FL cops burst into wrong apartment killing a US airmen for defending his home

[spat]

“Officers drew their weapons, and they and Wright told Higdon to put the gun down, but the man refused, the lawsuit said.”


“Shooting broke out, then the Wrights ran into their bedroom as officers and the family member exchanged gunfire, Vickie Wright”
The Sevier County District Attorney’s Office investigated the shooting and found the deputy believed Higdon was coming through the door, not David Wright, WATE reported.


Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article288488795.html#storylink=cpy

Not a good example to cite and it is using info from one side of the issue . It was a gunfight.
Not the same thing . In fact , it hurts your argument that the airman should have shot it out . He might have gotten other people killed like this guy did with his brother in law.

The article isn't about that guy. Did you read it ?

It was about the guys brother in law who was essentially a hostage and was doing exactly what he was told by one officer, after the gunman was killed, when another officer straight up executed him.

 

[spat]

Pizza delivery guy is being lumped in with other guys who go out to strangers homes and deliver pizza . The law enforcement statistic is lumping patrol officers with people who never make arrests but happen to have the power to do so on paper , and never have . Big difference. It’s like comparing the physical dangers of the Marines to Space force and saying they are the same .

Statistically, traffic stops are the most dangerous things cops do.

So, your door kickers are *safer* than the guys writing speeding tickets.

If you were really concerned about "officer safety" you would stop pulling vehicles over on the side of the road and just start mailing the tickets to the owners with speed cameras.

 

[GOPerfect]

708,001 full time active police officers in the US, 2023. 60 officers were feloniously killed that same year. 60 is far too many, but, many other professions have a high death count. (0.00846965956%)

 

[GOPerfect]

And the stats for pizza delivery guys lump the ones in the suburbs in with the guys delivering to the hood too.

Your argument is unconvincing.

He is lumping pay clerks and food service into fighting Military personnel

 

[spat]

708,001 full time active police officers in the US, 2023. 60 officers were feloniously killed that same year. 60 is far too many, but, many other professions have a high death count. (0.00846965956%)

60 *is* far too many.

But, it also not enough to make it unusually dangerous.

 

[GOPerfect]

60 *is* far too many.

But, it also not enough to make it unusually dangerous.

I get upset each and every time I see the face of a fallen officer. Hell, I do not want to see anyone die due to their profession.

 

[GOPerfect]

60 *is* far too many.

But, it also not enough to make it unusually dangerous.

Nationwide, a total of 5,486 fatal work injuries were recorded in 2022, for highway workers. Guys and gals just fixing our roads.

 

[RedBreast21]

That video is crazy. I see the comments supporting the officer and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Terrible situation for sure.

Watching the video, when the door opened I saw the gun right away. But not in a threatening manner. So the officer drawing and shooting was a surprise to me.

Now I understand police operating in anti gun states currently over react when a gun is in any type of possession of someone other than LE. Forget a gun, a knife at 30 feet will get you shot here. It's how they have been groomed by their departments and the citizens as well.

But this is Florida. Everyone is armed. Especially at home. If you don't take that into account and you're knocking on a door of someone who isn't expecting a visit and might be armed, then be abundantly clear about the knock. Stand off to the side sure, but continue to knock and announcing until a response is heard and clear communication established.

I was shocked the officer deduced that his life was in immediate danger. Which under law meant movement to present the firearm. That's required even in NY. Have we forgotten that? Suicide by cop always results in the presentation of a weapon or threatening movement by the victim.

In this case the officer out of caution, could have drawn and center his body on the door jam to control the situation. He saw the gun like you and I did. He had the same amount of time to process the visual information.

Now, I am going to get in deep here. Most of you, I hope, train with your weapon. You train to present weapon and pick up the front sight, dot or perfect sight alignment...yada yada yada. All BS really when you're eyes go big, adrenaline dump and you're behind the curve. If you are in real fear of your life you aren't taking your eyes off the threat. It's actually impossible to do so. Its a body alarm response you cannot over come. Like a reflex test. In that moment you are trying to make up time, fight or flight. You are at a great disadvantage when their weapon is out and yours holstered. Your senses are so high that everything is taken in around you. You will see the perceived threat and their actions while you try to catch up with your own draw.

The officer, while drawing his weapon noticed no movement made by the homeowner? Or he saw threatening movement? Did he make any movement to cover?

I can't speak to what he processed through visual cues, but he either shot 6 times intentionally or was scared shitless and he has no recollection of the incident. Scared people hyperventilate and that adrenaline dump has side effects. His actions after the fact were intentional and methodical.

So IMHO, at the sight of a weapon he decided to kill. That's what I saw. I didn't hear or see fear in his actions before, during or after.

We have to be honest that being a LEO isn't for everyone. If you have that much fear of encountering a firearm in the hands of a citizen in their own home, that can't be trained out of you. The job isn't for you.

It will be interesting how this moves forward. I heard it is in fact the same department as the ACORN incident. That officer was scared out of his mind. No doubt. I can excuse that actually. The job isn't for him. But this shooting I can't. Simply because my mind didn't go to the thought of drawing a weapon since I did not see a threat. I watched it once and once only as to not taint my perception.

Now, this is my SOP should I get a knock on the door from someone claiming to be LEO that is possible standing off to the side and can't wont be visually identified. Call 911 and tell them there is someone pounding on the door saying they're the police but I can't confirm. The more LE on the scene the better it is for me.

 

[Truebeliever]

The article isn't about that guy. Did you read it ?

It was about the guys brother in law who was essentially a hostage and was doing exactly what he was told by one officer, after the gunman was killed, when another officer straight up executed him.

Yes I did . And it was in a gun fight . The other officer thought it was the shooter coming back out with the shotgun again. It’s different circumstances then what we are talking about in this thread . The brother in law did what when the police came — got out the shotgun and started shooting and put his family at risk . Kind of followed the advice some hinted to do huh.
Let’s discuss that angle more .
Brianna Taylor who was a courier for drug dealing ex boyfriend ( confirmed by their recorded prison conversations) . The police did get a no knock warrant but because the other team got the drug dealer boyfriend and crew they decided to knock. They knocked long and loud . Long and loud enough to wake up the neighbors and have them come outside to watch . The boyfriend admitted it woke him up. No answer so they take the door . The boyfriend “followed “ the advice someone on this forum said and shoots the cop who entered. The other cops returned fire and she was hit . She was not in bed as the media lied.

 

[Truebeliever]

That video is crazy. I see the comments supporting the officer and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Terrible situation for sure.

Watching the video, when the door opened I saw the gun right away. But not in a threatening manner. So the officer drawing and shooting was a surprise to me.

Now I understand police operating in anti gun states currently over react when a gun is in any type of possession of someone other than LE. Forget a gun, a knife at 30 feet will get you shot here. It's how they have been groomed by their departments and the citizens as well.

But this is Florida. Everyone is armed. Especially at home. If you don't take that into account and you're knocking on a door of someone who isn't expecting a visit and might be armed, then be abundantly clear about the knock. Stand off to the side sure, but continue to knock and announcing until a response is heard and clear communication established.

I was shocked the officer deduced that his life was in immediate danger. Which under law meant movement to present the firearm. That's required even in NY. Have we forgotten that? Suicide by cop always results in the presentation of a weapon or threatening movement by the victim.

In this case the officer out of caution, could have drawn and center his body on the door jam to control the situation. He saw the gun like you and I did. He had the same amount of time to process the visual information.

Now, I am going to get in deep here. Most of you, I hope, train with your weapon. You train to present weapon and pick up the front sight, dot or perfect sight alignment...yada yada yada. All BS really when you're eyes go big, adrenaline dump and you're behind the curve. If you are in real fear of your life you aren't taking your eyes off the threat. It's actually impossible to do so. Its a body alarm response you cannot over come. Like a reflex test. In that moment you are trying to make up time, fight or flight. You are at a great disadvantage when their weapon is out and yours holstered. Your senses are so high that everything is taking in. You will see the perceived threat and their actions while you try to catch up with your own draw.

The officer, while drawing his weapon noticed no movement made by the homeowner? Or he saw threatening movement? Did he make any movement to cover?

I can't speak to what he processed through visual cues, but he either shot 6 times intentionally or was scared shitless and he has no recolection of the incident. Scared people hyperventalate that adreneline dump has side effects. His actions after the fact were intentional and methodical.

So IMHO, at the sight of a weapon he decided to kill. That's what I saw. I didn't hear or see fear in his actions before, during or after.

We have to be honest that being a LEO isn't for everyone. If you have that much fear of encountering a firearm in the hands of a citizen in their own home, that can't be trained out of you. The job isn't for you.

It will be interesting how this moves forward. I heard it is in fact the same department as the ACORN incident. That officer was scared out of his mind. No doubt. I can excuse that actually. The job isn't for him. But this shooting I can't. Simply because my mind didn't go to the thought of drawing a weapon since I did not see a threat. I watched it once and once only as to not taint my perception.

Now, this is my SOP should I get a knock on the door from someone claiming to be LEO that is possible standing off to the side and can't wont be visually identified. Call 911 and tell them there is someone pounding on the door saying they're the police but I can't confirm. The more LE on the scene the better it is for me.

You didn’t see the threat . Okay . You would be lucky or dead if you didn’t see the threat. You would not know his background nor could you react fast enough if and when he made a decision to use it . He might be still making that decision when the officer made him move from the door .

you are the only one so far who realistically stared how to prevent this from happening in the future. Yes, the Mas video said it too

 

[VietnamEraVet]

That video is crazy. I see the comments supporting the officer and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Terrible situation for sure.

Watching the video, when the door opened I saw the gun right away. But not in a threatening manner. So the officer drawing and shooting was a surprise to me.

Now I understand police operating in anti gun states currently over react when a gun is in any type of possession of someone other than LE. Forget a gun, a knife at 30 feet will get you shot here. It's how they have been groomed by their departments and the citizens as well.

But this is Florida. Everyone is armed. Especially at home. If you don't take that into account and you're knocking on a door of someone who isn't expecting a visit and might be armed, then be abundantly clear about the knock. Stand off to the side sure, but continue to knock and announcing until a response is heard and clear communication established.

I was shocked the officer deduced that his life was in immediate danger. Which under law meant movement to present the firearm. That's required even in NY. Have we forgotten that? Suicide by cop always results in the presentation of a weapon or threatening movement by the victim.

In this case the officer out of caution, could have drawn and center his body on the door jam to control the situation. He saw the gun like you and I did. He had the same amount of time to process the visual information.

Now, I am going to get in deep here. Most of you, I hope, train with your weapon. You train to present weapon and pick up the front sight, dot or perfect sight alignment...yada yada yada. All BS really when you're eyes go big, adrenaline dump and you're behind the curve. If you are in real fear of your life you aren't taking your eyes off the threat. It's actually impossible to do so. Its a body alarm response you cannot over come. Like a reflex test. In that moment you are trying to make up time, fight or flight. You are at a great disadvantage when their weapon is out and yours holstered. Your senses are so high that everything is taking in. You will see the perceived threat and their actions while you try to catch up with your own draw.

The officer, while drawing his weapon noticed no movement made by the homeowner? Or he saw threatening movement? Did he make any movement to cover?

I can't speak to what he processed through visual cues, but he either shot 6 times intentionally or was scared shitless and he has no recolection of the incident. Scared people hyperventalate that adreneline dump has side effects. His actions after the fact were intentional and methodical.

So IMHO, at the sight of a weapon he decided to kill. That's what I saw. I didn't hear or see fear in his actions before, during or after.

We have to be honest that being a LEO isn't for everyone. If you have that much fear of encountering a firearm in the hands of a citizen in their own home, that can't be trained out of you. The job isn't for you.

It will be interesting how this moves forward. I heard it is in fact the same department as the ACORN incident. That officer was scared out of his mind. No doubt. I can excuse that actually. The job isn't for him. But this shooting I can't. Simply because my mind didn't go to the thought of drawing a weapon since I did not see a threat. I watched it once and once only as to not taint my perception.

Now, this is my SOP should I get a knock on the door from someone claiming to be LEO that is possible standing off to the side and can't wont be visually identified. Call 911 and tell them there is someone pounding on the door saying they're the police but I can't confirm. The more LE on the scene the better it is for me.

I have noted before that from my watching the video multiple times,- that it appears that the door had no peephole, and there appears to be no doorbell camera either. So, seems that he opened the door blind as far as knowing if it was LE outside, or not. I am thinking that likely factored into him answering the door with his firearm in hand, yet down at his side.

 

[spat]

He is lumping pay clerks and food service into fighting Military personnel

Yes I did . And it was in a gun fight . The other officer thought it was the shooter coming back out with the shotgun again. It’s different circumstances then what we are talking about in this thread . The brother in law did what when the police came — got out the shotgun and started shooting and put his family at risk . Kind of followed the advice some hinted to do huh.
Let’s discuss that angle more .
Brianna Taylor who was a courier for drug dealing ex boyfriend ( confirmed by their recorded prison conversations) . The police did get a no knock warrant but because the other team got the drug dealer boyfriend and crew they decided to knock. They knocked long and loud . Long and loud enough to wake up the neighbors and have them come outside to watch . The boyfriend admitted it woke him up. No answer so they take the door . The boyfriend “followed “ the advice someone on this forum said and shoots the cop who entered. The other cops returned fire and she was hit . She was not in bed as the media lied.

Go ahead, keep telling yourself this is OK.

See how the public reacts.

More and more people every day change their mind about supporting police.

When I was a kid, the general consensus of the public was that you could trust cops and should look to them for help in an emergency.

Today, the prevailing mood is shifting to "try to avoid any contact, because you're putting your life at risk".

What do you suppose happens when that second sentiment becomes the predominant one ?

There is a *major* crisis of confidence in police in this country. The attitude you expeess is largely responsible.

You may think you can just tell people to go fuck themselves over their concerns, but you will eventually find out there are dire consequences to that loss of confidence.

It's a very similar problem to the one we have for election integrity. Half the country doesn't trust them, and the other half says "well, your concerns are invalid, so we're just going to ignore them".

In reality, it doesn't matter if the election is secure, what matters is that most people trust the results.

Widely trusted results from an actually rigged election are actually less dangerous than untrusted results from a fair one.

 

[RedBreast21]

You didn’t see the threat . Okay . You would be lucky or dead if you didn’t see the threat. You would not know his background nor could you react fast enough if and when he made a decision to use it . He might be still making that decision when the officer made him move from the door .

you are the only one so far who realistically stared how to prevent this from happening in the future. Yes, the Mas video said it too

Read my post again. I saw the gun. But not in a threatening or menacing manner. Any threat is in the hands and not in the eyes.

I watched it once.

If I'm going to arrive at an accurate opinion, I am not going to watch it multiple times, splitting hundredths of a second.

I would expect a gun in upstate NY and definitely in FL.

Again, it doesn't meet the threat for deadly force under article 35 here in NY. You being the visitor, they the home owner....nope. You need to read that. In the context of that entire interaction from the patrol car to the door, there was not a sense of urgency. It was routine.

IMHO, this officer is in the wrong line of work.

We all have an opinion and that's fine. You simple believe that if the gun is in the hand, in the context (context matters) of this situation you would fire. Don't cold knock on my door. lol Thanks for the heads up lol

In this situation had it been me as that officer, clearly we both would be alive today.

 

[Glock_USA]

Don't answer the door with a gun in your hand. It would be just as inappropriate if it were the pizza guy that was knocking. If you perceive a threat so great that you need to have a gun drawn ... don't open the door. That's step 1 in this situation. Is there more? Yes. But let's start with step 1.

 

[FP1201]

He is lumping pay clerks and food service into fighting Military personnel

well for many, that WAS their previous profession...one they should have stayed in.

 

[Saltwater60]

Did the officer know what was going on before the kid came up with the gun? The cop told him to get it right ?
How did he carry it ? Not the same way I bet .
Completely different circumstances.

He called on the phone and said he’d need the gun as part of the investigation. Kid walked out the door with it as the cop pulled up. Gun was in his hand at his waist. I see no difference here. This kid could have shot him and he knew he was in trouble for illegal hunting.

 

[1341]

Again, it doesn't meet the threat for deadly force under article 35 here in NY.

Then there's those pesky words "reasonably believe" dropped in all over Article 35.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

So for anyone who supports the cop and thinks the cop did right....

Do you also think citizens who open carry pistols and long guns would be justified being shot on sight in any sort of a public encounter?

 

[1341]

I have noted before that from my watching the video multiple times,- that it appears that the door had no peephole, and there appears to be no doorbell camera either. So, seems that he opened the door blind as far as knowing if it was LE outside, or not. I am thinking that likely factored into him answering the door with his firearm in hand, yet down at his side.

Definitely no ring style camera, maybe there's a peephole built into the doorknocker, but maybe not. However, you can definitely hear him say "police" along with some other unintelligible words. Be interesting if they can forensically recover them from the BWC

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Definitely no ring style camera, maybe there's a peephole built into the doorknocker, but maybe not. However, you can definitely hear him say "police" along with some other unintelligible words. Be interesting if they can forensically recover them from the BWC

Yes he did say police. Whether there was a peep hole or not the officer didn't stand in front of the door to be visually identified if there was he kept going side to side trying to stay out of view.
And however we've all heard many stories about criminals pretending or impersonating police to get someone to open their door so they can do a home invasion.

 

[1341]

Yes he did say police. Whether there was a peep hole or not the officer didn't stand in front of the door to be visually identified if there was he kept going side to side trying to stay out of view.
And however we've all heard many stories about criminals pretending or impersonating police to get someone to open their door so they can do a home invasion.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say if there was a peephole, you definitely would have been able to see that it was someone in a uniform. That's based on every peephole I've seen in house or hotel, just because that's the way they are designed.
Not defending or blaming anyone, but if you really think you are going to be a victim of a police impersonation home invasion you call 911, don't open the door, and you could ask questions of the alleged impersonator through that closed door. Probably wouldn't be a issue if you also let them know your armed.

 

[GOPerfect]

Don't answer the door with a gun in your hand. It would be just as inappropriate if it were the pizza guy that was knocking. If you perceive a threat so great that you need to have a gun drawn ... don't open the door. That's step 1 in this situation. Is there more? Yes. But let's start with step 1.

Odd take....

 

[GOPerfect]

Yes he did say police. Whether there was a peep hole or not the officer didn't stand in front of the door to be visually identified if there was he kept going side to side trying to stay out of view.
And however we've all heard many stories about criminals pretending or impersonating police to get someone to open their door so they can do a home invasion.

I never stood in front of doors that I knocked on when I was working. Never

 

[Robin]

Cop acquitted in beanbag gun death of 95-year-old vet

Elderly man, holding a knife, died after officer shot him with five beanbags at close range

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Truebeliever]

Go ahead, keep telling yourself this is OK.

See how the public reacts.

More and more people every day change their mind about supporting police.

When I was a kid, the general consensus of the public was that you could trust cops and should look to them for help in an emergency.

Today, the prevailing mood is shifting to "try to avoid any contact, because you're putting your life at risk".

What do you suppose happens when that second sentiment becomes the predominant one ?

There is a *major* crisis of confidence in police in this country. The attitude you expeess is largely responsible.

You may think you can just tell people to go fuck themselves over their concerns, but you will eventually find out there are dire consequences to that loss of confidence.

It's a very similar problem to the one we have for election integrity. Half the country doesn't trust them, and the other half says "well, your concerns are invalid, so we're just going to ignore them".

In reality, it doesn't matter if the election is secure, what matters is that most people trust the results.

Widely trusted results from an actually rigged election are actually less dangerous than untrusted results from a fair one.

That’s not what is being told to you . You have concerns . Your answer to the problem is just die police .
Loss of confidence is mainly because of the lies the media tells and people believe like the Mike Brown case, Brianna Taylor case, Eric Garner case, Freddie Grey case , and even in the George Floyd case.
“hands up, don’t shoot “ was a lie
Taylor was shot in her bed, that the police didn’t knock was a lie. The boyfriend shot a cop before they returned fire.
Freddie Grey case was a lie from beginning to end
George Floyd died because of the drugs in his system.
Eric Garner was alive and talking for more than 10 minutes after the so called choke hold . EMS was there while he was still conscious.
Most of the public still know this

It’s the same media that says Kyle Rittenhouse was not self defense and that he shot three BLM protesters .
A large number of the public don’t realize everyone he shot was white .

Even the story you linked is told by the lawyer suing the police who would make the cops appear in the worse light with half truths and claims .

Your answer to the problem that cops should just die isn’t going to work.

 

[Truebeliever]

Read my post again. I saw the gun. But not in a threatening or menacing manner. Any threat is in the hands and not in the eyes.

I watched it once.

If I'm going to arrive at an accurate opinion, I am not going to watch it multiple times, splitting hundredths of a second.

I would expect a gun in upstate NY and definitely in FL.

Again, it doesn't meet the threat for deadly force under article 35 here in NY. You being the visitor, they the home owner....nope. You need to read that. In the context of that entire interaction from the patrol car to the door, there was not a sense of urgency. It was routine.

IMHO, this officer is in the wrong line of work.

We all have an opinion and that's fine. You simple believe that if the gun is in the hand, in the context (context matters) of this situation you would fire. Don't cold knock on my door. lol Thanks for the heads up lol

In this situation had it been me as that officer, clearly we both would be alive today.

You are wrong. It is imminent threat and officer would be justified. Go look at similar incidents around the country where gun ownership is common. The officer is justified there too.
If you come to the door like that , and know it’s the police there, you can get yourself shot . Not a bright idea.
Someone posted the Mas Ayood video .Gi watch it . He worked all over the country on this issue .

 

[Truebeliever]

He called on the phone and said he’d need the gun as part of the investigation. Kid walked out the door with it as the cop pulled up. Gun was in his hand at his waist. I see no difference here. This kid could have shot him and he knew he was in trouble for illegal hunting.

Then that cop was just plain stupid and took the risk thinking he could just read people — go look at the FBI profile of the cops who are shot and killed in the line of duty.
One characteristic is that they thought they could read the person and thought they had no ill intent .
Mistakes like this:
Or this:

 

[spat]

That’s not what is being told to you . You have concerns . Your answer to the problem is just die police .
Loss of confidence is mainly because of the lies the media tells and people believe like the Mike Brown case, Brianna Taylor case, Eric Garner case, Freddie Grey case , and even in the George Floyd case.
“hands up, don’t shoot “ was a lie
Taylor was shot in her bed, that the police didn’t knock was a lie. The boyfriend shot a cop before they returned fire.
Freddie Grey case was a lie from beginning to end
George Floyd died because of the drugs in his system.
Eric Garner was alive and talking for more than 10 minutes after the so called choke hold . EMS was there while he was still conscious.
Most of the public still know this

It’s the same media that says Kyle Rittenhouse was not self defense and that he shot three BLM protesters .
A large number of the public don’t realize everyone he shot was white .

Even the story you linked is told by the lawyer suing the police who would make the cops appear in the worse light with half truths and claims .

Your answer to the problem that cops should just die isn’t going to work.

When you have to build a straw man like "you say cops should just die" you are effectively admitting your argument is garbage.

Also, yes, the media lies and hypes things.

That doesn't change the loss of confidence problem. You can't just say "here's why people don't trust us anymore" and pretend that's going to fix the issue.

 

[spat]

You are wrong. It is imminent threat and officer would be justified. Go look at similar incidents around the country where gun ownership is common. The officer is justified there too.
If you come to the door like that , and know it’s the police there, you can get yourself shot . Not a bright idea.
Someone posted the Mas Ayood video .Gi watch it . He worked all over the country on this issue .

So, you are saying that if a cop knocks on your door with his gun drawn, can you just assume he is an imminent threat and blow him away right through the door then ?

 

[Truebeliever]

When you have to build a straw man like "you say cops should just die" you are effectively admitting your argument is garbage.

Also, yes, the media lies and hypes things.

That doesn't change the loss of confidence problem. You can't just say "here's why people don't trust us anymore" and pretend that's going to fix the issue.

No, your solution was . Wait until fired upon — that means cops will die .
That’s not a straw man argument.
Mas Ayood gave an answer to the problem in his video.
Loss of confidence in police is not the police officers . It’s the media especially social media like YouTube and TikTok misrepresenting what police officers can do and not do.
Cops shoot people less than they ever did in the o’l days of the 1950’s ,60s and 70s. It’s not even close