Elon wants to double H1-B, because America like a sports team
- Thread starter SomeSoldier
- Start date
JunkBoxFull
6.5 Creedmoor
Shouldn`t we be fixing our "dumb people" problem first, rather than flood our country full of elites from other country`s?
Yes we should. Plus H1-B are not for those people. O-1 vistas are and there is no cap.
ManualF150
.308 Win
I'm calling out Trump and Musk on this bullshit.
Keep the jobs for Americans!
Keep the jobs for Americans!
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
H1-B was never used in practice for "top talent." It was always used by big companies to hire people mostly from India (no offense, but it is true and accurate) that will come here and work for pennies on the dollar while hoping for a green card. @SonOfSun and @SomeSoldier can attest. There is NO reason you should have to post an H1-B position on the company job board because of short of "database administrators." Absolutely disgusting how they don't want to pay people wages that reflect their skill so they abuse the H1-B program.
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OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
There's a lot that doesn't make sense there, though I'm sure with some context it might. For example, it tallies up to 136%, which is obviously not possible.
The last two entries are really confusing. They can't be saying that 93% of new jobs went to non-binaries. Maybe it's a tally of males and females for whom race was not identified?
It's the second time I asked for that information. First time was correct mathematically. Also the copied didn't exactly work right so. Let me run it again.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The problem is that their categories aren't mutually exclusive.
You can select Hispanic *and* white or black for instance.
There re many parts of some communities that will never be fixed or corrected. It is not in their DNA....
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
I don't have an issue with meritocracy. I have an issue with the playing field. I don't need a green card. That will never be a "carrot" to make me work for an artificially low wage in the USA. But these guys come here wanting a green card, willing to work for so little, and bring the money back to a country where the cost of living isn't anywhere close to here.
It's not the same thing.
It's not the same thing.
This is a huge red flag. People are saying the war part is a meme, I am not sure because this is a serious topic.
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libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
I'm not saying he wasn't deserving of an H1-B. But you cannot turn a blind eye to the abuse.
If he wanted to ACTUALLY reform it and hold it to the standards it was meant for, I'd be OK with that.
If he wanted to ACTUALLY reform it and hold it to the standards it was meant for, I'd be OK with that.
Up until 2 weeks ago, the vast majority of Americans had no idea what this H1_b was. So much fake outrage over all of this.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
Not so sure. I've been aware since working with H1-B workers in 2012 and seeing postings constantly at companies. I've been vocal as many others on here about how broken and abusive this program is.
Our group here is smarter and more informed than many others.
Not really speaking of our Forum or the members here, the general people out there.
I read all kinds of shit on X about this, up until three days ago, H1-B was never mentioned.
This is why I say fake outrage.,
I have known for a while due to the industry I work in. I didn't know it was this bad.
. I didn't know it was this bad.
This is a huge reason the US is so Fcked! We as a People have little to no idea what is going on.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
The basic idea, at least in IT, is they don't want to pay a lot of IT salaries for specialized work. Say a DBA is 80-100k which seems reasonable, but the lowest part of the curve of salaries is something like 40-50k. As long as these companies offer a salary they can argue is "reasonable" they'll offer that 40k to some guy often from India with an H1-B, saying "no one wanted to work for 40k."
No one wanted to work for THAT salary is the issue because they made it so low.
However, the guy they bring in is held by his dick in the form of a sponsorship to get a green card. So he'll tolerate that low wage, where an American citizen would not, at least until he gets the card in 4-5 years (the guys on H1-B said it takes about that long.) And often they'll live with a ton of other guys and send money back to a place where cost of living is crazy low.
So over the course of 4-5 years, savings of 60k a year, that's 300k savings to the company to shaft an American who would do the job for a living wage in America.
Once they have the card, then they can demand higher wages while not giving a fuck and sending even more money back.
That's how this scam works.
ManualF150
.308 Win
Not to go on a tangent... but every time I see the title H1-B I think "hey, look, it's another virus strain..." 
Now I'll go on, and I'll mind my p's and q's... lol
Now I'll go on, and I'll mind my p's and q's... lol
RedBreast21
6.5 Creedmoor
Without knowing exactly who they are looking for, it would be hard for me to make an educated assessment of the proposal. I know that the majority of undergrad degrees produced by our educational system today are garbage and those that have merit, are in grossly under served fields and lack real talent. The U.S. has fallen significantly in the rankings of math and science. My nephew a freshman has been approached by MIC companies, through the univesity where they are seeking engineers for submarines as no one is jumping into the field. They will pay for schooling. This in 2024.
I'm a little surprised by the sudden outrage of H1b program from say the more conservative and left leaning folks now that the media narrative is attacking Trump again and especially Elon and Vivek. Where the hell was everyone for the last the last 10 years? Large corporations have been laying off IT people and engineers make north of six figures only to replace them with H1b's at half the cost. Changing the job title to get the approval for the foreign workers. Not a word from Obama, Trump or Biden. Not a word from FOX, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS...ect. No one. Not even in message groups like this unless I brought it up and then the response was tepid at best. Now we are all outraged and triggered. lol Adamently defending that we aren't indoctrinated or controlled. lol
The sad truth is we likely don't have the talent immediately available for the time frame necessary. The educational system needs to pivot and that will take a generation or so. WW3 is likely upon us. No time to restore the educational system to produce what we need. That is a completely different and very difficult fight.
During and after WW2, we had a similar situation and we recruited foreigners in MIC. So IMHO, this is no big deal really.
I'm a little surprised by the sudden outrage of H1b program from say the more conservative and left leaning folks now that the media narrative is attacking Trump again and especially Elon and Vivek. Where the hell was everyone for the last the last 10 years? Large corporations have been laying off IT people and engineers make north of six figures only to replace them with H1b's at half the cost. Changing the job title to get the approval for the foreign workers. Not a word from Obama, Trump or Biden. Not a word from FOX, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS...ect. No one. Not even in message groups like this unless I brought it up and then the response was tepid at best. Now we are all outraged and triggered. lol Adamently defending that we aren't indoctrinated or controlled. lol
The sad truth is we likely don't have the talent immediately available for the time frame necessary. The educational system needs to pivot and that will take a generation or so. WW3 is likely upon us. No time to restore the educational system to produce what we need. That is a completely different and very difficult fight.
During and after WW2, we had a similar situation and we recruited foreigners in MIC. So IMHO, this is no big deal really.
Without knowing exactly who they are looking for, it would be hard for me to make an educated assessment of the proposal. I know that the majority of undergrad degrees produced by our educational system today are garbage and those that have merit, are in grossly under served fields and lack real talent. The U.S. has fallen significantly in the rankings of math and science. My nephew a freshman has been approached by MIC companies, through the univesity where they are seeking engineers for submarines as no one is jumping into the field. They will pay for schooling. This in 2024.
I'm a little surprised by the sudden outrage of H1b program from say the more conservative and left leaning folks now that the media narrative is attacking Trump again and especially Elon and Vivek. Where the hell was everyone for the last the last 10 years? Large corporations have been laying off IT people and engineers make north of six figures only to replace them with H1b's at half the cost. Changing the job title to get the approval for the foreign workers. Not a word from Obama, Trump or Biden. Not a word from FOX, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS...ect. No one. Not even in message groups like this unless I brought it up and then the response was tepid at best. Now we are all outraged and triggered. lol Adamently defending that we aren't indoctrinated or controlled. lol
The sad truth is we likely don't have the talent immediately available for the time frame necessary. The educational system needs to pivot and that will take a generation or so. WW3 is likely upon us. No time to restore the educational system to produce what we need. That is a completely different and very difficult fight.
During and after WW2, we had a similar situation and we recruited foreigners in MIC. So IMHO, this is no big deal really.
RedBreast21
6.5 Creedmoor
I'm unsure of your point here. You post a link to a right wing media influencer on X (which makes money off clicks) who shows information from an unknown source. As I said in my original response, corporations have been firing American workers and hiring H1B's for well over 10 years without so much as a peep from anyone or influencer.
Am I to believe these Cook 1,2,3 positions from Hotels is what Elon and Vivek are talking about? They were looking for engineers, IT security and other very high tech skills workers and not line cooks.
JunkBoxFull
6.5 Creedmoor
Pandora`s box will be opened >>>>>>>> January 20th 2025
This is how they use H1B visas
10 minute interview from the Laura Ingraham Show Nov 18, 2015:
H1B isn't being used to bring in talent we don't have. It's being used to replace Americans already doing the work. This was not the intent of the program. I don't know how any company can argue they need H1B workers to do a job that Americans are already doing. If the H1Bs were so qualified, why did they need training from the Americans doing the work? If the Americans aren't qualified then why do they have the jobs already and how are they able to train someone for a job they don't know? It's just greedy fucks like the now rotting UHC CEO screwing people and the USA as a whole to make themselves a bit richer. Tick-Tock-Tick-Tock.
10 minute interview from the Laura Ingraham Show Nov 18, 2015:
....about 250 Disney employees were told in late October that they would be laid off. Many of their jobs were transferred to immigrants on temporary visas for highly skilled technical workers, who were brought in by an outsourcing firm based in India. Over the next three months, some Disney employees were required to train their replacements to do the jobs they had lost.
“I just couldn’t believe they could fly people in to sit at our desks and take over our jobs exactly,” said one former worker, an American in his 40s who remains unemployed since his last day at Disney on Jan. 30. “It was so humiliating to train somebody else to take over your job. I still can’t grasp it.”......
H1B isn't being used to bring in talent we don't have. It's being used to replace Americans already doing the work. This was not the intent of the program. I don't know how any company can argue they need H1B workers to do a job that Americans are already doing. If the H1Bs were so qualified, why did they need training from the Americans doing the work? If the Americans aren't qualified then why do they have the jobs already and how are they able to train someone for a job they don't know? It's just greedy fucks like the now rotting UHC CEO screwing people and the USA as a whole to make themselves a bit richer. Tick-Tock-Tick-Tock.
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Also, not sure why this is a surprise. I posted about this before the election.
Look at his staff after the twitter buyout and layoffs. This picture was taken shortly after the mass layoffs:
It's all H1B foreigners. He loves the idea of laying off Americans and making people virtual slaves. It's what he does. I'm not seeing where all the surprise is coming from. Elon is full of shit and always has been full of shit. From the "cyber truck will be under 40K" to the "ultimate free speech platform" banning/de-badging people who disagree with him. This site (nygunforum.com) is WAY more pro-free speech than he is. I'm sure I've said a lot of things many here disagree with including probably some site mods, but yet - here I am. This site's team should be running the "ultimate free speech town square" and not Elon Musk.
If you think Elon gives a shit about America and its people you need to set the crack pipe down.
Look at his staff after the twitter buyout and layoffs. This picture was taken shortly after the mass layoffs:
It's all H1B foreigners. He loves the idea of laying off Americans and making people virtual slaves. It's what he does. I'm not seeing where all the surprise is coming from. Elon is full of shit and always has been full of shit. From the "cyber truck will be under 40K" to the "ultimate free speech platform" banning/de-badging people who disagree with him. This site (nygunforum.com) is WAY more pro-free speech than he is. I'm sure I've said a lot of things many here disagree with including probably some site mods, but yet - here I am. This site's team should be running the "ultimate free speech town square" and not Elon Musk.
If you think Elon gives a shit about America and its people you need to set the crack pipe down.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
I'm unsure of your point here. You post a link to a right wing media influencer on X (which makes money off clicks) who shows information from an unknown source. As I said in my original response, corporations have been firing American workers and hiring H1B's for well over 10 years without so much as a peep from anyone or influencer.
Am I to believe these Cook 1,2,3 positions from Hotels is what Elon and Vivek are talking about? They were looking for engineers, IT security and other very high tech skills workers and not line cooks.
My point is that H1Bs are not for the talent that Elon and others are claiming to hire. It's people to replace our children for half pay. And like I said above I was unaware at how bad it was being abused.
I say instead of doubling H1Bs we cut them.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
I work in one of the fields that would be most strongly effected by this.
And I say "if you can find someone who can do my job better and is willing to work cheaper, hire them".
I don't care where they are.
The H1B stuff just means that they'll import the cheap guy instead of outsourcing the job to India or wherever.
We're better off with the guy living and working here than we are with him living and working there. Even if he sends half his paycheck out of the country, he's still paying taxes and spenine. the other half of it here. Half is better than none.
Trying to "keep the job" for someone is just going to throw up artificial barriers that never work and tend to cause more problems than they solve.
We've got a massive surplus of slackers, incompetent, and freeloaders. Any opportunity to import smart hard workers should be taken advantage of.