Gun maker’s exploding rifle leaves trail of injured hunters

[meketrefe]

The Spanish proof test their ML barrels, they are usually excellent shooters, the style of their replicas is just close enough to capture the imagination of the unlearned in this field, but generally they make good solid ML's.
Robin

Not just MLs but rifles, shotguns and pistols.

But what replicas are we talking about? Because I think certain firearms are not tied to the same standards
in terms of proof testing. They come with huge warnings like low pressure loads only.
Pretty much like replicas from anywhere in the world and classic relics that will only allow low pressure black powder cartriges.

But again from that to say Spanish guns suck ... totally inaccurate.

sersiously what replicas are we talking about. I have no clue.

 

[Robin]

I'm not sure what he is referring to Mek. I think ML's sold under the "Lyman" name and "Traditions" name are both Spanish made.

 

[meketrefe]

I'm not sure what he is referring to Mek. I think ML's sold under the "Lyman" name and "Traditions" name are both Spanish made.

I think those are bottom barrel deals rated for below 10,000psi and come with warnings including printed on the barrel.
Actually many people buy them as decorations and if you want a true gun you don't buy that.

This has nothing to do with the real firearms.

 

[CaseHardened]

Ok, regarding Spanish Arms, some of you seem to have done your homework.

And even if they SUCKED 20 years ago, they could be fine now.

I'm sticking with UBERTI, PIETTA, PEDERSOLI - but no, I AM NO EXPERT.

I feel safe with the brands I've mentioned.

Perhaps the Spanish have cleaned up their act. I hope so.

 

[CaseHardened]

I think those are bottom barrel deals rated for below 10,000psi and come with warnings including printed on the barrel.
Actually many people buy them as decorations and if you want a true gun you don't buy that.

This has nothing to do with the real firearms.

Yes.

I would certainly avoid Traditions and Lyman.

 

[Robin]

Well, I would avoid them to, but many, many guys started their ML journey with those guns and they are very good shooters.
UBERTI, PIETTA, PEDERSOLI are very good guns from what I have seen, very good fit and finish. they also proof test their barrels, an Italian legal requirement as with the Spanish legal requirement for their barrels. The difference being the quality of manufacture and assembly that surrounds those proof tested barrels. As far as historically accurate flintlocks, the Pedersoli's fail miserably, but I would own, shoot, and hunt with one if I wasn't making them, that is how I view their quality.
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

Well, I would avoid them to, but many, many guys started their ML journey with those guns and they are very good shooters.
UBERTI, PIETTA, PEDERSOLI are very good guns from what I have seen, very good fit and finish. they also proof test their barrels, an Italian legal requirement as with the Spanish legal requirement for their barrels. The difference being the quality of manufacture and assembly that surrounds those proof tested barrels. As far as historically accurate flintlocks, the Pedersoli's fail miserably, but I would own, shoot, and hunt with one if I wasn't making them, that is how I view their quality.
Robin

The only thing I dislike about Pedersoli is their cost.

 

[meketrefe]

Ok, regarding Spanish Arms, some of you seem to have done your homework.

And even if they SUCKED 20 years ago, they could be fine now.

I'm sticking with UBERTI, PIETTA, PEDERSOLI - but no, I AM NO EXPERT.

I feel safe with the brands I've mentioned.

Perhaps the Spanish have cleaned up their act. I hope so.

I am not expert neither but I now this much...

If you are talking about the replica market that is a different thing.
The Italians are more popular and have a larger assortment.
In spain there is little incentive for replicas because the margin
is so low and the liabilities so high. A decent air rifle cost twice as
much as some of those replicas.
The general consensus is that they are meant for exhibition, re-enhancements
and some models entry level hunting with very mild loads.
They provide full proofing but there is no standard mandated by
the goverment like other firearms that is actually higher in many
places in Europe than the USA because they have to provide test
proofing certificate from the official testing bench.
Even Uberti and Pietta show cracked receivers and other failures and
most times is not because of the gun but because people exceed
the recommended pressures.

I bet all those failures are people that went over the limit rated
for the gun. Remember the Remington triggers? Remington had
to pretty much seal the triggers so nobody could ever work on them.

Bottom line, that is not representative of the firearms business.

IMO if one wants quality better spend the money and get a real firearm
like a TC or a bergara from Spain.


They partner with shilen and bought the best machines to get the barrels to where they
are today...

 

[Robin]

Well, yeah, there is that too.
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

I am not expert neither but I now this much...

If you are talking about the replica market that is a different thing.
The Italians are more popular and have a larger assortment.
In spain there is little incentive for replicas because the margin
is so low and the liabilities so high. A decent air rifle cost twice as
much as some of those replicas.
The general consensus is that they are meant for exhibition, re-enhancements
and some models entry level hunting with very mild loads.
They provide full proofing but there is no standard mandated by
the goverment like other firearms that is actually higher in many
places in Europe than the USA because they have to provide test
proofing certificate from the official testing bench.
Even Uberti and Pietta show cracked receivers and other failures and
most times is not because of the gun but because people exceed
the recommended pressures.

I bet all those failures are people that went over the limit rated
for the gun. Remember the Remington triggers? Remington had
to pretty much seal the triggers so nobody could ever work on them.

Bottom line, that is not representative of the firearms business.

IMO if one wants quality better spend the money and get a real firearm
like a TC or a bergara from Spain.


They partner with shilen and bought the best machines to get the barrels to where they
are today...

A cracked receiver is a disappointment - sure.

It may ruin my day, but not MY LIFE.

I wonder if even in those cases it was the BRASS framed examples - which are never recommended for any significant use.

 

[meketrefe]

A cracked receiver is a disappointment - sure.

It may ruin my day, but not MY LIFE.

I wonder if even in those cases it was the BRASS framed examples - which are never recommended for any significant use.

Again I am not an expert but what I read from others enthusiasts is to stick
to the mildest possible loads. Like those italians you mention have replicas of old 1800 colt army revolvers where one
can get cylinders to shoot cowboy brass. Well, the key is to load them very low like if one was dealing wiht an old
relic because if you go hot like some modern firearms can go then you will ruin them in no time, or worse.

I don't really get the whole muzzle loading hobby. The single shot even Alin/Johnson/trapdoor conversion is
one thing but the muzzle loading is bound to have some obvious risks and not easy way to have access to
the breach. I can understand it, appreciated it for historical purposes but not practical these days for
sporting use.

In terms of the Spanish firearms even an old beat up CETME or Mauser will chug along w/o failures
until the end of times.

Take a look at Grulla or Arrieta shotguns from Spain.

 

[Robin]

Once you leave the realm of flintlocks my knowledge diminishes rapidly. What is a receiver?
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

Once you leave the realm of flintlocks my knowledge diminishes rapidly. What is a receiver?
Robin

Lower

 

[meketrefe]

Once you leave the realm of flintlocks my knowledge diminishes rapidly. What is a receiver?
Robin

The receiver is the block where one assembles the barrel and provides the base for the operating mechanism
like the breach, the trigger assembly, optics, etc...
So whether is a break open, trap door, rotating or classic autoloader these block is needed normally in one
piece of steel but it can be modular in two or more pieces and also different materials like polymer, aluminum,etc...
The most critical part is the breach that has to provide secure locking of the round sometimes to sustain very
hard pressures and then opening and closing to reload fresh rounds. Many times you have a bolt like in the case
of repeaters.

 

[Robin]

Oooooooh, I thought it might have something to do with the NFL. Non Flintlock Longarms.
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

Oooooooh, I thought it might have something to do with the NFL. Non Flintlock Longarms.
Robin

The thing about Flintlocks, is, most people think the Flint sparks. It does not.

It wears and chips, but all the sparks are from steel on the Frizzen. The steel frets and eventually wears out.

That's why I bought a little device that uses a regular Zippo Flint and a revolving Steel Wheel, that is clamped in the Jaws, replacing the Flint.

Then you actually cover the Frizzen with leather to protect it, and give the Steel Wheel traction.

The end result is a very reliable spark, and a firearm that receives less unsightly wear.

I'd post a pic, but I'm too lazy to dig it out, and apparently the guy that was making them has closed up shop (must have run out of Government Contracts).

 

[Robin]

Well that is about as big a sacrilege as there is, turn in your Man Card! You could shoot that a life time and never have to re-sole it. That is not unsightly, just good honest wear, and expected.
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

Well that is about as big a sacrilege as there is, turn in your Man Card! You could shoot that a life time and never have to re-sole it. That is not unsightly, just good honest wear, and expected.
Robin

Honestly, I'm such a weiner I would not for a moment even consider FIRING many of mine.

Instead I take pictures, then pack them away in sealed plastic bags with desiccant.

When I feel like checking them out, I just open Widows Media Player !

 

[meketrefe]

I prefer my flintlock system inside a primer.