Good Brand For 5.56 Ammo

[Podmonkey]

Pod,
I mean the M4 style "service" barrel as a whole is not the smartest choice.
I agree a AR is intended as a "duty" carbine and such a weapon is optimized for reliability, ruggedness and let me explain why the M4
is not the best choice for that type of platform and, IMHO, it should have never existed in the first place.

This is why...

- The AR was designed originally as a 20" carbine and with the M16A2 modifications it came too short to be the most efficient.
- They also created a slant cut on the barrel that leaves the minor diameter of the barrel too thin and forces the barrel to be that
way. The ONLY reason you have these weird cuts and position, it is because they needed the space to accommodate the M203
grenade launcher so they made that stupid decision instead of redesigning the entire launcher and or bracket that would benefit
the actual carbine. Civilians do not need this BS.
- Something also inherited from the original AR is the 1/2" threads that leaved a compromised minor diameter and prone to
premature crown swelling and therefore premature loss in accuracy.
- The twist rate of 7 will work but it is already too much and one could even argue if an 8 twist might be used by most shooters for
the ammunition people more likely shoot. The additional twist only compounds to the list of things that are hardly the wisest
choice. The only reason for a civilian AR15 shooter to have a 1:7 is if they intend to shoot tracer ammo or certain 90gr bullets
or solids that are too long for the 5.56 chamber, AR magazine and will need single feed in the first place anyway.

The typical sierra 75,77 and 80gr SMK, TMK, hornday, speer, etc ... work fine with 8 twist and are popular choices for national match
competitions. you mentioned some might not stabilize so please let us know what those are precisely because they are not the
popular bullet choices and people reading might get the wrong impression that they need a faster twist.

The discussion about length, construction, speed and terminal effect is very relevant as for example, up to 75gr many bullets will
stabilize great with a 9 twist but for example a 75gr VLD will not and a 70gr TTSX from barnes will also have problems.

Also bulk light varmint bullets at 7 twist sometimes come apart due tot he torque forces produced by the massive speeds
and excessive twist so jacket separation is a concern. It has happened to me. So lower the charge and you might be fine
but then, defeats the purpose of the original hypervelocity varmint round and the 223 is not too far behind the 22-250
for similar purposes.

So there is no one single good reason to choose "M4 style" barrels for AR15 civilian use. Aside of the 7 twist discussion there
are 16 and 18" barrels that are cut with mid weight "scout" profiles that address all those shortcomings of the M4 style barrels
and that are available at comparable cost or for a bit more but also come nitrocarburized that has proven to be a superior
standard vs. chrome in terms of durability and accuracy.

Again, I am not saying that a M4 tacticool style barrel would not work but what I am saying is that civicilian shooters are
blessed with superior options to the military "mil-spec" standard and not just for barrels but bolts, triggers and other equipment.

For example ARP has been making the 16, 18 and 20 barrels and also bolts with the heavy duty philosophy in mind but better
than the service ones.

5.56/223 Wylde barrels

5.56 and 223 Wylde barrels and high performance parts.

www.ar15performance.com

There are a few other good makers and then a lot el cheapo build kits junk too.

These features, accuracy and durability has been tested here and in previous NY and other forums through the years and there is
extensive info and feedback the problem is that the forum's search feaure is not that great at finding things.

I don't hunt so I don't have any need for the lightweight high velocity screamers, not to mention any hunting ammo is too expensive to plink with and not as accurate as match ammo for serious target shooting so I have always completely ignored hunting specific ammunition, to me it doesn't exist, it simply doesn't factor into my firearms decision making. What I need is a barrel that can safely shoot vast quantities of cheap, high pressure surplus ammunition and a bore that can withstand smoking hot temps without incurring excess wear. I wouldn't personally spec a Gov't profile barrel (which is a misleading nomenclature btw, it doesn't actually have the various cuts for the M203 grenade launche, that is specifically the provenance of the M4 or SOCOM profiles which are distinct) it's what came with the DD and it still come in at a light 6.2lbs and it does have less thermal shift than my lighter profiles gun. The DD has to get literally smoking hot as in smoke actually coming off the barrel, for the groups to open significantly, that's about 60 rounds of uninterrupted rapid fire, not mag dumping mind you but cadenced, aimed rapid fire. I like fighting guns as opposed to hunting or target guns.

 

[meketrefe]

I don't hunt so I don't have any need for the lightweight high velocity screamers, not to mention any hunting ammo is too expensive to plink with and not as accurate as match ammo for serious target shooting so I have always completely ignored hunting specific ammunition, to me it doesn't exist, it simply doesn't factor into my firearms decision making. What I need is a barrel that can safely shoot vast quantities of cheap, high pressure surplus ammunition and a bore that can withstand smoking hot temps without incurring excess wear. I wouldn't personally spec a Gov't profile barrel (which is a misleading nomenclature btw, it doesn't actually have the various cuts for the M203 grenade launche, that is specifically the provenance of the M4 or SOCOM profiles which are distinct) it's what came with the DD and it still come in at a light 6.2lbs and it does have less thermal shift than my lighter profiles gun. The DD has to get literally smoking hot as in smoke actually coming off the barrel, for the groups to open significantly, that's about 60 rounds of uninterrupted rapid fire, not mag dumping mind you but cadenced, aimed rapid fire. I like fighting guns as opposed to hunting or target guns.

The good thing is that there are many great barrels options that are 16 and 18" with a mid-length (and rifle length) porting that run so much better with any type of ammo service, surplus, etc.. and do not have the stupid M4 profile but a simple step down from the shank and the wider area around the chamber and then for the gas block at .750. OD. They also have a bit more meat ahead of the chamber and a proper OD ahead of the has block that makes them stronger and less prone to failure in extreme situations. I know nobody should be getting a barrel so hot to the point is burned but also we do know the M4 do not last as long (accuracy life) if one goes through many extreme heating/cooling cycles. A different profile alone helps with that at no additional cost.

The 3/4 threads on the muzzle is the cherry on top of the cake if one goes that way.
We are talking about minute weight so the weight saving claim is not a valid argument to stick to the stupid M4 tacticool profile.

I would put the profile ahead of the twist and if they gave us a 7 twist with that profile I would take it over the M4 style but we can
all agree the 8 twist is more than plenty for anything any shooter wants to shoot out of an AR15 barrel.

Again many barrels will work and cover basic needs. This is more a discussion about what are other choices, including several better choices than
the "mil-spec" while keeping budgets friendly for an all purpose type carbine. Just by staying away form the carbine porting and using a proper porting the bolt group runs cooler and smoother with any type of ammo military or mild civilian 223.

To be clear, all these differences do not require any additional parts and it is just a better way to manufacture the same parts so we are not talking about 2-3 times more expensive stuff like the national match or 3 gun sometimes overpriced stuff that might be better (or worse) and it is out of the scope of this discussion.


This is an example of an option that is much better than any M4 style purchase for an all purpose type carbine....

• • Chamber: 223 Wylde
  • Profile: lightweight-taper 750-.700/.750 GB/.700
  • Fluted: No
  • Barrel Length: 16"
  • Twist Rate: 1:7.7 3R
  • Gas System: -mid
  • Diameter at Gas Port: .750"
  • Muzzle Thread Pitch: 1/2-28
  • Material: 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel
  • Finish: Melonite
  • Process: Button Rifled-3R Hybrid
  • Barrel Lining: Melonite
  • Barrel Extension: M4
  • Assembly: Stripped
  • Weight: 1lb 12oz
• 
  
  
  From time to time they have those with 5/8 threads that is ideal.
  
  
  

5.56 9310 alloy enhanced bolt

Enhanced strength 9310 alloy bolt, one of the most durable mil spec bolts on the market. Similar to JP Ent bolts. Mil spec parkerized rust resistant treatment(dark gray)аа Flat rate shipping $3.75


So again, there is no one single good reason to go with a "M4 tacticool style" carbine other than it was a free gift or for some other exception or special reason.

 

[meketrefe]

On this Video Jim Sullivan explains some of the well known shortcomings of the M16A2/M4's crappy design.
Yet people will contine to buy M4 style barrels, lighter carriers, heavier springs and adjustable gas blocks for their carbine ported tacticool ARs.

 

[Podmonkey]

On this Video Jim Sullivan explains some of the well known shortcomings of the M16A2/M4's crappy design.
Yet people will contine to buy M4 style barrels, lighter carriers, heavier springs and adjustable gas blocks for their carbine ported tacticool ARs.

Chillax dude, why does this hit such a nerve with you? Carbine length gas systems and Gov't profile barrels are not crappy. They aren't the norm these days anyway. Insuspect that most AR buyers spec midlength gas systems and light profile barrels.
But there isn't anything wrong with the carbine gas length other than it shooting slightly harsher, reliability is good, the issues the military had with the early spec M4s were only an issue in full auto and were mitigated witg M4 feed ramps and/H1 buffers. As for the Gov't profile barrel, while I would prefer Daniel Defense's own light profile barrel (more like a medium light taper profile similar to Faxon's Gunner or Ballistic Advantage's Hanson profiles) I challenge you or anyone else to find fault with the balance or handling of my Gov't profiled DDM4V7, or its accuracy for that matter, taking into account it is a duty spec carbine and not a target rilfe.