for police officers as individuals. Just the opposite. Go look at some of the laws that just apply to police officers. Use force…. not only does the local DA look at you but now the state AG’s office. Win a local trial , the feds can take a crack at you.
You as a normal citizen can tackle a criminal but in NYC if a police officer applies any pressure to the chest area, they can be criminally charged. These are the same people you think give a damn about police officers.
As for a pistol permit for active police officers, it would be a waste of time. Their profession requires a higher standard than the permit holders and is only in effect as long as they hold those standards.
Again, a doctor doesn’t have to prove they know CPR every few years like other licensed medical professionals. Why? It’s the minimum of their knowledge base.
Active Cops have to requal once a year. Do you requalify at least once a year? It’s not the course of fire but just scheduling that is the pain. Cops are under constant supervision unlike a permit holder.
And red flag laws….cops are constantly under that threat by their department. Get suspended or other disciplinary review, they will take the officer’s handguns without any outside review process. That’s not as easily done if the cop has a permit from a different jurisdiction— that’s why they have that agreement among police departments and licensing authorities not to issue permits.

No, they don't care about officers at all.

But they do care about the departments and the unions that donate heavily to them.

Bottom line, they created this shit sandwich, they should have to take a bite like everyone else.

 

[spat]

We have, many times. They/we have a Badge and an ID. We went through the same fingerprinting and background checks that those that carry a permit. Actually, most cops go through a higher level of checks.

Right, you go through the same checks. So you can all easily get a permit. Shouldn't be hard at all, the BG check is done, so just drop the application on the judges desk and let him get to it in order.

 

[GOPerfect]

Right, you go through the same checks. So you can all easily get a permit. Shouldn't be hard at all, the BG check is done, so just drop the application on the judges desk and let him get to it in order.

@Truebeliever explained this already. Some departments will not allow it.

I have mine so does nearly everyone that I work with.

 

[spat]

@Truebeliever explained this already. Some departments will not allow it.

I have mine so does nearly everyone that I work with.

Those departments shouldn't have a choice.

If you weren't allowed to carry on your badge, that would put a stop to that crap real quick.

And if they had to have the same requirements for cops to carry as everyone else, that would put a stop to the NYC shenanigans too.

You are arguing about the way things are. I am not disputing that that's how things are.

I am saying that isn't how it should be.