Fixed mag speed loader question

[Loworange88]

Hey everyone! I have a fixed mag AR and I bought a BF-10 loader to try out. Also I 3D printed a loader that looks a lot like the Mean Arms version. The AR is built with an ATI lower and the mag is a PMag gen 2 polymer 10 round. Fixed in place with Mean Arms lock.

it’s either operator error, or the top loader options are mechanically feeble. I can get both loaders to fill the mag with 9 rounds of .223 and the last round either doesn’t seat in the magazine at all, or it semi seats potentially causing a double feed or a full jam.

.300ACC is worse, and it actually seems like the rounds are forward seated in the magazine vs the back of the case being at the back of the magazine well. Generally I can get 5-8 rounds in andcan operate, but a full 10 isn’t so great.

Yes I know the top loaders suck in general as an option, I’m asking if anyone who uses them has anytips or pointers to make them run more reliably. Thanks in advance.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

1. Have you tried loading a full 10 in the mag by either removing the mag or taking the upper off and top loading by hand?
If so and you can't fit 10 in, then it's likely your mag. If you can fit 10 in without issue, I say that the problem could be with the loader itself but could also be that you are just not using enough force to load the mag with the BF10 or MEAN loader. Or you aren't lined up right.
I have the BF10 and have experienced the loader not loading the last round if I don't use the correct amount of force when squeezing the tabs and ramming the rounds into the gun. I have also experienced it giving me more issues with metal mags than Pmags.

Using those types of loaders takes some practice.

Also be sure not to over tighten your mag into the receiver. This can also cause cycling issues.

Hope this helps.

 

[Loworange88]

1. Have you tried loading a full 10 in the mag by either removing the mag or taking the upper off and top loading by hand?
If so and you can't fit 10 in, then it's likely your mag. If you can fit 10 in without issue, I say that the problem could be with the loader itself but could also be that you are just not using enough force to load the mag with the BF10 or MEAN loader. Or you aren't lined up right.
I have the BF10 and have experienced the loader not loading the last round if I don't use the correct amount of force when squeezing the tabs and ramming the rounds into the gun. I have also experienced it giving me more issues with metal mags than Pmags.

Using those types of loaders takes some practice.

Also be sure not to over tighten your mag into the receiver. This can also cause cycling issues.

Hope this helps.

i can load all ten rounds with no issues manually with the upper off the lower. The mag actually has a very small amount of wiggle room, and I have had minimal cycling and feeding issues, but not 100% without. I actually read right after I posted that Lancer mags are recommended by Bear Flag for the BF-10. I have another brand of polymer mag at home that I could try to swap out And see if that yields the same results.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Just buy a lancer magazine. That is what the company recommends after running tests on their own product. Trying to make another magazine work on a system that has to run flawless for you to not have feeding issues that aren’t easily fixed is counterproductive.

You are already limiting yourself by going fixed mag. You might as well go with a combination of parts that have been tested for reliability.

 

[Chevusa]

BF-10 specifies to use a Lancer mag. I had trouble then switched to Lancer and it has been 100% perfect ever since.

Lancer Systems L5 AWM Advanced Warfighter Mag AR-15 223 Remington,

The Lancer Systems L5 AWM Magazine is a polymer and steel hybrid that combines the best features of each material. The one-piece steel feed lip unit is...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Jchrisls]

I own both mean arms and bf loaders, and regularly use both at the range. I too have had some issues occasionally with the last round not being properly seated in the mag, but it was only during the early learning/ practice phase of using loaders. After nearly 1000 rounds the issue has almost disappeared. IME you can't be gentle when trying to load the mag, you have to use a quick downward motion to get them all loaded. I personally have chalked it up to the learning curve with loaders as the issue has since dissipated.

PS- after some use, I've grown fond of the Bear Flag ones over the mean arms. Beefier build quality, more intuitive with the full grip VS thumb system, nearly no rattling of the rounds when loaded ECT. If I had to do it all over again, all of my loaders would be BF.

 

[Chevusa]

I own both mean arms and bf loaders, and regularly use both at the range. I too have had some issues occasionally with the last round not being properly seated in the mag, but it was only during the early learning/ practice phase of using loaders. After nearly 1000 rounds the issue has almost disappeared. IME you can't be gentle when trying to load the mag, you have to use a quick downward motion to get them all loaded. I personally have chalked it up to the learning curve with loaders as the issue has since dissipated.

PS- after some use, I've grown fond of the Bear Flag ones over the mean arms. Beefier build quality, more intuitive with the full grip VS thumb system, nearly no rattling of the rounds when loaded ECT. If I had to do it all over again, all of my loaders would be BF.

I also don't like how the mean arms loader releases the bolt when you take it out.

 

[Jchrisls]

I also don't like how the mean arms loader releases the bolt when you take it out.

The 2.0 version no longer does that. I unfortunately own both versions, and like neither.

 

[Robin]

Just ordered some Bear Flag's! Thanks J!
Robin

 

[jw816]

I have been practicing with BF-10 with Lancer 10/20 mag and dummy rounds. It works like a champ. I think you need to use, at least, the BF-10 more than 20 times to get it runs smoothly. Your pushing action needs to be clean and forceful. If I have to modify the BF-10, I would extend the handles a bit longer and larger for easier operation.

 

[Robin]

Placed my order with a place called Botach and they sent me an email the order has shipped already! Damn, that's fast!!!!
Robin

 

[Jchrisls]

Just ordered some Bear Flag's! Thanks J!
Robin

Enjoy!

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Nothing like ramming it into the wrong hole.

 

[Chevusa]

I have been practicing with BF-10 with Lancer 10/20 mag and dummy rounds. It works like a champ. I think you need to use, at least, the BF-10 more than 20 times to get it runs smoothly. Your pushing action needs to be clean and forceful. If I have to modify the BF-10, I would extend the handles a bit longer and larger for easier operation.

They are designed to be carried in existing standard 30 round AR mag carriers.

 

[jw816]

In my experience, it will cause a problem usually in the last one or two rounds. I applied a small amount of white gun grease on the marked areas. It helps. Please see the photos.

 

[Chevusa]

In my experience, it will cause a problem usually in the last one or two rounds. I applied a small amount of white gun grease on the marked areas. It helps. Please see the photos.

View attachment 78699

View attachment 78700

Throw the grease away and install a Lancer mag.

 

[Jchrisls]

So some longer term personal observations and experience with both Mean arms and Bear Flag defense loaders.

I have owned both brands of loaders since obtaining my firearm approximately 2 months ago and have used them equally during range excursions during that time. Here's a fuller review..

Originally I was enthusiastic about the mean arms brand of loaders for several reasons. First was price. On thier website they had a package deal for 3 loaders which was less expensive than 3 BFD loaders, making them more appealing. I held neither of them before purchasing either, so my impression wasn't initially swayed by construction. Honestly, I ordered loaders from my ffl under the belief that they too were MA brand, which would bring my total loaders to 5, again believing all 5 would be MA, eliminating any need to train using 2 different types ( important to me for continuity in a home defense situation). Only after receiving my firearm did I know I would have both brands. So, after a few months here is my opinion...

MeanArms loaders are of a lesser construction, having a weaker frame while can allow flex in it while loading. Additionally, due to its open frame design it has a moderate chance of rounds falling through the frame if not fully pushed upward before filling them. Also, the materials used seem to have less fiberglass reinforcement making the potential for wear much more significant ( more on that in a moment). The detents that signify the rounds that are within the loaders aren't as pronounced either compared to the BFD brand. And although they do offer a lifetime replacement guarantee, the feel just isn't there in a substantial way. Additionally, after what would be presumably 100 rounds put through a particular loader 1 has since failed. The particular loader that failed was the 2.0 version ( the newest) where it no longer throws the bolt forward upon removal. The 1.0 versions still function (marginally) as they should. Lastly, the operating is , to me at least, less intuitive using the thumb hole to force the rounds into the magazine.

Now the Bear Flag Defense brand. This one is a fully enclosed loader. This itself is better than the MA as it's less likely to have rounds fall out. The construction is much beefier than the MA, and seems to have a greater amount of glass fiber reinforcement. The detents that signify the rounds upon loading are much more significant and noticeable and , for me at least, unintentionally cause you to be more forceful while loading which leads to more successful reloading. The design is intuitive by not having thumb operation instead using your full grip on the outside of the loader to force the rounds down. Additionally, although I haven't had to do this yet, the BFD brand can easily be disassembled to remove the follower to work on if neccessary.

Usage of both observations-
These are my experiences only and may not represent your outcomes. I have had many more failures to load with the MeanArms brand than the BFD, and with worse consequences with failures. With the BFD I can say that the most common failure is that to fully fill the magazine leaving 1 or 2 rounds in the loader itself. This I believe is more operator error that anything related to the loader itself. It has never caused a jam to the firearm itself and due to its design is less likely to have this happen. On the other end of the spectrum is the MA. Since the original version of the MA throws the bolt forward upon removal, if any round fails to be captured by the magazine it immediately causes a jam. Sometimes it has been as simple as 1 locked round between the magazine and the chamber at an angle ( a fairly simple fix) to as catastrophic as a triple feed with 2 rounds at an angle with what looked like the tips of 2 rounds in the chamber and a 3rd laying behind those 2 ( required disassembly of the takedown pins to repair....yikes). That loader has been " retired " from service permanently and shows significant amounts of wear with again only approximately 100 rounds run through it.

Opinion- if cost is a factor, the MA should suffice, albeit potentially not long. It does boast the lifetime warranty, but potentially having to ship items back and forth isn't appealing. I absolutely wouldn't trust it in an emergency by any means. What do I keep loaded bedside for any potential home defense encounters? Bear flag..... all the way. ....And will be replacing all the MA brand ones to BF. Sturdy, reliable, consistent is what's needed, and BFD delivers better in all arenas.

 

[Chevusa]

Nice write up. You get what you pay for.

The place I got my Bushmaster from told me the Mean Arms loaders were shit. So I got BF10 loaders. They do sell them in a discounted 3 pack on their website too btw.

I bought one of the MA loaders just to see for myself and I can confirm they are shit compared to the BF.

Finally the biggest thing is to use the loaders with a Lancer magazine. It makes a huge difference. Since making that switch, I have had all 10 rounds load in 100% of the time.

 

[Jchrisls]

Nice write up. You get what you pay for.

The place I got my Bushmaster from told me the Mean Arms loaders were shit. So I got BF10 loaders. They do sell them in a discounted 3 pack on their website too btw.

I bought one of the MA loaders just to see for myself and I can confirm they are shit compared to the BF.

Finally the biggest thing is to use the loaders with a Lancer magazine. It makes a huge difference. Since making that switch, I have had all 10 rounds load in 100% of the time.

Thanks for the complete and I agree, I wouldn't trust my life with the MA, I potential would with the BF.

 

[Fightingfish]

So some longer term personal observations and experience with both Mean arms and Bear Flag defense loaders.

I have owned both brands of loaders since obtaining my firearm approximately 2 months ago and have used them equally during range excursions during that time. Here's a fuller review..

Originally I was enthusiastic about the mean arms brand of loaders for several reasons. First was price. On thier website they had a package deal for 3 loaders which was less expensive than 3 BFD loaders, making them more appealing. I held neither of them before purchasing either, so my impression wasn't initially swayed by construction. Honestly, I ordered loaders from my ffl under the belief that they too were MA brand, which would bring my total loaders to 5, again believing all 5 would be MA, eliminating any need to train using 2 different types ( important to me for continuity in a home defense situation). Only after receiving my firearm did I know I would have both brands. So, after a few months here is my opinion...

MeanArms loaders are of a lesser construction, having a weaker frame while can allow flex in it while loading. Additionally, due to its open frame design it has a moderate chance of rounds falling through the frame if not fully pushed upward before filling them. Also, the materials used seem to have less fiberglass reinforcement making the potential for wear much more significant ( more on that in a moment). The detents that signify the rounds that are within the loaders aren't as pronounced either compared to the BFD brand. And although they do offer a lifetime replacement guarantee, the feel just isn't there in a substantial way. Additionally, after what would be presumably 100 rounds put through a particular loader 1 has since failed. The particular loader that failed was the 2.0 version ( the newest) where it no longer throws the bolt forward upon removal. The 1.0 versions still function (marginally) as they should. Lastly, the operating is , to me at least, less intuitive using the thumb hole to force the rounds into the magazine.

Now the Bear Flag Defense brand. This one is a fully enclosed loader. This itself is better than the MA as it's less likely to have rounds fall out. The construction is much beefier than the MA, and seems to have a greater amount of glass fiber reinforcement. The detents that signify the rounds upon loading are much more significant and noticeable and , for me at least, unintentionally cause you to be more forceful while loading which leads to more successful reloading. The design is intuitive by not having thumb operation instead using your full grip on the outside of the loader to force the rounds down. Additionally, although I haven't had to do this yet, the BFD brand can easily be disassembled to remove the follower to work on if neccessary.

Usage of both observations-
These are my experiences only and may not represent your outcomes. I have had many more failures to load with the MeanArms brand than the BFD, and with worse consequences with failures. With the BFD I can say that the most common failure is that to fully fill the magazine leaving 1 or 2 rounds in the loader itself. This I believe is more operator error that anything related to the loader itself. It has never caused a jam to the firearm itself and due to its design is less likely to have this happen. On the other end of the spectrum is the MA. Since the original version of the MA throws the bolt forward upon removal, if any round fails to be captured by the magazine it immediately causes a jam. Sometimes it has been as simple as 1 locked round between the magazine and the chamber at an angle ( a fairly simple fix) to as catastrophic as a triple feed with 2 rounds at an angle with what looked like the tips of 2 rounds in the chamber and a 3rd laying behind those 2 ( required disassembly of the takedown pins to repair....yikes). That loader has been " retired " from service permanently and shows significant amounts of wear with again only approximately 100 rounds run through it.

Opinion- if cost is a factor, the MA should suffice, albeit potentially not long. It does boast the lifetime warranty, but potentially having to ship items back and forth isn't appealing. I absolutely wouldn't trust it in an emergency by any means. What do I keep loaded bedside for any potential home defense encounters? Bear flag..... all the way. ....And will be replacing all the MA brand ones to BF. Sturdy, reliable, consistent is what's needed, and BFD delivers better in all arenas.

Great firsthand information here. Thank you for taking the time to post this!
I’m considering a fixed mag for my next build, and this is valuable stuff.

 

[Jchrisls]

Glad I could help fish. Figured there was little long term-unbiased-not sponsored reviews or content to help inform so just put in my 2 cents. Just remember, your milage can and will vary