drowhawk
.44 mag
Why didn't I know about these before? Wish I had bought one before they transformed into fully automatic 300 round-per-nanosecond death machines.
Forced reset triggers now machine guns, per BATFE
- Thread starter drowhawk
- Start date
Cavalry
.338 Win Mag
Did anyone not see this coming? You should be happy that you didnt buy one, I am sure the ATF has those customer lists and will be collectinng them without compensation shortly.
spat
.950 JDJ
That's what cash over the counter is for...
Some things you do not want to mail order.
"Just make the receipt out to Mr Benjamin Franklin..."
Shocker........
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
So now a firearm can identify as a machine gun? I thought guys using the ladies room was insane.
Cavalry
.338 Win Mag
While I completely agree that it is cash and carry purchase if there ever was one, why bother? If you think its going to end up a MG (which everyone did) just either drill a third hole or make an DIAS. Its not going to be more illegal in the end.
Here is the response from rare beed.
Rare Breed Triggers Response Letter to the ATF Cease and Desist
Rare Breed Triggers Response Letter to the ATF Cease and Desist
drowhawk
.44 mag
If something doesn't meet the ATF's OWN definition of a machine gun, how can we possibly "see this coming?" Am I supposed to "see it coming" when my electric toothbrush is declared a machine gun too? I'm sorry- I just don't agree with the premise of: "Well it did something naughty with the gun that makes it more scary, therefore you should have known better." Fuck that. Laws aren't supposed to be arbitrary and difficult to understand. "You should have seen this coming," is an appropriate response to a person who drives drunk and is arrested for DUI; not somebody complying with the law and then all of a sudden the interpretation of said law changes.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Way more respectful than I would have been. Mine would have had 2 words.
C3D
.338 Win Mag
They have always been illegal in New York
fnfalguy
.308 Win
I hope they don’t keep any puppies in the shop that they are fond of.
drowhawk
.44 mag
How?
§ 265.00 Definitions.
26. "Rapid-fire modification device" means any bump stock, trigger
crank, binary trigger system, burst trigger system, or any other device
that is designed to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic
firearm, rifle or shotgun.
§ 265.01-c Criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification device.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification
device when he or she knowingly possesses any rapid-fire modification
device.
Criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification device is a class A
misdemeanor.
26. "Rapid-fire modification device" means any bump stock, trigger
crank, binary trigger system, burst trigger system, or any other device
that is designed to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic
firearm, rifle or shotgun.
§ 265.01-c Criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification device.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification
device when he or she knowingly possesses any rapid-fire modification
device.
Criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification device is a class A
misdemeanor.
drowhawk
.44 mag
This device does not modify the rate of fire.
decreasing lock time = increasing the cyclic rate of fire.
spat
.950 JDJ
Virtually everything modifies the rate of fire if you're an overzealous prosecutor.
"that after market trigger is so that he can pull it quicker increasing the rate of fire..."
"Those aftermarket sights allow him to reacquire the target faster after a shot, increasing the rate of fire..."
a prosecutor would have a hard time with sights but anything that Mechanically changes they cyclic rate of fire such as decreasing the mass of the hammer, decreasing the buffer weight, decreasing the spring resistance weight, forcing a trigger reset, they may be able to do just because of the vagueness of the law.
spat
.950 JDJ
The thing is they don't care if they can win.
They can cost you a fortune defending yourself.
When you're choice is "plead guilty to this lesser BS charge, or spend 6 figures to beat the wrap", what are you going to do ?
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
This is the problem. When a right isn't a right de facto, then do you even have the right? It raises a lot of questions.
But then again, I don't want to say people are entitled to anything money wise either.
I think maybe the answer is a self correcting problem. If prosecutors are over-zealous, and, in the court of public opinion, oppressive, then people should use all legal means to show their displeasure such as not doing business with those who associate with them, etc. Assuming nothing entailed in doing so is illegal, of course. (Afaik, there isn't anything barring a person who dislikes a politician or official from avoiding business with their associates.) That's the only thing I can think of here.
drowhawk
.44 mag
I see your point but i dont agree. Where do you draw the line? Im sure one could train to shoot equally as fast with a conventional trigger. Would i risk owning one myself? No way. But i also dont think its a machine gun.
ProgSpear
.338 Win Mag
I always suspected Jerry Miculek could be classified as a “machine gun”. Now it’s confirmed.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
lets see .... i take a 1 inch dia black iron piece of pipe 2 foot long , drill a hole here and there .. label them safe , semi , and just a center punch mark for the third auto hole pin .... its a machine gun ..
ATF better stop the sale of black pipe ..
ATF better stop the sale of black pipe ..
C3D
.338 Win Mag
New York has always banned “any device that simulates a machine gun“. This language was used to declare bump stocks illegal long before the federal ban. The language can also be easily applied against things like reset triggers.
Prove my firearm didn't come that way.
Come on man! You know you are in NY and are guilty until proven innocent. Especially if it has anything to do with guns.
Just because it came that way wouldn’t make it safe. Case in point: ARs don’t come from the factory with fixed magazines do they?
ok, so NY has defined what a "machine gun" is, correct? Specific and detailed examples on what constitutes a "machine gun" vs. any other kind of gun?
So they defined what the "accepted" rate of fire is as a baseline to determine when a cyclic rate exceeds that amount? and that baseline is determined scientifically and not by an arbitrary "this feels ok" statement, right?
FUNY - you can't just go using "feelings" to infringe my Rights.
Uhhhmm you haven’t been paying attention have you. They redefined assault weapons, gender and sexual assault under Andy’s watch all those terms are based on feelings.
C3D
.338 Win Mag
NYS has been doing that for over a century.