Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
but I'm all for smart guns .. if i can have a CWIS ..
Firearm Enthusiasts Are Warming Up to Smart Guns
- Thread starter jimc
- Start date
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I bet if we take a poll here it will be a lot lower than 55% LOL.
And it'll be just as "scientific" as the poll those guys took of the people running the newsroom.
And it'll be just as "scientific" as the poll those guys took of the people running the newsroom.
pshift
.338 Win Mag
The only thing that is 'smart is the possibility that the system can be hacked (remotely) to disable your 'firearm' by the Government who probably has all of the encryption keys already for this. I will keep my manually activated and reliable firearms which will probably last about 50 years, needs no batteries, and is immune to EMP effect.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
no we aren'tIf people want them, and they end up on the market, that's fine with me. Just don't mandate them.
Firearm Enthusiasts Are Warming Up to Smart Guns
55% of gun owners and 39% of non-gun owners said they'd be comfortable using a gun utilizing the tech.gizmodo.com
EDIT: Changed the link to the article at Gizmodo's site, where you can see comments.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Doesn't even need to be hacked. Just jammed.
Jamming is much easier.
Hell, I bet a microwave oven with the door removed could disable one of these.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
Let the FBI and Secret Service carry them for 2 years. If it get's their stamp of approval after that, then maybe I'd think about possibly tossing around the idea of mildy warming up to handling one at my LGS to see if I like the way it fits my hand.
DamionMC
22lr
2 years? I would mandate that the every law enforcement officer, ed, State and local cop would need to carry them for at least 10 years, both on and off duty; no exceptions. Any exceptions that occur the clock would need to reset for another 10 years; and if any LEO is caught off-duty carrying a non-smart gun they would be instantly removed from the LEA and subject to a minimum of 20 years in prison - maybe if they were held accountable for the crimes they commit we American's would need such strict measures in place, but since we cannot trust the oath violators to not violate their oaths, this is the only way to protect Citizens.
DamionMC
22lr
maybe some are warming up to it... but probably not anyone who has ever had to deal with technology as a job./career and realizeall the daily failings of technology.
I am not a fan of this technology, facial/fingerprint recognition for a mechanical device such as a gun – this would be more accurately called a bio-imprinted password.
Essentially all this product has done has taken the fingerprint scan and/or facial scan and converted the biological information into a mathematical formula i.e. a hash value (see MD5) it won’t need an internet connection to run the cryptographic algorithm, the scans or the monitoring and storage of the values to compare against.
Now while this bio-recognition lock might be a product better versus with fumbling with a manual key lock or pin-pads in a middle of the night stressful situation, it still in my opinion has far more cons than pros.
Since most gun owners, expect to not only own keep their firearms for their lifetimes they also hope that they will bequeath their firearms to their family and still last for generations. This product given current technology puts battery replacement life at about once every 2-3 years and memory replacement at about every 10 years. Also this is a product that could be exposed to extreme environmental conditions, dropped, heat-humidity, rain, puddles etc how is the memory, electronics and battery protected to prevent damage.
Con#1 “Battery”: Regardless of how long a battery life it has it still at some point must be charged to be usable as designed; and with all rechargeable devices battery replacement will also be an issue and how is the memory of the “computer” managed with a dead or replaced battery. Keeping in mind that the battery could still be perfectly fine with over 300 to 500 charge cycles, but it could also fail sooner (how have they tested and gone through the battery manufacturer selection -cheapest and lowest quality or highest cost and most reliability) what kind of testing was performed to get the products anticipated life before replacement. – if the battery is damaged or being recharged what is protecting the owner from run away thermal issues.
Con#2 “Memory”: Depending on the memory and compression technology used can the stored hash values become corrupt over time, or lost? The electrical charge stored in a flash memory cells degrades over time, and will degrade much faster at extended temperatures; also the more you use a memory this type of memory cards, the more likely it is to degrade over time. A typical memory card can go through 10,000 to 1 million “write/erase” cycles before failing rates increase, but also sitting idle “cold” no electrical charge for extended periods will also cause corruption as the memory cells lose electrical charge. Also like the battery their is a finite physical age limit, typically 10 years. Keeping in mind that the memory could still be perfectly fine with over 2 million write/erase cycles and older then 10 years, but it could also fail sooner (how have they tested and gone through the memory manufacturer selection; their is a finite amount of times before it becomes unusable. -cheapest and lowest quality or highest cost and most reliability) what kind of testing was performed to get the products anticipated life before replacement.
Con#3 “motherboard”: If treated well and kept clean, a motherboard typically lasts between 10-20 years, though it is possible to last longer. This application of smart gun, could also put cleaning solvents and oils in contact with the motherboard(s) causing damage. Which means replacing the hardware with what will eventually become obsolete, and you may need to upgrade to the latest hardware.
Con#4 “reliability”: Facial and fingerprint recognition is vastly improved from a few years ago, but error rates are still high especially in the facial and in controlled settings are much more accurate then in real life scenarios. Also keep in mind that similarity scores and comparison thresholds to account for the false negative rates and false positive rates (families are going to look very similar – if your trying to prevent your daughter who looks a lot like her mom from accessing the gun, this could be a problem if the wife is the owner, or some other similar scenarios, like identical twins, etc. Then you have the recognition “racial” demographic biases, non-whites will find this product to have a much higher rate of false positives and will prevent the gun owner from accessing, especially in a need to defend type of situation.
Con#5 “quick to lock”: The manufacturer states that this product locks near immediately so anything from changing your hand grip location, changing the grip force from loose to tight, to switching hands temporarily and with the reliability factors, could lock out the owner when needed in a scenario where you are walking your house looking for the “source” of the late noise.
Con#6 “Software reliability and upgrades”: Since no one has been able to independently verify it at this moment we have to rely on the manufacturers statement that this is what they are doing and given their descriptions we can assume that they are probably doing what they claim they are. However, at some point we can trust but will need to verify; take the electronics apart and verify no Wi-Fi/Bluetooth or other radio communications chips or antennas are on the motherboard(s) and also to have a radio spectrum analyzer running to see if broadcasts are occurring. Also how is full manufacturer reset, or software updates (bugs/fixes) deployed when owners change in the case of reselling, or in the case of bequeathing to new a owner, or fixing a software flaw, or software algorithm improvements
Since initially learning about BioFire's biometric security capabilities, I have further researched the specifics of their 3D infrared facial recognition system. This technology scans and maps the precise contours of a user's face in three dimensions, creating a unique mathematical representation that functions as an authentication template.
While effective, there are some important caveats regarding facial hair, similar appearances amongst family members, and changes in weight or age. Specifically, facial hair like beards, mustaches, and masks can partially obscure the facial points of reference needed for matching templates. Infrared can penetrate hair follicles to map the underlying structure, but accuracy is reduced without a fully clear scan. For clean-shaven users who grow facial hair incrementally, performance may also decline between enrollment and authentication. Optimal accuracy relies on consistent hair states day-to-day.
Additionally, the system struggles to differentiate users with nearly identical facial geometry, including identical twins or very close relatives. The 3D mapping can discern subtle shape variances between similar faces, but there is potential for false positives among highly similar individuals. Changes in weight, age, or expressions can also reduce accuracy to a degree.
Incorporating facial recognition into the BioFire smart gun system provides advanced biometric security. However, the limitations around facial hair, consistent appearance, and distinguishing family members may reduce reliability among certain demographics like bearded men or twins. Supplementing with fingerprint scanning helps mitigate these factors. But for optimal performance, maintaining a steady facial hair state and re-enrolling after significant weight or age changes is advisable. Understanding both the capabilities and limitations of the technology is key for effective implementation.
Also the RFID is encrypted and hard to exploit, with that so ar BioFire has not publicly released the full technical specifications of the encryption used for the RFID tags in their biometric smart guns. So there is more guesswork involved, but it would be reasonable to assume that the minimum of AES-128 is being utilized; and for high-security applications AES-256 is more probable. While this assumption would reduce hacking risks, cloning RFID chip data, and signal jamming could impact the guns functions.
Another weakness for the concealed carrier could be that the RFID used by anyone to track the location of the gun or who in a room full of people may have concealed smart guns, all of this passively without breaking the encryption; the good guy with a concealed gun, might as well be open carrying and paint a target on themselves. Or may draw unwanted harassment from Law Enforcement who prefer to disarm innocent people or looking for an excuse to generate probable cause.
While BioFire has not disclosed the full encryption specifications for their onboard RFID system, it is reasonable to assume at minimum a 128-bit AES algorithm is used, with 256-bit being likely for optimal security. Though sans published confirmation, some risk of data and signal exploitation persists.
For instance, while difficult to crack AES-128+ encryption directly, techniques like RFID tag cloning or signal jamming could still disrupt authorized control functions. And even without breaking encryption, passive scanning of the RFID's radio emissions can reveal the presence and location of a concealed smart gun to an adversary.
This passive detection vulnerability could enable tracking of lawful concealed carriers against their will. It may also allow law enforcement or anti-gun establishments to easily identify armed citizens without probable cause. Those wishing to maintain discretion and privacy around legal concealed carry could face new hindrances.
Overall, BioFire's RFID system likely provides adequate security against most threats, but unverified details leave uncertainties. And inherent to any active radio technology are risks like tracking, spoofing, and interference that no encryption fully mitigates. More transparency and independent validation of the RFID implementations would build justified confidence in both security and privacy.
I am not a fan of this technology, facial/fingerprint recognition for a mechanical device such as a gun – this would be more accurately called a bio-imprinted password.
Essentially all this product has done has taken the fingerprint scan and/or facial scan and converted the biological information into a mathematical formula i.e. a hash value (see MD5) it won’t need an internet connection to run the cryptographic algorithm, the scans or the monitoring and storage of the values to compare against.
Now while this bio-recognition lock might be a product better versus with fumbling with a manual key lock or pin-pads in a middle of the night stressful situation, it still in my opinion has far more cons than pros.
Since most gun owners, expect to not only own keep their firearms for their lifetimes they also hope that they will bequeath their firearms to their family and still last for generations. This product given current technology puts battery replacement life at about once every 2-3 years and memory replacement at about every 10 years. Also this is a product that could be exposed to extreme environmental conditions, dropped, heat-humidity, rain, puddles etc how is the memory, electronics and battery protected to prevent damage.
Con#1 “Battery”: Regardless of how long a battery life it has it still at some point must be charged to be usable as designed; and with all rechargeable devices battery replacement will also be an issue and how is the memory of the “computer” managed with a dead or replaced battery. Keeping in mind that the battery could still be perfectly fine with over 300 to 500 charge cycles, but it could also fail sooner (how have they tested and gone through the battery manufacturer selection -cheapest and lowest quality or highest cost and most reliability) what kind of testing was performed to get the products anticipated life before replacement. – if the battery is damaged or being recharged what is protecting the owner from run away thermal issues.
Con#2 “Memory”: Depending on the memory and compression technology used can the stored hash values become corrupt over time, or lost? The electrical charge stored in a flash memory cells degrades over time, and will degrade much faster at extended temperatures; also the more you use a memory this type of memory cards, the more likely it is to degrade over time. A typical memory card can go through 10,000 to 1 million “write/erase” cycles before failing rates increase, but also sitting idle “cold” no electrical charge for extended periods will also cause corruption as the memory cells lose electrical charge. Also like the battery their is a finite physical age limit, typically 10 years. Keeping in mind that the memory could still be perfectly fine with over 2 million write/erase cycles and older then 10 years, but it could also fail sooner (how have they tested and gone through the memory manufacturer selection; their is a finite amount of times before it becomes unusable. -cheapest and lowest quality or highest cost and most reliability) what kind of testing was performed to get the products anticipated life before replacement.
Con#3 “motherboard”: If treated well and kept clean, a motherboard typically lasts between 10-20 years, though it is possible to last longer. This application of smart gun, could also put cleaning solvents and oils in contact with the motherboard(s) causing damage. Which means replacing the hardware with what will eventually become obsolete, and you may need to upgrade to the latest hardware.
Con#4 “reliability”: Facial and fingerprint recognition is vastly improved from a few years ago, but error rates are still high especially in the facial and in controlled settings are much more accurate then in real life scenarios. Also keep in mind that similarity scores and comparison thresholds to account for the false negative rates and false positive rates (families are going to look very similar – if your trying to prevent your daughter who looks a lot like her mom from accessing the gun, this could be a problem if the wife is the owner, or some other similar scenarios, like identical twins, etc. Then you have the recognition “racial” demographic biases, non-whites will find this product to have a much higher rate of false positives and will prevent the gun owner from accessing, especially in a need to defend type of situation.
Con#5 “quick to lock”: The manufacturer states that this product locks near immediately so anything from changing your hand grip location, changing the grip force from loose to tight, to switching hands temporarily and with the reliability factors, could lock out the owner when needed in a scenario where you are walking your house looking for the “source” of the late noise.
Con#6 “Software reliability and upgrades”: Since no one has been able to independently verify it at this moment we have to rely on the manufacturers statement that this is what they are doing and given their descriptions we can assume that they are probably doing what they claim they are. However, at some point we can trust but will need to verify; take the electronics apart and verify no Wi-Fi/Bluetooth or other radio communications chips or antennas are on the motherboard(s) and also to have a radio spectrum analyzer running to see if broadcasts are occurring. Also how is full manufacturer reset, or software updates (bugs/fixes) deployed when owners change in the case of reselling, or in the case of bequeathing to new a owner, or fixing a software flaw, or software algorithm improvements
Since initially learning about BioFire's biometric security capabilities, I have further researched the specifics of their 3D infrared facial recognition system. This technology scans and maps the precise contours of a user's face in three dimensions, creating a unique mathematical representation that functions as an authentication template.
While effective, there are some important caveats regarding facial hair, similar appearances amongst family members, and changes in weight or age. Specifically, facial hair like beards, mustaches, and masks can partially obscure the facial points of reference needed for matching templates. Infrared can penetrate hair follicles to map the underlying structure, but accuracy is reduced without a fully clear scan. For clean-shaven users who grow facial hair incrementally, performance may also decline between enrollment and authentication. Optimal accuracy relies on consistent hair states day-to-day.
Additionally, the system struggles to differentiate users with nearly identical facial geometry, including identical twins or very close relatives. The 3D mapping can discern subtle shape variances between similar faces, but there is potential for false positives among highly similar individuals. Changes in weight, age, or expressions can also reduce accuracy to a degree.
Incorporating facial recognition into the BioFire smart gun system provides advanced biometric security. However, the limitations around facial hair, consistent appearance, and distinguishing family members may reduce reliability among certain demographics like bearded men or twins. Supplementing with fingerprint scanning helps mitigate these factors. But for optimal performance, maintaining a steady facial hair state and re-enrolling after significant weight or age changes is advisable. Understanding both the capabilities and limitations of the technology is key for effective implementation.
Also the RFID is encrypted and hard to exploit, with that so ar BioFire has not publicly released the full technical specifications of the encryption used for the RFID tags in their biometric smart guns. So there is more guesswork involved, but it would be reasonable to assume that the minimum of AES-128 is being utilized; and for high-security applications AES-256 is more probable. While this assumption would reduce hacking risks, cloning RFID chip data, and signal jamming could impact the guns functions.
Another weakness for the concealed carrier could be that the RFID used by anyone to track the location of the gun or who in a room full of people may have concealed smart guns, all of this passively without breaking the encryption; the good guy with a concealed gun, might as well be open carrying and paint a target on themselves. Or may draw unwanted harassment from Law Enforcement who prefer to disarm innocent people or looking for an excuse to generate probable cause.
While BioFire has not disclosed the full encryption specifications for their onboard RFID system, it is reasonable to assume at minimum a 128-bit AES algorithm is used, with 256-bit being likely for optimal security. Though sans published confirmation, some risk of data and signal exploitation persists.
For instance, while difficult to crack AES-128+ encryption directly, techniques like RFID tag cloning or signal jamming could still disrupt authorized control functions. And even without breaking encryption, passive scanning of the RFID's radio emissions can reveal the presence and location of a concealed smart gun to an adversary.
This passive detection vulnerability could enable tracking of lawful concealed carriers against their will. It may also allow law enforcement or anti-gun establishments to easily identify armed citizens without probable cause. Those wishing to maintain discretion and privacy around legal concealed carry could face new hindrances.
Overall, BioFire's RFID system likely provides adequate security against most threats, but unverified details leave uncertainties. And inherent to any active radio technology are risks like tracking, spoofing, and interference that no encryption fully mitigates. More transparency and independent validation of the RFID implementations would build justified confidence in both security and privacy.
TEOTWAWKI inc.
.338 Win Mag
3 dead threads in a row!
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
with 600 million firearms on the market, "smart-guns" are not going to be a concern until Star date 2750.
To even consider a smart gun to be effective, *they* would have to remove ALL other type firearms from society. Thats going to be a major hurdle, and frankly, isn't going to work.
To even consider a smart gun to be effective, *they* would have to remove ALL other type firearms from society. Thats going to be a major hurdle, and frankly, isn't going to work.
technicalgadget
.223 Rem
I present to you the perfect hacking tool for Smart Gun technology.
HIghlander
.223 Rem
Don't forget the home built ones.
Which token fudd did they interview for this story