Discussion about red dot scopes....

[GOPerfect]

I know some but not enough to be even close to an expert. Maybe one step above novice.

I own a couple different ones. I like the vortex but I am thinking of something a bit better/nicer than that.

I shared the other day that I purchased a new AR, I am looking at what Red dot to use. I was looking at the ones put out blfrom Sig Sauer. My budget is around $450ish.

Tell me the good bad of what you have. Thanks

 

[GOPerfect]

I was looking at this one.

ROMEO7 1x30 mm

 

[meketrefe]

There is nothing a red dot can do that a 1-6 iluminated scope cannot do and a lot more.
I want my equipment to be a versatile as I can afford and it turns out there are CQB scopes that
do more for way less money too.

 

[GUNSICK]

I have this one and its great. You can shift between dot or circle dot. I also love the instant on feature. I paid $350 for it.

ROMEO4B 1x20 mm

You can never go wrong with the Aimpoint PRO for the money also.

 

[Clipazine]

Aimpoint PRO. add a flip-up magnifier if you need it.

 

[STS556]

Aimpoint PRO. add a flip-up magnifier if you need it.

I second this. You can find it for a little over $400. The glass is clear and bright and the dot is crisp, non of that fuzzy stuff for a dot.

 

[Podmonkey]

There is nothing a red dot can do that a 1-6 iluminated scope cannot do and a lot more.
I want my equipment to be a versatile as I can afford and it turns out there are CQB scopes that
do more for way less money too.

That's not really true, and the more I think about it the more I think I am going with a red dot. Two biggest differences are: 1 price- high end red dots end about where low end 1-6 variables start, some overlap of course. 2 eye box- even scopes with generous eye relief still need your eye to be within a certain distance and angle for the reticle to be on, with a red dot you just look through the tube at any distance with minimal parallax issues. Also they are just simpler, no crosshairs with hold over stadia and whatnot to worry about. Personally, since the range I go to is only 25 yards, and since I still have good eyesight and know I can hit man size targets out to 300 meters with irons I think a red dot would best serve me for now.

 

[Jem45472]

You're local, pick up my holosun and take it for a test ride if you'd like. It's an awesome red dot. Selectable very crisp 2 moa dot, or eotech style reticles. 5 year battery life, auto brightness, parralex free, clear glass. I don't mind if you take it for a while.

 

[meketrefe]

IMO eye relief, sight picture are subjective. We all have different set of eyes and we see contrast, light and colors
differently.
For the CQB only the AR is not the ideal gun to start with.
For all purpose defensive rifle, versatility starts by considering redundancy too.
Something that works w/o power has also an advantage.
Some lenses and ocular pieces are so good than in the low end there is no offset angle nor asperity or aberration
or distortion of any kind so effectively they do work as a red dot or even better just for that type of use.
Then on the street having the capability to dial a very forgiving x2 power or even x4 or x6 for long shots
it is a huge undeniable advantage that plays along with the true nature of the rifle where the AR can
get consistent hits out to 500 meters.
Another tactical advantage is just to be able to use the scope to glass/survey the area, identify targets
and so on.
In terms of the cost one can get pretty decent scopes for $300-400 so that is not a problem neither.

Even a simple strike eagle will give way more versatility...

 

[Podmonkey]

This is what I do with my AR. Zero at 25 meters then drop the elevation a click or two. Then hold low at 50 meters or less and high at 300. Worked fine for the pop up range in the Army and that's all the maths my brain can handle. Red dot works fine for that.

 

[shootemup]

I am really liking my Vortex Spitfire 1x............it is a PRISM scope (the reticle is similar to an Eotech's and is ETCHED so even w/ the light turned off or the battery dies, it is still always usable) there is also a 3x version

http://i60.tinypic.com/wcfki0.jpg 1x http://i.imgur.com/oZhShRVl.jpg 3x

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I've been watching a lot of these tactical rifleman videos lately. He has some interesting ideas on set ups, tactics, gear and strategy.

 

[GOPerfect]

I've been watching a lot of these tactical rifleman videos lately. He has some interesting ideas on set ups, tactics, gear and strategy.

GREAT Video!

 

[FrankenCub]

You're local, pick up my holosun and take it for a test ride if you'd like. It's an awesome red dot. Selectable very crisp 2 moa dot, or eotech style reticles. 5 year battery life, auto brightness, parralex free, clear glass. I don't mind if you take it for a while.

I second the Holosun. After much reading, watching videos, and hair pulling I picked up the 503G. Selectable dot/horse shoe dot. The instant on works great, you just touch the rifle and it's on the last setting you had it on.There may be better choices, for those who can afford them, and there are far worse choices. I'm very happy with mine.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I was looking at this one.

ROMEO7 1x30 mm

holosun makes these

 

[GOPerfect]

holosun makes these

I did not know that!

 

[Marine Cpl]

That's not really true, and the more I think about it the more I think I am going with a red dot. Two biggest differences are: 1 price- high end red dots end about where low end 1-6 variables start, some overlap of course. 2 eye box- even scopes with generous eye relief still need your eye to be within a certain distance and angle for the reticle to be on, with a red dot you just look through the tube at any distance with minimal parallax issues. Also they are just simpler, no crosshairs with hold over stadia and whatnot to worry about. Personally, since the range I go to is only 25 yards, and since I still have good eyesight and know I can hit man size targets out to 300 meters with irons I think a red dot would best serve me for now.

I'll add durability, weight, ergonomics, and battery life measured in years that makes the powered argument moot. You also have your flip up iron sights (plastic) that you cannot look through with a scope.

From 0 to 300, there is no need for a scope unless you are a bench shooter.

Oh. And most cannot use a scope with NVG's or a gasmask.

 

[Jem45472]

I was looking at this one.

ROMEO7 1x30 mm

That's a 4 moa dot. A little on the large side for me.

 

[Podmonkey]

Any own an MRO? I've got that one targeted for a RDS option. I've heard good and bad things.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'll add durability, weight, ergonomics, and battery life measured in years that makes the powered argument moot. You also have your flip up iron sights (plastic) that you cannot look through with a scope.

From 0 to 300, there is no need for a scope unless you are a bench shooter.

Oh. And most cannot use a scope with NVG's or a gasmask.

I don't know about you but I could barely use irons with a gas mask on. Nor do I think I could have done much of anything with those God awful 2nd gen monocular NVGs on. The lack of depth perception made it hard to even walk!

 

[meketrefe]

Durability - What red dot compared to what scope?
Weight - You have scopes that are in the 8-12oz weight like the leupold 1-4 hog VX. Comparable wegiht, very durable too same tubes and mechanics
as mounted in brush African rifles.
Battery- Those magnified that have battery cannot compete wtih the battery life of quality red dots but at the same time they will
work w/o a battery while a mal funciton or battery in a red dot makes it a paper weigth. Some scopes models with fiber optic (ie acog) also
provide illumination w minimum light and no batteries.
Magnificaiton mute - A whole new set of tactics is developed around magnification w/o having to resort to secondary optics. Positively Identifying
targets, smaller targets, increased effectiveness, increased surveillance effectiveness and intelligence (An entire team can see much further away
and confirm what they see).
Outside organized force like military we can also see how those advantages increase the versatility of civilian defensive tactics.

Also regarding the military gas masks one can adapt and they all suck anyway and cannot compete wiht better quality equipment special units
and civilians can buy for PPE.

Still one can shoot a target with a LER scope and modern mask pretty effectively albeit fogging up all presenting other annoyances that do not have
anything to do with optics choices.

 

[GOPerfect]

Thanks for all the replies. I know that, now that I am no longer in the Military, I will not be using a gas mask any time soon.

I am not looking for anything too fancy. To be honest, looking to Tacticool the hell out of this gun. Nothing more. I was thinking about a good Red dot with a fold away type magnifier.

I bought a nice Surefire flashlight for it, should be here next week. Really just want a "Wow" gun when I go shooting with my buds. I have my working AR's that I use for training and fighting. This is just going to be a cool, fun gun.

Gunsick, I went and looked at the one you talked about, ROMEO4B 1x20 mm, I liked the looks and the feel of it. Very nice glass.

 

[Marine Cpl]

@meketrefe , durability wise, an Aimpoint or a Primary Arms even can be dragged by a truck, have both lenses cracked, and still maintain zero with a visible dot. There are videos online showing this.

Batteries last 4 years plus and in the event of failure, a flip of the iron sights and you are back in business without having to remove the optic. You can cowitness and see the irons right through the dead optic.

Eye relief also doesn't exist with a red dot. You don't have to look through the scope. As long as you have a cheek weld, the dot is your vision with no effort at all.

Magnification is subjective to the user. Some may want it for a 0 to 200 yard shot and some might not. That's user preference. If using a red dot, 7x magnifiers are available flip to side mounts.

It's all about preference. Speaking for myself only, an AR that'll only be used for 0 to 300 realistically is much handier without a foot long tube on top.

 

[Robin]

For people with astigmatism the laser dot on these will show up somewhat distorted but the Vortex Spitfire is a prism and shows clear, is a 1MOA dot, and like shootenup says, even if the battery dies the dot will still show up. I've owned mil spec Aimpoint, and Eotech, the Vortex suits be better.
Robin

 

[twax100]

Any own an MRO? I've got that one targeted for a RDS option. I've heard good and bad things.

I had an MRO for a little while. It's a trijicon, it was rugged, clear and did what it was suppose to do. For some reason though I just didn't like it as much as a few other dots I have. Something about the sight picture. It seemed more crowded to me.

This is all personal preference though. For all intents and purposes, it's a nice optic.

 

[twax100]

I have a Holosun 403 on an AR and also one on a 10/22. Love them both. Also have a Sig ROMEO5 on a different 10/22 and love that. Apparently because they're pretty much the same sight as bullet guy said.

There seems to be a lot of good options out there but I can vouch for those 2. You'll like em.

 

[Podmonkey]

Lot of love for the holosun RDS. Also didn't know that the Sig romeo sights were Holosun either and I have been considering those.
However stuff like this makes me wary: Unsuitable at Any Range: A Holosun Review - The Firearm Blog I saw some other negative scuttlebut regarding the Holosuns elsewhere I'll see if I can dig it up.
Now I know every brand has its fuck ups and I hear the MROs have their own issues but I read that, look at the price and think that I don't want a range toy sight. I want a bomb proof optic that befits my home defense/SHTF rifle and I'll pay the money for it too. That said the Aimpoint micro T1s are going for variable scope money and that's a tough pill to swallow.
Not trying to ruffle feathers, nor cast aspersions on anyone's choice of gear, but in these type of threads there are often opinions that are derived from different parameters.

 

[GOPerfect]

Not trying to ruffle feathers, nor cast aspersions on anyone's choice of gear, but in these threads there are often opinions that are derived from different parameters.

That was the entire reason for beginning this thread.

 

[Podmonkey]

That was the entire reason for beginning this thread.

Precisely, but I want to be sure that we list our preferences based on what we use/intend it for. What is excellent at the range on a recreational rifle may or may not be appropriate on the rifle you grab when something goes bump in the night, or more critically and God forbid we find ourselves staving off a riot...... or worse yet.
Now if someone has beat on their Holosun, or any other lower cost option and it did you proud, I want to know!

 

[Podmonkey]

Here is the crux of the delima: We all know a chunk of the Aimpoint premium price is for the name, but u ow big a chunk? We also know there are no free lunches, as the price goes down, at what point are corners being cut? Where is the medium? I gotta start looking at the PA stuff since I have seen vids of those getting beat to hell and beyond and still working, but what does PA sacrifice to get such durability at the price?