Not sure if any of you are following the feud between our comptroller and county executive, but this just went up today in an attempt to disarm the comptroller. Yet the county executive, who had these signs put up requested 24/7 armed guards by sheriffs about 1.5 years ago when he got scared by someone. The county spent over $100k for this security. Bottom line is I don’t see how the sign has any legal teeth to it. We all know the penal law says permits are valid despite any local laws or regulations. Seems like a request to me designed to scare off less informed people.
Erie County No Guns Signs
- Thread starter Chevusa
- Start date
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Yep I’ve been following it. I think it’s pretty comical.
What do you make of the signs? Obviously put up at the direction of the county executive. Totally unenforceable?
I don’t think there is one. Do you know of one?
Lol, no, of course there isn't. Was my point!
Didn’t think so but something things don’t come across right when you read them. As far as I know you can walk right into a courtroom with your gun and despite any signs that may be up you aren’t breaking any laws. Obviously federal courts would be the exception.
I know this is about the signs but...
Someone should point out to him and the county that SCOTUS says the police don't have a duty to protect us. They should not be wasting taxpayer funds on him. He has two choices - pay for his own security or get in line like the rest of us and jump through hoops to get s permit and protect himself.
Someone should point out to him and the county that SCOTUS says the police don't have a duty to protect us. They should not be wasting taxpayer funds on him. He has two choices - pay for his own security or get in line like the rest of us and jump through hoops to get s permit and protect himself.
I can't read.
*walks in*
No hablo ingles. This state is illegal friendly
Or “sorry didn’t see it. I’ll be done with my business and on my way shortly. Have a good one!”I can't read.
*walks in*
Also from my understanding in order to be trespassed from a public building you need to first be breaking a law. I’m not exact on that but I’m pretty sure, and the bar is much higher than say a store that is privately owned where they can just ask you to leave if they want to.
Marc Poloncarsz is a tool. I'm sure he had those signs installed specifically to harass Stefen Mychajliw. I think it would be priceless for the Sheriff to issue a letter to Mychajliw stating that in fact, he DID have the permission to carry inside the building and on the grounds. What would Poloncarsz be able to do about it ? Is it not the Sheriff's dept that provides security for the county building ? Tim Howard should issue the letter on the 6:00 news !
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I disagree.
The proper action is for all who encounter this to file criminal complaints against him for coercion in the 3rd degree.
And police or govt people told to create, post, or enforce that sign can have a valid complaint for felony coercion in the first degree.
Not kidding.
Laws have teeth.
Use them. That guy needs a perp walk.
Section 135.60 Coercion in the third degree
Coercion in the third degree
A person is guilty of coercion in the third degree when he or she compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from engaging in, or to abstain from engaging in conduct in which he or she has a legal right to engage, or compels or induces a person to join a group, organization or criminal enterprise which such latter person has a right to abstain from joining, by means of instilling in him or her a fear that, if the demand is not complied with, the actor or another will:
1. Cause physical injury to a person; or
2. Cause damage to property; or
3. Engage in other conduct constituting a crime; or
4. Accuse some person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against him or her; or
5. Expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, tending to subject some person to hatred, contempt or ridicule; or
6. Cause a strike, boycott or other collective labor group action injurious to some person's business; except that such a threat shall not be deemed coercive when the act or omission compelled is for the benefit of the group in whose interest the actor purports to act; or
7. Testify or provide information or withhold testimony or information with respect to another's legal claim or defense; or
8. Use or abuse his or her position as a public servant by performing some act within or related to his or her official duties, or by failing or refusing to perform an official duty, in such manner as to affect some person adversely; or
9. Perform any other act which would not in itself materially benefit the actor but which is calculated to harm another person materially with respect to his or her health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships.
Coercion in the third degree is a class A misdemeanor.
1. Cause physical injury to a person; or
2. Cause damage to property; or
3. Engage in other conduct constituting a crime; or
4. Accuse some person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against him or her; or
5. Expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, tending to subject some person to hatred, contempt or ridicule; or
6. Cause a strike, boycott or other collective labor group action injurious to some person's business; except that such a threat shall not be deemed coercive when the act or omission compelled is for the benefit of the group in whose interest the actor purports to act; or
7. Testify or provide information or withhold testimony or information with respect to another's legal claim or defense; or
8. Use or abuse his or her position as a public servant by performing some act within or related to his or her official duties, or by failing or refusing to perform an official duty, in such manner as to affect some person adversely; or
9. Perform any other act which would not in itself materially benefit the actor but which is calculated to harm another person materially with respect to his or her health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships.
Coercion in the third degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Section 135.65 Coercion in the first degree
Coercion in the first degree
A person is guilty of coercion in the first degree when he or she commits the crime of coercion in the third degree, and when:
1. He or she commits such crime by instilling in the victim a fear that he or she will cause physical injury to a person or cause damage to property; or
2. He or she thereby compels or induces the victim to:
(a) Commit or attempt to commit a felony; or
(b) Cause or attempt to cause physical injury to a person; or
(c) Violate his or her duty as a public servant.
Coercion in the first degree is a class D felony.
1. He or she commits such crime by instilling in the victim a fear that he or she will cause physical injury to a person or cause damage to property; or
2. He or she thereby compels or induces the victim to:
(a) Commit or attempt to commit a felony; or
(b) Cause or attempt to cause physical injury to a person; or
(c) Violate his or her duty as a public servant.
Coercion in the first degree is a class D felony.
Carlos Hathcock
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Just because I wear a sign saying I have a 12" cock doesn't make it so.
I think it is disgusting, comical as well.
The County is bike and these two retards are going at each other like they are five years old.
Month if January, the county paid out nearly five million in overtime to one department.
Wanna go after polancarz? Show the tax payers the wasted money spent!
Not that it makes a huge difference...
I believe Stefan was deputized a while back with the sheriff's office. He Carry's a badge.
These signs mean even less.
I believe Stefan was deputized a while back with the sheriff's office. He Carry's a badge.
These signs mean even less.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
Unfortunately since many laws in NY aren't enforced, or done so in a distorted manner like the gravity knife laws, there is not much we can without direct initiatives which allow the people to call a vote on a topic they desire.
Afaik NY is one of the strictest states around this, while Cali surprisingly is not. This is why Newsom was running scared when the total signatures required to call a vote on repealing him was nearing close to being reached.
NY only allows what they deem "constitutional" to be referred by the legislature, and only by enough signatures. Meaning they can just block the will of the people, if they so desire, by not putting the popular vote up in the first place. They are the gatekeepers to what can and can't be put to a popular vote. At least, that is my understanding.
Basically, they've stripped the teeth and will of the people in NY to make our job even harder. So we're really only left with things like economic reprisals as a tool to fight legislation we don't like, unfortunately.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
you beat me to that .. tax payers should never fund that .. unless the govt is going to send me/us .. a free gun and 1k of rounds for it in the mail every Month ..
Same with FUAC
I can't read.
*walks in*
Just wait.
Next they will seal off all other entrances/exits, force everyone to use one entrance, where they will place a metal detector run by, you guessed it, two armed police officers.
Just like supposedly gun-friendly Orleans County did.
Now, to use DMV or many other public services, I must disarm and leave myself vulnerable.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I think it’s unenforceable for immediate arrest but they can throw you out like everywhere else. Although NYS is one of say 13 states I think where lower governments can pass laws that are stricter than state laws. So erie county could make it a crime. They haven’t yet that I know of but I’d say it’s coming.
Not sure on your 2 points. To be trespassed from a public building you need to be breaking the law. You can’t simply be asked to leave like you can at a privately owned building if you aren’t doing anything wrong. On the second point the licensing law specifically says something about your permit being valid even if local laws or regulations say it isn’t. It’s a pre-emption from other stricter laws. I’d have to look at it for exact wording but it has that same effect essentially.
Poloncarz is a whiney puss I hate him.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I walk right in the Erie county DMV with my gun and knife. No one is watching the door.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I’d sure like the see the text on these two points.
People are asked to leave public property all the time for not breaking laws. Protests with made up curfews are a great point. You have the right to protest or assemble. How about being in a park past dusk. What’s dusk anyway?
About your permit it also says can be revoked at anytime. So maybe walking into an Erie county park with your pistol might not be a crime but you can lose your permit. Will that happen? Probably not.
I found the term and an article on it. It’s call pre-emption as you mentioned above. 44 states don’t allow this. 6 states do oh and you guessed it NYS is one of them. I wish your statement was true but NYS makes us a laughing stock again. If this wasn’t allowed NYC would not have the regulations they do and we could legally carry our pistols into NYC. We all know that’s not the case.
In Much of the Country, Cities Can’t Enact Their Own Gun Laws
Here’s what you need to know about NRA-backed preemption laws, which limit local regulation of firearms.
www.thetrace.org
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Being asked to leave and having the lawful authority to trespass someone are two separate things. A cop can ask you to do anything they wish. It is up to you to politely decline.I’d sure like the see the text on these two points.
People are asked to leave public property all the time for not breaking laws. Protests with made up curfews are a great point. You have the right to protest or assemble. How about being in a park past dusk. What’s dusk anyway?
About your permit it also says can be revoked at anytime. So maybe walking into an Erie county park with your pistol might not be a crime but you can lose your permit. Will that happen? Probably not.
I found the term and an article on it. It’s call pre-emption as you mentioned above. 44 states don’t allow this. 6 states do oh and you guessed it NYS is one of them. I wish your statement was true but NYS makes us a laughing stock again. If this wasn’t allowed NYC a would not have the regulations they do and we could legally carry our pistols into NYC. We all know that’s not the case.
In Much of the Country, Cities Can’t Enact Their Own Gun Laws
Here’s what you need to know about NRA-backed preemption laws, which limit local regulation of firearms.
I’ll have to look into the public building trespass more but the bar is not the same as a private building where a person licensed or privileged can ask you to leave at any time for no reason at all.
Protests and curfews are also different. In those cases police deem it an unlawful assembly and clear it. These things are spelled out in the law somewhere and certain things have to happen before they have the lawful authority to call it.
Parks have written rules you have to follow. Making up a sign and putting it on a door doesn’t make it an official rule or policy, especially when the penal law says they cannot restrict your carry beyond your valid permit.
Maybe a LEO can chime in so I don’t have to look this stuff up. I’m not claiming to be an expert but I know there are differences.
Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
They're like watching Ren and Stimpy.