Federal student loan repayments to restart

[spat]

There needs to be controls put in both sides of the coin. No loans for pointless degrees but in the flip side of someone can’t help you financially there is no way you can afford college these days.
Myron goes to UB and his schedule is all over the place he can not work during the semester outside of Saturday and Sunday but he has struggled to find anyone will to hire him for less than 4 days per week. Another kids I know are complaining about the same.

The solution to run away costs is *not* to pass them on to the taxpayers.

That's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

You need to ask yourself *why* the cost of a college degree has risen at 4x the rate of inflation for the last 50 years.

In the 1970s a degree was affordable for most people *without* government assistance.

Then the feds decided to "help" with student loans, and academia just saw $$$ and costs skyrocketed.

There is absolutely no reason at all that a math or history degree costs anywhere near what it does, or any more than it did in 1960 (inflation adjusted).

Fix the root problem. "Taxpayer funded" is a recipe for disaster for *anything* that is "too expensive".

 

[SomeSoldier]

Highly disagree with the notion that college degrees are a waste, but there are plenty of people who waste their time in college, and/or choose degrees with very limited employment potential. A STEM degree will give a person a big leg up. While I will agree that a person who knows what they are doing (ex: coding) can get by without a degree, they will have a much harder time getting their foot in the door and will constantly be playing catch-up, salary-wise, when they do.

A colleague of mine has no degree, but he can code circles around me (and pretty much anyone else) all day long. He started with this company a few years before me, but I'm two levels above him and have had a bigger paycheck since forever. I also came right in as an employee, while he had to backdoor his way in as a contractor who eventually became an employee. He would have a much harder time finding employment at another company than I would, and would likely need to take a backdoor route again if he were to.

This difference all comes down to degrees.

I came out of college maybe $30k in debt (went the CC/SUNY route for my undergrad work), but I more than made up for that, salary-wise, in just the first year or two, compared to my colleague. Had my employer pay for my graduate degree from Cornell, making me even more marketable. My colleague doesn't have that option as they don't pay for undergrad degrees.

Is all of this fair? No. Does it make sense? Not entirely, though a degree does establish an implied baseline of know-how, which makes hiring that person less risky. But, this is the way things are done. You have to play the game by the rules that are set. I had a mentor once tell me that the college degree was less about the education than it was showing that the potential employee could put the work in to succeed at significant challenges.

Plus, college was an absolute riot. I had absolutely no idea it would be that much fun, and I undoubtedly learned a ton while having the time of my life. I look back on those years with great fondness and confidence that I made a good investment.

That said, college is not for everyone, and this is where I think we falter. Guidance counselors seem to want to push everyone to college, when the reality is that it will just be a waste of time and money for many. People need to approach college with the understanding that the purpose of being there is to improve your employment prospects. Going beyond the traditional "art degree is a waste" example: I think going to college to be a teacher is a waste (though less so)... something that should only be done by people who have an actual desire to teach. It's not a lucrative field, though it does tend to offer employment stability.

Also, trades are not a bad thing in the least. I know lots of guys in various construction-related jobs that make money hand over fist. Plumbers and HVAC professionals can do quite well, for example, and are always in high demand.

At the end of the day what did your degree cost you, including interest? Your coworker didn't have that debt. Now take that debt from your pay and compare to his. Are you really that much farther ahead?

 

[SomeSoldier]

College is a scam. I was making $60k a year before I had my degree. The only reason I bothered with a degree is to play the game and yes it is a game and the Army paid for it.

I ran circles around most of my professors. There knowledge was outdated, they taught concepts, no real world skills. Also the waste of time taking classes that have zero benefit to my profession. Kids could be out of college with half the debt if they would stop requiring 13th century literature.

So anyone coming out of college was at a disadvantage to anyone that was working in the field already putting tools on their belt.

Also the reason college is so expensive is because the gov got involved and started subsidizing. Only the colleges benefited from that move. Probably done intentionally to produce more brainwashed liberals.

 

[Depick]

The solution to run away costs is *not* to pass them on to the taxpayers.

That's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

You need to ask yourself *why* the cost of a college degree has risen at 4x the rate of inflation for the last 50 years.

In the 1970s a degree was affordable for most people *without* government assistance.

Then the feds decided to "help" with student loans, and academia just saw $$$ and costs skyrocketed.

There is absolutely no reason at all that a math or history degree costs anywhere near what it does, or any more than it did in 1960 (inflation adjusted).

Fix the root problem. "Taxpayer funded" is a recipe for disaster for *anything* that is "too expensive".

I completely agree! Nearly everything the government touches turns to shit.

I despise the idea of taxpayer funded bailouts.

 

[OwnTheRide]

At the end of the day what did your degree cost you, including interest? Your coworker didn't have that debt. Now take that debt from your pay and compare to his. Are you really that much farther ahead?

I'll try to tabulate the cost, but the tl;dr is that yes, I came out way ahead. All numbers are rounded estimates, of course.

• $30,000 - debt I was left with after college
• $5,000 - interest paid on that debt
• $5,000 - money paid out of pocket during school (books, etc)
• $15,000 - opportunity cost (I presumably could have had jobs that paid more while I was in school)

That last one is a stretch, I was working full time throughout college, but I assume I could have made more if I could have found a single, full-time job and put the time and effort into working my way up. But, worth adding to consideration.

So that's around $55k. When I started working with my colleague, I was making about $15k more/yr than he was. So, within 4 years, I had earned enough to break even. In the 20 years since then, that earnings gap has only continued to grow as I moved up the ladder faster and obtained a graduate degree (which he was ineligible to do, since he had no undergrad degree). I now make about $50k more/yr than he does. Let's average that out to $30k/yr over the 20 years, so $600k more in earnings, much of which I plowed into savings, which earned lots of interest over the years... I'd estimate another $400k. So, right now, I've earned about $1m more than he has, doing the same job (that he does better). I've always been 1-2 promotion levels above his. And this story isn't over - we still have somewhere between 10 and 20 years of career ahead of us. if this trend holds, then we're looking at another $2m+ differential in wealth generation opportunities.

Other factors could have changed that in either direction, for example if either of us had decided to climb the corporate ladder rather than remain engineers, or bounced around between companies (which tends to inflate salary when done right). But, neither of us opted to do so, so it's a fairly apples-to-apples comparison.

There's also the hidden elements. We've both been with the same employer this entire time, but had we been moving around between companies, it would have been much easier, and more lucrative, for me. He would have had more difficulty getting interviews, lower salary offers, etc. As mentioned above, I was able to obtain a graduate degree from a prestigious school on my employer's dime, which opened up more opportunities.

Obviously, this isn't universal. My degrees were in high-demand, well-compensated fields. The same scale isn't going to apply to, say, art history majors, or teachers, LEOs, public servants, etc.

Also, keep in mind that this is comparing the career earnings of two engineers. Without that education, I'd likely be working construction or turning wrenches or something. So my total benefit of obtaining a degree is much, much more than the numbers we're talking about here.

Suffice it to say, my return on investment for college was massive. Once again, though, I have to point out that I chose a degree with significant employment opportunities that only grew over the years. That's really key. One has to approach college with that understanding, and choose a degree accordingly.

 

[Saltwater60]

I’d like to see some mandatory financial education in high schools or a mandatory class before a student loan can be obtained.

Anything that will show the borrower the long term effect and repercussions of those loans.

Maybe even a capped fixed interest rate.

Im assuming Myron is your son? I would say that is the hard part of being a student. I used to schedule as many classes as I could on either a MWF or TTH schedule. I would be at school sun up to sun down and work the other days. I used to sign up for online courses as well. I had an entire semester of all online classes once. It sucked but somehow I managed to get through. I’m sure he’ll figure something out.

Myron was supposed to be my son. I did the same as you did at community college and that worked out fantastic for me. UB is a different animal altogether. UB doesn’t care and they think it’s a privilege to let you in there. My son is a junior and he was able to get into 2 out of the five classes he needed this semester. Many times he has had classes at 9 am until noon then another class starting at 3 pm or so. Then on Thursday night he has a class until 6:30pm and all grades assignments are due for day so he comes home and does it immediately.
We make too much together anything at all so he can’t do the student jobs through the college and he is even accumulating interest on the loans he has while he’s in school. We are splitting the bill with him so it’s about $7,000 per year. Next year we will be doing the same for my youngest. So it’s about $1,500 per month. I can’t wait until they are done and my mortgage will be paid off very quickly after that. Then it’s all retirement with a boat and or a car for summer fun mixed in there.

 

[Saltwater60]

I'll try to tabulate the cost, but the tl;dr is that yes, I came out way ahead. All numbers are rounded estimates, of course.

• $30,000 - debt I was left with after college
• $5,000 - interest paid on that debt
• $5,000 - money paid out of pocket during school (books, etc)
• $15,000 - opportunity cost (I presumably could have had jobs that paid more while I was in school)

That last one is a stretch, I was working full time throughout college, but I assume I could have made more if I could have found a single, full-time job and put the time and effort into working my way up. But, worth adding to consideration.

So that's around $55k. When I started working with my colleague, I was making about $15k more/yr than he was. So, within 4 years, I had earned enough to break even. In the 20 years since then, that earnings gap has only continued to grow as I moved up the ladder faster and obtained a graduate degree (which he was ineligible to do, since he had no undergrad degree). I now make about $50k more/yr than he does. Let's average that out to $30k/yr over the 20 years, so $600k more in earnings, much of which I plowed into savings, which earned lots of interest over the years... I'd estimate another $400k. So, right now, I've earned about $1m more than he has, doing the same job (that he does better). I've always been 1-2 promotion levels above his. And this story isn't over - we still have somewhere between 10 and 20 years of career ahead of us. if this trend holds, then we're looking at another $2m+ differential in wealth generation opportunities.

Other factors could have changed that in either direction, for example if either of us had decided to climb the corporate ladder rather than remain engineers, or bounced around between companies (which tends to inflate salary when done right). But, neither of us opted to do so, so it's a fairly apples-to-apples comparison.

There's also the hidden elements. We've both been with the same employer this entire time, but had we been moving around between companies, it would have been much easier, and more lucrative, for me. He would have had more difficulty getting interviews, lower salary offers, etc. As mentioned above, I was able to obtain a graduate degree from a prestigious school on my employer's dime, which opened up more opportunities.

Obviously, this isn't universal. My degrees were in high-demand, well-compensated fields. The same scale isn't going to apply to, say, art history majors, or teachers, LEOs, public servants, etc.

Also, keep in mind that this is comparing the career earnings of two engineers. Without that education, I'd likely be working construction or turning wrenches or something. So my total benefit of obtaining a degree is much, much more than the numbers we're talking about here.

Suffice it to say, my return on investment for college was massive. Once again, though, I have to point out that I chose a degree with significant employment opportunities that only grew over the years. That's really key. One has to approach college with that understanding, and choose a degree accordingly.

Most times a college degree pays off in the end. For me I did community college and worked full time. My parents claimed me on their taxes and the return covered my college. Community college cost me nothing. I got my bachelors for $5,000 recently and just finished my masters. I don’t have $20,000 into my education and I have used it for every job I’ve ever had. Now I have a job that requires a masters degree and will make about $20,000 extra per year above the additional money I already had made for having my degree.
There are stupidly useless degrees that will never pay off but that’s on the moron selecting it.
My son’s degree will pay off. He’s doing water and soil stuff along with surveying and architecture stuff. His surveying is specific to environmental stuff and has a bit of engineering mixed in there. He will move onto get his masters as well and possibly in public health. He will have a really unique set of stuff.

 

[SomeSoldier]

I'll try to tabulate the cost, but the tl;dr is that yes, I came out way ahead. All numbers are rounded estimates, of course.

• $30,000 - debt I was left with after college
• $5,000 - interest paid on that debt
• $5,000 - money paid out of pocket during school (books, etc)
• $15,000 - opportunity cost (I presumably could have had jobs that paid more while I was in school)

That last one is a stretch, I was working full time throughout college, but I assume I could have made more if I could have found a single, full-time job and put the time and effort into working my way up. But, worth adding to consideration.

So that's around $55k. When I started working with my colleague, I was making about $15k more/yr than he was. So, within 4 years, I had earned enough to break even. In the 20 years since then, that earnings gap has only continued to grow as I moved up the ladder faster and obtained a graduate degree (which he was ineligible to do, since he had no undergrad degree). I now make about $50k more/yr than he does. Let's average that out to $30k/yr over the 20 years, so $600k more in earnings, much of which I plowed into savings, which earned lots of interest over the years... I'd estimate another $400k. So, right now, I've earned about $1m more than he has, doing the same job (that he does better). I've always been 1-2 promotion levels above his. And this story isn't over - we still have somewhere between 10 and 20 years of career ahead of us. if this trend holds, then we're looking at another $2m+ differential in wealth generation opportunities.

Other factors could have changed that in either direction, for example if either of us had decided to climb the corporate ladder rather than remain engineers, or bounced around between companies (which tends to inflate salary when done right). But, neither of us opted to do so, so it's a fairly apples-to-apples comparison.

There's also the hidden elements. We've both been with the same employer this entire time, but had we been moving around between companies, it would have been much easier, and more lucrative, for me. He would have had more difficulty getting interviews, lower salary offers, etc. As mentioned above, I was able to obtain a graduate degree from a prestigious school on my employer's dime, which opened up more opportunities.

Obviously, this isn't universal. My degrees were in high-demand, well-compensated fields. The same scale isn't going to apply to, say, art history majors, or teachers, LEOs, public servants, etc.

Also, keep in mind that this is comparing the career earnings of two engineers. Without that education, I'd likely be working construction or turning wrenches or something. So my total benefit of obtaining a degree is much, much more than the numbers we're talking about here.

Suffice it to say, my return on investment for college was massive. Once again, though, I have to point out that I chose a degree with significant employment opportunities that only grew over the years. That's really key. One has to approach college with that understanding, and choose a degree accordingly.

I assuming you paid off your loans early for only 5k in interest. When did you attend 90's?

 

[GOPerfect]

Some degrees are good, others are not.

Career fields as well.

My last job, a degree was not not needed when I took the job, I left at over 100K per year. Some departments want college and they pat less. All depends.

 

[OwnTheRide]

I assuming you paid off your loans early for only 5k in interest. When did you attend 90's?

Yeah, late 90s. I didn't pay them off early, but there were many different loans with varying terms and they weren't eligible for consolidation, so most of them were paid off in the first 3-5 years. I might have underestimated the interest I paid, but I don't think it really changes anything.