Democrats for Assault Weapons

[Drinkthekoolaid]

It's not State enforced suicide..it's suicide for a High School rifle team to get into a combative situation.

I get the premise of having kids defend themselves but it's opening up a massive can of worms to create chaos. What the hell is a cop going to do when he comes into a school in the middle of a gunfight between 2 kids, who's the good and who's the bad? Making a bad situation worse is a responding cop shoots a rifle team kid thinking that's the active shooter. Who's going to be liable when little Timmy shoots a bystander by mistake while trying to kill the gunman etc..

There has to be a better way to protect kids.

There are schools in tornado alley that are installing expandable storm shelters in classrooms. I'm sure something can be done to do similar with safe rooms for school shooters.

And don't even dare have politicians talk about costs when they have the audacity to spend so much of our treasure all around the world but refuse to spend it on us.

 

[Grimscale]

I get the premise of having kids defend themselves but it's opening up a massive can of worms to create chaos.

With the way things are right now, there is already chaos. If they can't solve the chaos problem, then at least let the kids defend themselves.
It is painfully obvious that the police and politicians have no interest in defending them.

There has to be a better way to protect kids.

There is.
People in the school who are trained to confront and attempt to nullify a threat. Be it official law enforcement, retired law enforcement, trained civilians, trained teachers, etc.
Minimize intrusions into the structure. Have a specific area for visitors to arrive at. Have specific MANNED entry points for students.

You won't catch all of it. To even think you can is ludicrous. But it would minimize threats.

Yes, it will cost. Maybe we stop giving money to every non-documented person who shows up with their hand out. Maybe we stop giving politicians 150% raises every other year.


I would trust students who have been training more than any lard-assed rent-a-cop or even a coward "real" cop with their own defense.

 

[spat]

This is not accurate. I interpret getting the high school rifle team involves means thay would assemble and track a "shhoter" and engage. Hell, even Professional law officer's with training declined that situation as proven in Fla.

I would take the high-school 3gun team over the Uvdale or Parkland PD any day.

But, you are correct, they shouldn't be sent in to engage, they should be evacuated with everyone else.

But, if the chickens hit LE and administration are just going to lock everyone in the building with the killer and sip Mai Thai's in the parking lot, then yea, let the kids have some MP5s and see how they deal with it.

 

[spat]

Put Yourself in their shoes..High School children are not qualified to search and engage plus how the hell would they get any weapons while in school? They would be under proper storage at that time. OR..they get a call at the range to come back to school and engage the shooter?
Think.

Recent history shows the LE aren't qualified either.

When I was in high school we had archery in gym class. Several kids brought their own bows in to use.

Pretty sure if we'd had a 3 gun unit they would have supplied their own equipment for that too.

Now, certainly most kids aren't qualified, but we aren't talking about sending all of them.

Most kids probably can't throw a baseball very well either, but I bet the varsity baseball team can.

 

[Acer-m14]

When I was in high school we had archery in gym class. Several kids brought their own bows in to use.

Pretty sure if we'd had a 3 gun unit they would have supplied their own equipment for that too.

that sound like the 2a Militia the Founding Fathers wanted .. supply your own

 

[spat]

It's not State enforced suicide..it's suicide for a High School rifle team to get into a combative situation.

Some schools have an "active shooter plan" that involves the kids throwing soup cans at their attacker.

I think we should give the qualified ones something more effective.

You're notion that pinning a badge on some guys chest automatically makes him Rambo is ridiculous.

Who would you rather have rescuing your kid, these guys, who are already in the basement range practicing room cleaning drills,



Or this guy, after he gets there in half an hour




Or, if you'd prefer real world examples,

This girl

This 14-year-old Twin Cities girl is a champ on the ‘action shooting’ circuit

It’s a sport that stemmed from military-only, “Soldier of Fortune” matches, with some claiming roots back to World War II bull’s-eye competitions.

www.twincities.com

Or this "highly trained professional".

 

[Acer-m14]

This girl

i remember her ..

 

[dwa12479]

I don't feel any safer inside the "secure" part of an airport than I feel outside.

School shootings started ramping up around the same time gun-free zones came into play. Get rid of the gun-free zones and empower school staff to defend themselves and their students, just like they can at home.

Fun fact... My wife is a teacher. She was told several times during training sessions that teachers are under no obligation to protect the students. Plan accordingly.

Teachers shouldn't have to be responsible for the safety of their students. Thats not fair. There are a lot of very good teachers out there that are not setup to be tactical warriors. It shouldn't be part of their job description. Schools should have trained, armed guards. And not guys in full SWAT gear with a K9 on their heel. They should look like US Secret Service. Discreet, yet ready to do maximum violence at a moments notice.

 

[fresch]

We were a family of 6 kids and you don't want to take on any of us boys or girls.
All can shoot rifle, shotgun, pistol, and dad who fought in the golden gloves back in the ~ 30's made sure we all could "box". We have handed down this training the best we could to our children.
I would have no problem with a 16-18 yr old defending with any form of lethal force.

 

[spat]

Teachers shouldn't have to be responsible for the safety of their students. Thats not fair. There are a lot of very good teachers out there that are not setup to be tactical warriors. It shouldn't be part of their job description. Schools should have trained, armed guards. And not guys in full SWAT gear with a K9 on their heel. They should look like US Secret Service. Discreet, yet ready to do maximum violence at a moments notice.

None of that is necessary.

Just allow teachers who want to carry their personal sidearm to do so, and expel all the gangbangers.

Problem solved.

 

[Grimscale]

There are a lot of very good teachers out there that are not setup to be tactical warriors.

This is true.
it is also true that there are quite a few who ARE capable and willing to defend their students. They should be able to do so without stigma.
They are more likely to be the first ones to respond to a situation as they are closest to the incident.

 

[dwa12479]

None of that is necessary.

Just allow teachers who want to carry their personal sidearm to do so, and expel all the gangbangers.

Problem solved.

I would have no problem with teachers being allowed to carry if they so choose, I just don't want to see it forced on the ones who can't or don't want to.

 

[dwa12479]

This is true.
it is also true that there are quite a few who ARE capable and willing to defend their students. They should be able to do so without stigma.
They are more likely to be the first ones to respond to a situation as they are closest to the incident.

I would have no problem with teachers being allowed to carry if they so choose, I just don't want to see it forced on the ones who can't or don't want to.

 

[spat]

I would have no problem with teachers being allowed to carry if they so choose, I just don't want to see it forced on the ones who can't or don't want to.

Nobody is asking for that.

The only people talking about making it a job requirement are the people arguing against allowing it at all. They are trying some aort of perverted "slippery slope" argument that equates allowing something to making it mandatory.

 

[Acer-m14]

kids that hunt and know guns should be allowed and left up to the kid to carry in school if they want to also ..


just a photo of a Teacher and Student arming there School from a threat ..

 

[spat]

The argument against allowing teachers to be armed seems as silly to me as the argument that we shouldn't have fire extinguishers in the school because we want the fire department to respond and the teachers shouldn't have to be firefighters.

They put AEDs all over the place too. If you're having a heart attack, you're better off with someone learning how to use it from the instructions printed on the back than you are waiting for the paramedics.

The bottom line is that anyone responding right away is frequently better than the the best experts 1/2 an hour later in an emergency situation.

This is true for many things. If you're choking to death on a carrot, some untrained bus boy trying to do the Heimlich while reading the instruction poster in the resturant is better than a doctor who shows up 20 mins later.

I can't believe any regular on this site is taking the "wait for the experts" position on a violent attack, but here we are.

Now, I also believe that there are many cases where "wait for the experts" is the right advice. Particularly for injuries that aren't immediately life threatening. Certainly many car accidents and similar fall under that category. If they're not dying, you don't want to try to move them.

This should be something they actively *teach* at those schools from middle school at least on up. When to respond despite lack of training and when to wait.

 

[Acer-m14]

@spat

do you know of the yard of ale restaurant in Piffard NY .. its just south from Geneseo ?

my 13th bday was there .. i inhaled one of them after dinner mints .. and it got stuck

grandma beat my ass up smacking my back to get that candy out ... lol

and that is not the first time i inhaled something .

i was like 4 or so .. choking on gum .. at Christmas party at grams ..

Aunt confiscated all the gum from the kids lol

 

[tirwin1]

If it was known that some of the teachers at the school were carrying, would that homicidal maniac even attempt to carry out her attack? We should allow (not mandate) teachers or other employees to carry and then let the public know this fact (without specifying who). My guess is when the first nutjob encounters active resistance we will start to see fewer of these instances going forward.

 

[Grimscale]

If it was known that some of the teachers at the school were carrying, would that homicidal maniac even attempt to carry out her attack? We should allow (not mandate) teachers or other employees to carry and then let the public know this fact (without specifying who). My guess is when the first nutjob encounters active resistance we will start to see fewer of these instances going forward.

Yeah, it would also reduce copycat crimes if the media wasn't glamorizing the perp.
The headline should read "mentally ill individual attempted to shoot up a school. They failed and died."
No identification of the shooter. Let them fade away into the fog of history.

 

[spat]

@spat

do you know of the yard of ale restaurant in Piffard NY .. its just south from Geneseo ?

my 13th bday was there .. i inhaled one of them after dinner mints .. and it got stuck

grandma beat my ass up smacking my back to get that candy out ... lol

and that is not the first time i inhaled something .

i was like 4 or so .. choking on gum .. at Christmas party at grams ..

Aunt confiscated all the gum from the kids lol

Yep, the yard was one of our local favorites.

Did the rehearsal dinner there when we got married.

 

[dwa12479]

If it was known that some of the teachers at the school were carrying, would that homicidal maniac even attempt to carry out her attack? We should allow (not mandate) teachers or other employees to carry and then let the public know this fact (without specifying who). My guess is when the first nutjob encounters active resistance we will start to see fewer of these instances going forward.

For sure. Thats definitely an effective method as well.

 

[Acer-m14]

If it was known that some of the teachers at the school were carrying, would that homicidal maniac even attempt to carry out her attack? We should allow (not mandate) teachers or other employees to carry and then let the public know this fact (without specifying who). My guess is when the first nutjob encounters active resistance we will start to see fewer of these instances going forward.

For sure. Thats definitely an effective method as well.

the School here has a big sign that post upcoming events at the entrance ..

how about just posting on the sign .. WE ARE ARMED .. come and find out ..