Gun maker’s exploding rifle leaves trail of injured hunters

Discussion in 'Firearms in the News' started by livingston, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. meketrefe

    meketrefe .308 Win

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    Not just MLs but rifles, shotguns and pistols.

    But what replicas are we talking about? Because I think certain firearms are not tied to the same standards
    in terms of proof testing. They come with huge warnings like low pressure loads only.
    Pretty much like replicas from anywhere in the world and classic relics that will only allow low pressure black powder cartriges.

    But again from that to say Spanish guns suck ... totally inaccurate.

    sersiously what replicas are we talking about. I have no clue.
     
  2. Robin

    Robin .308 Win

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    I'm not sure what he is referring to Mek. I think ML's sold under the "Lyman" name and "Traditions" name are both Spanish made.
     
  3. meketrefe

    meketrefe .308 Win

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    I think those are bottom barrel deals rated for below 10,000psi and come with warnings including printed on the barrel.
    Actually many people buy them as decorations and if you want a true gun you don't buy that.

    This has nothing to do with the real firearms.
     
  4. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    Ok, regarding Spanish Arms, some of you seem to have done your homework.

    And even if they SUCKED 20 years ago, they could be fine now.

    I'm sticking with UBERTI, PIETTA, PEDERSOLI - but no, I AM NO EXPERT.

    I feel safe with the brands I've mentioned.

    Perhaps the Spanish have cleaned up their act. I hope so.
     
  5. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    Yes.

    I would certainly avoid Traditions and Lyman.
     
  6. Robin

    Robin .308 Win

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    Well, I would avoid them to, but many, many guys started their ML journey with those guns and they are very good shooters.
    UBERTI, PIETTA, PEDERSOLI are very good guns from what I have seen, very good fit and finish. they also proof test their barrels, an Italian legal requirement as with the Spanish legal requirement for their barrels. The difference being the quality of manufacture and assembly that surrounds those proof tested barrels. As far as historically accurate flintlocks, the Pedersoli's fail miserably, but I would own, shoot, and hunt with one if I wasn't making them, that is how I view their quality.
    Robin
     
    CaseHardened likes this.
  7. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    The only thing I dislike about Pedersoli is their cost.
     
  8. meketrefe

    meketrefe .308 Win

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    I am not expert neither but I now this much...

    If you are talking about the replica market that is a different thing.
    The Italians are more popular and have a larger assortment.
    In spain there is little incentive for replicas because the margin
    is so low and the liabilities so high. A decent air rifle cost twice as
    much as some of those replicas.
    The general consensus is that they are meant for exhibition, re-enhancements
    and some models entry level hunting with very mild loads.
    They provide full proofing but there is no standard mandated by
    the goverment like other firearms that is actually higher in many
    places in Europe than the USA because they have to provide test
    proofing certificate from the official testing bench.
    Even Uberti and Pietta show cracked receivers and other failures and
    most times is not because of the gun but because people exceed
    the recommended pressures.

    I bet all those failures are people that went over the limit rated
    for the gun. Remember the Remington triggers? Remington had
    to pretty much seal the triggers so nobody could ever work on them.

    Bottom line, that is not representative of the firearms business.

    IMO if one wants quality better spend the money and get a real firearm
    like a TC or a bergara from Spain.


    They partner with shilen and bought the best machines to get the barrels to where they
    are today...



     
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  9. Robin

    Robin .308 Win

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    Well, yeah, there is that too.
    Robin
     
  10. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    A cracked receiver is a disappointment - sure.

    It may ruin my day, but not MY LIFE.

    I wonder if even in those cases it was the BRASS framed examples - which are never recommended for any significant use.
     
  11. meketrefe

    meketrefe .308 Win

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    Again I am not an expert but what I read from others enthusiasts is to stick
    to the mildest possible loads. Like those italians you mention have replicas of old 1800 colt army revolvers where one
    can get cylinders to shoot cowboy brass. Well, the key is to load them very low like if one was dealing wiht an old
    relic because if you go hot like some modern firearms can go then you will ruin them in no time, or worse.

    I don't really get the whole muzzle loading hobby. The single shot even Alin/Johnson/trapdoor conversion is
    one thing but the muzzle loading is bound to have some obvious risks and not easy way to have access to
    the breach. I can understand it, appreciated it for historical purposes but not practical these days for
    sporting use.

    In terms of the Spanish firearms even an old beat up CETME or Mauser will chug along w/o failures
    until the end of times.

    Take a look at Grulla or Arrieta shotguns from Spain.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Robin

    Robin .308 Win

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    Once you leave the realm of flintlocks my knowledge diminishes rapidly. What is a receiver?
    Robin
     
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  13. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    Lower
     
  14. meketrefe

    meketrefe .308 Win

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    The receiver is the block where one assembles the barrel and provides the base for the operating mechanism
    like the breach, the trigger assembly, optics, etc...
    So whether is a break open, trap door, rotating or classic autoloader these block is needed normally in one
    piece of steel but it can be modular in two or more pieces and also different materials like polymer, aluminum,etc...
    The most critical part is the breach that has to provide secure locking of the round sometimes to sustain very
    hard pressures and then opening and closing to reload fresh rounds. Many times you have a bolt like in the case
    of repeaters.
     
  15. Robin

    Robin .308 Win

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    Oooooooh, I thought it might have something to do with the NFL. Non Flintlock Longarms.
    Robin
     
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  16. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    The thing about Flintlocks, is, most people think the Flint sparks. It does not.

    It wears and chips, but all the sparks are from steel on the Frizzen. The steel frets and eventually wears out.

    That's why I bought a little device that uses a regular Zippo Flint and a revolving Steel Wheel, that is clamped in the Jaws, replacing the Flint.

    Then you actually cover the Frizzen with leather to protect it, and give the Steel Wheel traction.

    The end result is a very reliable spark, and a firearm that receives less unsightly wear.

    I'd post a pic, but I'm too lazy to dig it out, and apparently the guy that was making them has closed up shop (must have run out of Government Contracts).

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Robin

    Robin .308 Win

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    Well that is about as big a sacrilege as there is, turn in your Man Card! You could shoot that a life time and never have to re-sole it. That is not unsightly, just good honest wear, and expected.
    Robin
     
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  18. CaseHardened

    CaseHardened .223 Rem

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    Honestly, I'm such a weiner I would not for a moment even consider FIRING many of mine.

    Instead I take pictures, then pack them away in sealed plastic bags with desiccant.

    When I feel like checking them out, I just open Widows Media Player !

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  19. meketrefe

    meketrefe .308 Win

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    I prefer my flintlock system inside a primer. :D
     
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