Federal judge upholds the firing of a Chicago teacher for refusing to use preferred pronouns

[Saltwater60]

Interesting…. So what happens when people in general call me a racist or homophobe for not going to BLM or pride protests, will they be fired since I’m neither?

Federal judge backs firing of Indiana teacher who refused to use transgender students' names, pronouns | Fox News

Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court's decision on Friday

www.foxnews.com

 

[OwnTheRide]

Seems like the right decision to me. His rights were not violated, primarily because his religious convictions do not in any way prohibit calling people by the name or pronouns they choose. His employer set a standard that they expect all employees to follow. He had three choices: follow the rules of his employer, quit, or be fired. He made his choice.

Show me where in the bible it says that you shall address men as he/him and women as she/her.

I certainly don't support legally mandated language. I do support the right of employers to set standards for their employees. It's sort of an extension of property rights. I can make it a rule that every person on my property must be addressed as "little piggy" and eject anyone who refuses to comply. Similarly, as an employer, I can mandate how my employees will greet my customers/clients, including addressing everyone as "little piggy" if I so desire, and fire anyone who refuses.

 

[repete]

"Some students alleged the move created an uncomfortable classroom experience and singled out students who identified as transgender and reported their concerns"

So let me get this straight, They wanted to be called they/them, she/her, he/him, zim dim and dumber but thought being called by a last name "singled them out??? WTF, does anyone else see the irony?

 

[John Stark]

Seems like the right decision to me. His rights were not violated, primarily because his religious convictions do not in any way prohibit calling people by the name or pronouns they choose. His employer set a standard that they expect all employees to follow. He had three choices: follow the rules of his employer, quit, or be fired. He made his choice.

Show me where in the bible it says that you shall address men as he/him and women as she/her.

I certainly don't support legally mandated language. I do support the right of employers to set standards for their employees. It's sort of an extension of property rights. I can make it a rule that every person on my property must be addressed as "little piggy" and eject anyone who refuses to comply. Similarly, as an employer, I can mandate how my employees will greet my customers/clients, including addressing everyone as "little piggy" if I so desire, and fire anyone who refuses.

Hit the joy juice a little early today?

 

[byron]

School district to hear from public after superintendent candidate lost job for greeting 2 females as 'ladies'

Easthampton School Committee to host a public meeting after superintendent candidate Vito Perrone lost job offer for using term "ladies" in an email that was deemed a "microaggression."

www.yahoo.com

 

[Acer-m14]

Judge should be removed ..

its compelled speech and unconstitutional


lets just call everyone we meet .. hello asshole .. no pronouns needed .. same thing compelled speech

 

[spat]

Seems like the right decision to me. His rights were not violated, primarily because his religious convictions do not in any way prohibit calling people by the name or pronouns they choose. His employer set a standard that they expect all employees to follow. He had three choices: follow the rules of his employer, quit, or be fired. He made his choice.

Show me where in the bible it says that you shall address men as he/him and women as she/her.

I certainly don't support legally mandated language. I do support the right of employers to set standards for their employees. It's sort of an extension of property rights. I can make it a rule that every person on my property must be addressed as "little piggy" and eject anyone who refuses to comply. Similarly, as an employer, I can mandate how my employees will greet my customers/clients, including addressing everyone as "little piggy" if I so desire, and fire anyone who refuses.

You'd be right if he worked for a private institution.

Standards are different when your employer is the government.

The government as an employer has a duty to make their standards logical and not make arbitrary restrictions. Especially ridiculous ones.

So, if your private employer requires clown shoes and a squeaky nose as part of the dress code for their office staff, that's their business.

When government does it to theirs however, the taxpayers should demand that the dipshidiot who wrote the policy should be fired.

 

[Acer-m14]

So, if your private employer requires clown shoes and a squeaky nose as part of the dress code for their office staff, that's their business.

but what if they get Govt Funding too ?

 

[spat]

but what if they get Govt Funding too ?

One of the hallmarks of acutal fascism is the blurring of the line between government and private corporations.

Our lines are very blurry indeed.

 

[Saltwater60]

Seems like the right decision to me. His rights were not violated, primarily because his religious convictions do not in any way prohibit calling people by the name or pronouns they choose. His employer set a standard that they expect all employees to follow. He had three choices: follow the rules of his employer, quit, or be fired. He made his choice.

Show me where in the bible it says that you shall address men as he/him and women as she/her.

I certainly don't support legally mandated language. I do support the right of employers to set standards for their employees. It's sort of an extension of property rights. I can make it a rule that every person on my property must be addressed as "little piggy" and eject anyone who refuses to comply. Similarly, as an employer, I can mandate how my employees will greet my customers/clients, including addressing everyone as "little piggy" if I so desire, and fire anyone who refuses.

The problem with this is some of these kids change what they think they are daily or even multiple times daily so this could be used to fire anyone kids don’t like. This isn’t easy either. My wife works with a they/them and wants to respect said women’s pronouns and she’s gotten it wrong many times. She even went so far as to put post it notes saying Kim is they/them. I see why it’s hard because I walked by one day and saw her face on a webinar and she’s a 10/10. This women has been gracious about it but if these kids are changing all the time how would you ever get it right?
I personally would just call people by name to avoid this BS but they even change their names sometimes with their pronouns. I also don’t think it’s as cut and dry on the religious side of things. I don’t care and I respect everyone that’s respectful to me because I see it as loving others. I just went to a store and a man who was flaming shy helped me out. He was great, helpful and knowledgeable. If I go that route I would seek out his advice when buying again and he was nice and respectful.

 

[John Stark]

You'd be right if he worked for a private institution.

Standards are different when your employer is the government.

No he would not be right, and neither are you.

 

[spat]

No he would not be right, and neither are you.

A private company can set whatever standards it wants as a condition of employment.

If burger world requires you to say "burger world, home of the best burger in the world" every time you mention them while at work, they have every right to fire you for just saying "burger world" instead.

The vast majority of the US has "at will" employment, which means your employer can terminate the relationship at any time, same as you can. They don't even have to tell you why.

It's only illegal to do so for a few specific reasons, but generally you can get fired for any reason your employer wants to. "Sorry, we're getting rid of everyone with too many consonants in their name, have a nice life".

And that is the right way for that to work (for private employers). Employment is a business relationship, and you can quit anytime, so can they. I would even say the exceptions shouldn't exist.

 

[John Stark]

A private company can set whatever standards it wants as a condition of employment.

If burger world requires you to say "burger world, home of the best burger in the world" every time you mention them while at work, they have every right to fire you for just saying "burger world" instead.

The vast majority of the US has "at will" employment, which means your employer can terminate the relationship at any time, same as you can. They don't even have to tell you why.

It's only illegal to do so for a few specific reasons, but generally you can get fired for any reason your employer wants to. "Sorry, we're getting rid of everyone with too many consonants in their name, have a nice life".

And that is the right way for that to work (for private employers). Employment is a business relationship, and you can quit anytime, so can they. I would even say the exceptions shouldn't exist.

Your desire to live in a libertarian utopia has fuck all to do with the law and religious rights, whether for a government employee or an employee of a private business.

Its a matter of Federal law. This man will handily win his lawsuit against the school district on the grounds of religious discrimination, as long as he has competent legal representation.

And he would win it against a private company easily as well, as long as that company employs a certain number of people.

His sincerely held religious belief trumps that bullshit you're spewing.

 

[spat]

Your desire to live in a libertarian utopia has fuck all to do with the law and religious rights, whether for a government employee or an employee of a private business.

Its a matter of Federal law. This man will handily win his lawsuit against the school district on the grounds of religious discrimination, as long as he has competent legal representation.

And he would win it against a private company easily as well, as long as that company employs a certain number of people.

His sincerely held religious belief trumps that bullshit you're spewing.

Good luck pitting Christian religious freedom vs gender theory in a modern court room.

The law that you are citing protects both equally, but we all know which is favored right now.

Maybe if he was a Muslim he could win that, but of course he wouldn't have been fired if he was.

 

[John Stark]

Good luck pitting Christian religious freedom vs gender theory in a modern court room.

The law that you are citing protects both equally, but we all know which is favored right now.

Maybe if he was a Muslim he could win that, but of course he wouldn't have been fired if he was.

Judge orders Southwest Airlines to reinstate Christian flight attendant fired over pro-life views

A federal court has ordered Southwest Airlines to reinstate a flight attendant the company terminated after she objected to the use of union dues to fund political causes that go against her deeply

www.christianpost.com

 

[Jmac00]

Judge should be removed ..

its compelled speech and unconstitutional


lets just call everyone we meet .. hello asshole .. no pronouns needed .. same thing compelled speech

EVERYONES pronoun is now FUCKER. if thats a problem, let me know, I have several adjectives I can use

 

[subsonic]

Show me where in the bible it says that you shall address men as he/him and women as she/her.

You don't have to read very far. "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27. And again in chapter 5.

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." Deuteronomy 22:5

I certainly don't support legally mandated language. I do support the right of employers to set standards for their employees.

This is a government employer, requiring a teacher to endorse genderqueer ideology in a public school classroom, where compulsory education of children occurs. The government is forcing the teacher to endorse and model gender ideology and forcing children to be indoctrinated in it.

 

[spat]

Judge orders Southwest Airlines to reinstate Christian flight attendant fired over pro-life views

A federal court has ordered Southwest Airlines to reinstate a flight attendant the company terminated after she objected to the use of union dues to fund political causes that go against her deeply

www.christianpost.com

Yes, Christians vs political donations, Christians win, even in today's very anti Christian environment. Politicians are just the lowest of the low, so everyone beats then.

But, Christians vs Gender theory, you really want to bet on the courts siding with the Christians today ?

 

[tirwin1]

Are you f***ing kidding me with this nonsense? Another sign of society in decay.

 

[Acer-m14]

EVERYONES pronoun is now FUCKER. if thats a problem, let me know, I have several adjectives I can use

works for me .. hey you fucker get to work ..

no he she it him hers needed LOL

 

[Willyone]

works for me .. hey you fucker get to work ..

no he she it him hers needed LOL

"hey fucker, how ya do'n" ... "hey fucker, wazzup". Hell, I've been addressing friends and some family members as *fucker* for years and years

 

[Acer-m14]

omg i forgot the BTO song Hey you lol

 

[OwnTheRide]

You don't have to read very far. "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27. And again in chapter 5.

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." Deuteronomy 22:5

Nothing you posted instructs you in regards to which pronoun you must use when referring to another person, or prohibits you from using nontraditional pronouns. IMO, this position works against your actual interests... attempting to extend religious protections into areas they don't exist could eventually result in a reduction of said religious protections.

As for the point expressed by you and others that this is different because it is a public sector employer, well, this is just one of several cases that suggests your respective positions are incorrect.

 

[Saltwater60]

Nothing you posted instructs you in regards to which pronoun you must use when referring to another person, or prohibits you from using nontraditional pronouns. IMO, this position works against your actual interests... attempting to extend religious protections into areas they don't exist could eventually result in a reduction of said religious protections.

As for the point expressed by you and others that this is different because it is a public sector employer, well, this is just one of several cases that suggests your respective positions are incorrect.

And the constitution doesn’t tell you exactly what you can and can’t do either.
What I would do is I would say what name do you want to be called and just forget about the pronoun thing. If you want to be called Jim, Jill or whatever I’ll call you that. My work has encouraged us to put our pronouns in our email and I will refuse to do it. If they insist I will put my name there and say that’s what I prefer. If that doesn’t help me then o don’t know and maybe they will fire me. If so I leave NYS and never look back.

 

[OwnTheRide]

And the constitution doesn’t tell you exactly what you can and can’t do either.

The point is that attempting to extend religious protections to reinforce political positions is likely to result in an erosion of protections for things that are actual tenets of said religion. No one is going to go to hell for respecting someone else's preferred pronouns. Be careful about pretending otherwise lest we risk losing protections for the things that might actually send someone to hell.*

(* - pretending such a thing actually exists)

 

[Saltwater60]

The point is that attempting to extend religious protections to reinforce political positions is likely to result in an erosion of protections for things that are actual tenets of said religion. No one is going to go to hell for respecting someone else's preferred pronouns. Be careful about pretending otherwise lest we risk losing protections for the things that might actually send someone to hell.*

(* - pretending such a thing actually exists)

Maybe and maybe not. Not trying to be offensive here but I don’t think you’re the guy that decides who gets into heaven.
I could see him saying it’s against his religion because using made up pronouns supports and promotes being transgendered, gay, bi or whatever the terms are these days and that would be against one’s religion.
As said in the past a good way around it is to ask what name said person wants to be called and use that. That’s what I would do and that’s what I’d be comfortable with doing. I think that respects both sides of the equation because many people have nicknames and it could be treated as that.

 

[subsonic]

Nothing you posted instructs you in regards to which pronoun you must use when referring to another person, or prohibits you from using nontraditional pronouns. IMO, this position works against your actual interests... attempting to extend religious protections into areas they don't exist could eventually result in a reduction of said religious protections.

Neither you, the government, or any other unbeliever gets to tell me how to practice my faith or how I should pervert the word of God. Weak! Repent and do better.

Maybe and maybe not. Not trying to be offensive here but I don’t think you’re the guy that decides who gets into heaven.

Yep!

I could see him saying it’s against his religion because using made up pronouns supports and promotes being transgendered, gay, bi or whatever the terms are these days and that would be against one’s religion.

And it is also lying.

As said in the past a good way around it is to ask what name said person wants to be called and use that. That’s what I would do and that’s what I’d be comfortable with doing. I think that respects both sides of the equation because many people have nicknames and it could be treated as that.

A Virginia teacher did that and was fired anyway back in 2018:

A teacher says he was fired for refusing to use male pronouns for a transgender student | CNN

A Virginia teacher has filed a lawsuit saying he was wrongfully fired for refusing to use male pronouns for a transgender student.

www.cnn.com

It's bake the cake, use their pronouns, and celebrate their degeneracy, bigot!

 

[Saltwater60]

Neither you, the government, or any other unbeliever gets to tell me how to practice my faith or how I should pervert the word of God. Weak! Repent and do better.

Yep!

And it is also lying.

A Virginia teacher did that and was fired anyway back in 2018:

A teacher says he was fired for refusing to use male pronouns for a transgender student | CNN

A Virginia teacher has filed a lawsuit saying he was wrongfully fired for refusing to use male pronouns for a transgender student.

www.cnn.com

It's bake the cake, use their pronouns, and celebrate their degeneracy, bigot!

Very interesting on the lying aspect and I never thought of that but correct. I had no idea this happened and I wonder the outcome.

 

[subsonic]

Very interesting on the lying aspect and I never thought of that but correct. I had no idea this happened and I wonder the outcome.

He was fired in December 2018, sued in 2019, it was dismissed, he lost an appeal, and it was argued before the Virginia Supreme Court last November. That appeal has apparently not been ruled on yet.

The Alliance Defending Freedom has six other "teacher pronoun" lawsuits they are handling, which is the tip of the iceberg given that's only lawsuits taken on by one group.

 

[Saltwater60]

He was fired in December 2018, sued in 2019, it was dismissed, he lost an appeal, and it was argued before the Virginia Supreme Court last November. That appeal has apparently not been ruled on yet.

The Alliance Defending Freedom has six other "teacher pronoun" lawsuits they are handling, which is the tip of the iceberg given that's only lawsuits taken on by one group.

Thanks for the update.