Deer Calibers

[camper4lyfe]

I want to get away from my slug gun for deer (at $5/rnd) and into a rifle. The current plan is to build an AR upper and run with that.

I'm pretty sure I've asked this, though I don't remember where, and I know it's been talked abut, but again I don't remember where, so I'm asking again:

What caliber would you use and why? My current brainstorming is 6.5 grendel, 6.8 spc, or .300 blackout

As I mentioned, it's for deer, range would be, most likely 100yds and in (although going out to 200 yds might be in the future, it's hard to say).

300 is my current front runner simply for the ease of transition as no new parts would be required other than the upper. 6.8 spc is #2 on my list for ballistics inside of 200 yds, and the 6.5 is currently sitting third.

 

[1075tech]

Any of the 3 will definitely do it inside of 100 yards. At range, the 6.5G has better ballistics than the 6.8. I personally like the 6.5. Everything from lightweight varmint to deer and larger game to long(ish) range target shooting with one gun.

Longest deer kill I've made was with the 16" barreled 6.5 @ ~190 yards using 120gr Federal Fusion

 

[Saltwater60]

I chose 6.8spc for my deer caliber but I’m at max 100 yards. I’ve been happy with it but I have not shot a deer with it. I also put a really nice primary arms red dot in 3x and it has not fogged up on the crappiest wettest day of hunting last year. My vortex binoculars fogged up badly.
I think the 6.5 or 6.8 is a good bet.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Grendel at 185 yds. Recoil is so light I watched the impact. 129g Hornady Interlock. Right through and shredded both lungs.

 

[Saltwater60]

They say they are essentially identical. I went with 6.8apc because I found an upper second hand and it was cheap. Also back then the military selecting this caliber was an option.

6.5 Grendel vs 6.8 SPC: Which is Better? | Bear Creek Arsenal

Both 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are wonderful AR-15 hunting cartridges. They deliver 30-40% more energy vs 5.56 NATO in similar barrel lengths.

www.bearcreekarsenal.com

 

[turbobike]

I would try 6.5 or 6.8 or 7.62x39, I've shot three deer with a 300BO 110gr, all boiler room shots 100-125yds...Not impressed, lost one, other two ran 250-300 yards, needed follow-up shots...
Have had much better luck with the 7.62x39 Federal Fusion, same distance, only ran 20-30 yards both times..

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Let me know if you go the Grendel route. I have numerous. Also have more than enough brass to get you started.

Also, be aware there are Grendel Type I and Type II chamberings. Most are now Type II but you want to make sure the barrel and bolts match.

 

[penrod72]

I went 6.8 SPC, very happy with it. Would not hesitate out past 200 yards.

 

[Acer-m14]

hand to hand .. come to my freezer ..

 

[JamieZ]

I use a 6.8 spc AR for deer hunting. Ive shot a running doe at 215yds, it dropped in 20.
18" barrel shooting 90gr Sierra hollow points,,, I dont believe Sierra makes them anymore.
Think I have like 700 of them loaded up though.

 

[meketrefe]

2 or 3 times a year we get the same question.
you are going to get so many opinions or suggestions that you will head will spin.
If you really look for advice and want to be objective and practical about it here are some suggestions based on extensive use of all those cslibers and a few others including hunting and ballistics both external and terminal:.
Considerations requirements:
* it can cleanly kill a deer.
*It has good accuracy and range
*if it is decent for short / mid range then accuracy is not that critical.
*If it is desired for longer than average range beyond the shotgun then consistency and accuracy become more critical
*It has the wouldinh potential at 150 to 300 yards.
*Not only has the woulding potential but it can anchor a deer, even a large mule or bear or hardy hog ( do it all) ... not easy for many ar15 cartriges and loads.
* Easy to reload / components reasons
....I want to address the reason heard many times in the past, even by myself about cost and availability of components, bolts and magazines. Well this is a truly important consideration but mostly for competition and high volume shooting not the aversge hunting rig where it is more specialized upper.

we need to take a serious look at the candidates snd why before the how. Also consider other options that are much better for hunting.

are we interested on a discussion or already made the decission and are looking for a few oks?

 

[camper4lyfe]

2 or 3 times a year we get the same question.
you are going to get so many opinions or suggestions that you will head will spin.
If you really look for advice and want to be objective and practical about it here are some suggestions based on extensive use of all those cslibers and a few others including hunting and ballistics both external and terminal:.
Considerations requirements:
* it can cleanly kill a deer.
*It has good accuracy and range
*if it is decent for short / mid range then accuracy is not that critical.
*If it is desired for longer than average range beyond the shotgun then consistency and accuracy become more critical
*It has the wouldinh potential at 150 to 300 yards.
*Not only has the woulding potential but it can anchor a deer, even a large mule or bear or hardy hog ( do it all) ... not easy for many ar15 cartriges and loads.
* Easy to reload / components reasons
....I want to address the reason heard many times in the past, even by myself about cost and availability of components, bolts and magazines. Well this is a truly important consideration but mostly for competition and high volume shooting not the aversge hunting rig where it is more specialized upper.

we need to take a serious look at the candidates snd why before the how. Also consider other options that are much better for hunting.

are we interested on a discussion or already made the decission and are looking for a few oks?

So you're saying I should go with the .300 blackout, right? I hear it's your favorite round

 

[ManrisFrack]

I've been using a 6.8 SPC for 10 years now and I've shot a handful of deer with it from 50yrds to 150yrds. Only lost one and it was entirely my fault - tried to take him on the run and gut shot him. One other was a spine shot that needed a second round. The rest were one through the chest and an easy blood trail. 110gr Accubond, Silver State Armory, Tactical load - runs a little over 2500 fps out of my 18" AR15 Performance barrel. Ever since Nosler bought SSA, their ammo has been anemic. I think you can reload the accubonds to get close to that fairly easily though. Remington is another brand to avoid with the 6.8.

Federal 115gr Fusions, S&B 110gr PTS, and Hornady 120gr SST (these seem to be out of stock everywhere at the moment) are probably your best bet for widely available factory hunting rounds. There's also a new 100gr copper round from Hornady but I don't know how effective it is. Probably gonna be $1 to $1.50 per round for hunting ammo - maybe more at a local shop due to the lack of volume up here in newyorkistan. 68Forums is a good place for all things 6.8 SPC.

6.8 vs Grendel... definitely not worth all the time people have wasted on it. Performance-wise they are extremely close from both the shooter's perspective and the target's perspective. I wouldn't do 300 BO. Granted this is shit I read on the internet but it just seems too marginal. Need to use a bullet with low energy opening, need to keep the range low, etc. With the 6.8, I will question my ability to make the shot at a much shorter distance than I will question the terminal ballistics of the round/rifle. I don't think I could get there with a Blackout.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Im probably mistaken but I thought .300blk and 7.62x39 depending on bullet gr and velocity had similar ballistics?

 

[meketrefe]

Im probably mistaken but I thought .300blk and 7.62x39 depending on bullet gr and velocity had similar ballistics?

For the 300 BO marketing people and fanatics sure.
.....
Or alternatively we can pull the loads, test data and old theads and do a real analysis.

 

[meketrefe]

So you're saying I should go with the .300 blackout, right? I hear it's your favorite round

The 300 whisper / blackout is a very interesting choice for subsonic work like all the whisper line that is what is designed for by JT.
I had the whisper long before it was marketed as the magical BO internet sensation.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

2 or 3 times a year we get the same question.
you are going to get so many opinions or suggestions that you will head will spin.
If you really look for advice and want to be objective and practical about it here are some suggestions based on extensive use of all those cslibers and a few others including hunting and ballistics both external and terminal:.
Considerations requirements:
* it can cleanly kill a deer.
*It has good accuracy and range
*if it is decent for short / mid range then accuracy is not that critical.
*If it is desired for longer than average range beyond the shotgun then consistency and accuracy become more critical
*It has the wouldinh potential at 150 to 300 yards.
*Not only has the woulding potential but it can anchor a deer, even a large mule or bear or hardy hog ( do it all) ... not easy for many ar15 cartriges and loads.
* Easy to reload / components reasons
....I want to address the reason heard many times in the past, even by myself about cost and availability of components, bolts and magazines. Well this is a truly important consideration but mostly for competition and high volume shooting not the aversge hunting rig where it is more specialized upper.

we need to take a serious look at the candidates snd why before the how. Also consider other options that are much better for hunting.

are we interested on a discussion or already made the decission and are looking for a few oks?

I was only posting my personal experience. I tried the SST's and for some reason the Interlocks were markedly more accurate. I doped that load to 250yds and that shot hit right where I held over.

 

[RedBreast21]

.300 savage. Hey, it's done right by me in my 1950 model 99. lol

 

[thughes]

For the 300 BO marketing people and fanatics sure.
.....
Or alternatively we can pull the loads, test data and old theads and do a real analysis.

357 Gunner FTW! (RIP)

 

[meketrefe]

357 Gunner FTW! (RIP)

long time no see. what are you up to?
yes, the 35 project with terry was one of the coolest things. The beowolf was also a fun project.
real game wackers.
....so many memories.
...so sad he is not here with us.

 

[meketrefe]

I was only posting my personal experience. I tried the SST's and for some reason the Interlocks were markedly more accurate. I doped that load to 250yds and that shot hit right where I held over.

yes that is close to max range for that but doable and I am sure you are very confident to take a longer shot. That is mot possible with the rather anemic blackout.
sst is decent but ocassionallly could be a tad inconsistent when hitting bone. not as much of a concern with white tail as with mule deer or hardy hogs.
The key with many calibers is to keep impact speeds above 1900 to 2100 fps for best terminal design activation as most manufactures suggest.
we are not talking gel block synthetic testing but real life induced shock along with wounding.
That is where speed or compensating with section and mass win.
with larger section we can compensate for lack of speed but then we jump into the mid bore.
the grendel is now a mature cartrige. not the most popular hunter but a good choice. I found the 264 LBC to be a better chamber and bolt option for the grendel. It is a better reamer and then easier to find last generation 7.62x39 bolts with extra meat around the lugs. But aside from those considerations still a reasonable choice.

 

[Xae289]

I like the .300 Blackout well enough and took a deer with it this year. The doe weighed around 110-120 lbs and I hit her from about 35 yards away with a double-lung/heart shot. Like Carlos Hathcock said of the 6.5 Grendel, recoil was so light that the scope was still on her after the shot. She ran about 40 yards before laying down. The blood trail from the point of impact to her final resting place was solid. My round was a handloaded 110 gr all-copper Barnes Tac-TX clocking in at just over 2400 fps at the muzzle from my rifle's 16" barrel. Internal damage was extensive. The heart was blown to bits, the near lung was badly damaged, and the far lung was much worse. The exit wound was huge.

It also dropped a coyote that went belly-up on the spot from about 20 yards with that round.

I like the .300 Blackout's mild recoil. It's much quieter than even mild loads in my .270. It kills very well with the ammo I use. Factory ammo used to be cheap. It's relatively cheap and easy to handload.

You can also do silly stuff like me. I have a 1.75-5x scope sighted for my 110 gr supersonic ammo zeroed at 50 yards and which will be relatively flat out to 200 yards, where it'll only have dropped about 3". That would be my absolute max hunting range. And now the silly part is having an offset red dot sighted for my 220 grain subsonic load zeroed at 25 yards that has already dropped 5 inches at 100 yards. It literally takes a magazine swap and tilting the rifle 45° to go from intermediate-caliber rifle performance to pistol-caliber carbine performance. It's a fun thing to do at the range to tell a friend "watch this" and have them surprised at the rifle get much quieter and basically have zero recoil, but without a suppressor, it's not all that useful.

Now, that all sounds like a .300 Blackout sales pitch, but in all honesty, I would say get a 6.5 Grendel. The only reason I got the Blackout is because I was browsing alternative AR calibers years ago and saw this upper for $200, shipped. No new bolt, no new mags. Easy. I liked it, so I slowly put together a full rifle around the upper. For hunting though, the 6.5 Grendel starts with more power and it both retains more power at range with its solid BCs and resists wind drift better. It does this with a heavier bullet and smaller caliber, so sectional density, hence penetration, will be better once it gets to the target. That said, while I think the 6.5 Grendel is a better choice for a hunting rifle, it's not like .300 Blackout is some disappointing letdown. It will work just fine <100 yards with the right ammo.

 

[Shoots100]

long time no see. what are you up to?
yes, the 35 project with terry was one of the coolest things. The beowolf was also a fun project.
real game wackers.
....so many memories.
...so sad he is not here with us.

These two coyote hate the 35 Gunner.
Best and most versatile large bore AR cartridge ever made.

 

[meketrefe]

These two coyote hate the 35 Gunner.
Best and most versatile large bore AR cartridge ever made.
View attachment 181834

I am surprised they are still in one piece. it you hit them in the chest they migh come apart in two halfs.
whst did you use 180 or 200 gr?

 

[Shoots100]

200 gr FTX.
Shot both at 20 yards or less, so I guess the bullet didn't have time to expand and blow them in half.
Haven't shot anything but coyote with my Semi and Bolt gunner's.
Never had to take a second shot.

 

[meketrefe]

200 gr FTX.
Shot both at 20 yards or less, so I guess the bullet didn't have time to expand and blow them in half.
Haven't shot anything but coyote with my Semi and Bolt gunner's.
Never had to take a second shot.

a Grizzly bear load for a coyote ? lol.
too much momentum there.
actually need less grain and more speed so you can take an inexpensive 125gr or150 gr 357 FT or FMJ . They can be propelled to 2900 to 2700fps respectively and this way become brutal in thin walled animals as they sre not designed for those speeds so they disintegrate upon impact and make an exist like 1/2.foot wide taking all the internals out
Even for deer a 160gr FTX is a better choice and if you put them anywhere in the torso they do not take a single step. The hydraulic shock is so large and fast that it turns the lights off every single time.
zero suffering or tracking needed.

 

[meketrefe]

This forum is going crazy. We have people interested in firearms and calibers. They might be confused.

 

[Shoots100]

When I hunt, who knows what going to pop up and the 200 Grn FTX 35 Gunner load is super accurate, so it's what I use.
Any of the OP's caliber choices are good for deer, but I would make my decision on Ammo or reloading component availability.

 

[Vapor]

I like the 6.5 grendel. I would personally feel better if I did need to take a shot beyond 150.


The other option is to go for a large frame. There is no debate if .308 or 6.5 creedmoor is sufficient for deer. Built it right, and you can still be in at 8 lbs.

 

[Acer-m14]

this rifle .. no deer is to big for it ..