Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I’m so glad I don’t get pulled over.
Gun Permit Insufficient Cause for Car Search
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Easily. Do you think if you found a magazine to a handgun on a person, that he probably has a gun? It’s it more probable than not that he has a gun. And add he is from out of state and does not have an NYS permit.
We aren’t talking about at an empty holster protest but a regular stop. It’s more probable. That is the search standard for a car stop search or to get a warrant.
Probable cause doesn’t mean it is an absolute. No gun found. No arrest.
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Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
I'm glad i haven't been pulled over ..
a quick inventory on what was on me today driving around town and will most likely be on me tomorrow
2 Shotguns , 4 rifles , 3 ammo cans , big ass hunting knife , folding pocket knife .. 2 hammers , large crow bar ..
2 rounds of 270 win in my right pants pocket ..
and the most dangerous item .. a large cup of McDonald's Coffee .. that shit is fkin hot ..
a quick inventory on what was on me today driving around town and will most likely be on me tomorrow
2 Shotguns , 4 rifles , 3 ammo cans , big ass hunting knife , folding pocket knife .. 2 hammers , large crow bar ..
2 rounds of 270 win in my right pants pocket ..
and the most dangerous item .. a large cup of McDonald's Coffee .. that shit is fkin hot ..
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
@Truebeliever so if I get pulled over in the city close to the Bronx Westchester border on the Bronx side and the nypd cop sees my upstate carry license when I go fishing in my wallet for my driver's license and let's say he also see on my front seat a Glock hat, a guns and ammo magazine (the paper type with the articles and pictures), and maybe a boresnake, does he have probable cause to search my vehicle for a gun?
LOL ..Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
He does get to ask the question, “do you have a gun”.
After that, it depends on what comes next. Your behavior and responses would determine a lot.
How you answered it is BIg. And where.
On a highway and you said “I’m going to Long Island “is different than driving in the city, off the highway.
Off highways, maybe if you said you took a wrong turn and it’s a block off the border, you might not have a problem.
Does the cop believe you? Are you in the heart of the Bronx? Too many factors.
Here is an example of a magazine being enough to search the vehicle.Its New Jersey but the definition of reasonable suspicion and probable cause are similar. The main difference is what a police officer can do with each level of suspicion.
Trio of 'vigilantes' arrested outside Holland Tunnel with loaded guns, 'America' gun clip and 2,000 rounds of ammo - NY Daily News
Here is the part of that case closer to Your example
Judge expected to rule on evidence in Holland Tunnel gun cache seizure
Here is the judge’s decision:
Gun cache in SUV can be used against Holland Tunnel trio, judge rules
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
NY Cops can't ask motorists if they have weapons.
Cops Can't Just Ask Motorists About Guns: NY Court
Cops Can't Just Ask Motorists About Guns: NY Court
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Your seranio , you tell me.-lol
Where I worked for my last 15 years I wouldn’t be pulling you over in NYC anyway-lol
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
u pulled me over .. its on you ..
you .. do you have a gun .,.
me .. why did you pull me over ..
come on play the game ..
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Again, you first have to tell me what the seranio is . Why did I pull your car over. What caught my attention of all the other cars with violations?
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
im just a traveler .. and you pulled me over .. what the seranio is is on you .. not me ..
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
No, if you want to play the game and get an honest response.
What did I see before I pulled you over. A traveler isn’t good enough. I wouldn’t stop you then.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
ok ,..l lets say the front plate was missing . ..
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Where in the city was it? Were you a jerk during the interaction ? Nervous?
A lot of factors
A lot of factors
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
u pulled me over .. and gave the what the seranio is .. plate missing ..
play the game .. lets do it ..
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
u pulled me over for plate missing ..
you ask do i have a gun ..
me .. why did you pull me over ?
game on ..
your next question ?..
you ask do i have a gun ..
me .. why did you pull me over ?
game on ..
your next question ?..
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Okay, play the game
First I would get your license and proof of insurance .
You ask what did you do to get pulled over instead getting your license and proof of insurance.
I ask again and tell you I will explain it after I have your license and insurance.
If you still insist on controlling the car stop without giving your license and proof of insurance before I explain why you were pulled over, I would ask again for those documents and explain that a summons is lieu of arrest and I would prefer to resolve this interaction without resorting to that.
Now you hand over the license and your non NYC gun permit.
Or you don’t. You know know the consequences.
Nice game-lol.
But let’s keep going.
I ask why were you leaving the gay club at this hour.( you didn’t tell me where you wanted this seranio to start or what I observed for it so I’m left to improvise it -lol)
Did you have anything to drink?
You answer no.
I ask “are there any weapons in the gun, knives, clubs, guns, nuclear weapons anthrax”.
Your reaction tells me a lot or nothing .
Your reaction isn’t to laugh or look puzzled by the question of anthrax. You look worried.
Now I ask what kind of gun do you own? You say hi-point or something.
I go “ where in the car is it?”
You go. “Ah, hmuhmm , I didn’t bring it, that’s the ticket”
I tell you I know you are lying.
You keep lying .
I search you while you are still in the car and your lungeable area and recover the gun. You go to jail.
OR
I would have you step out of the car.
You refuse . I point out the NYS court of appeals says I can make you get out of your car and treat this as a terry stop.
Find the gun on you and arrest you
OR
You could just give me the license and proof of insurance in the beginning, I see the permit, I ask where are you going?. You say I’m on my way to Long Island.
Since we are on a highway , I say good luck. I might even ask for you to tell me if you like Glocks vs another gun and say a little too loud. “I am glad you left them at home”.
Give you a warning about the lic plate and you go on your way.
Again, you have no idea how many times cops “don’t look to hard “ when it’s a “good guy” who doesn’t act like a[jerk]
Or many many other ways this could go down. Too many variables
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
LMAO ..
you can't play the game ..
you have no right to know where i'm going to or coming from ..
and you did not ask the next question ..
just a page full of BS .. on what if's ..
you can't play the game ..
you have no right to know where i'm going to or coming from ..
and you did not ask the next question ..
just a page full of BS .. on what if's ..
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Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
first u asked if i had a gun ...
that's on the database .. if i got insurance or not ..
keep making it up .. keep fishing .. ..
that's on the database .. if i got insurance or not ..
keep making it up .. keep fishing .. ..
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
It’s on a database- oh, my gawd.
Guess what. You are required to have proof of insurance. Unless that has changed recently.
Your answer, it’s on a database. Definitely a ticket. Nyspin is down as often as it’s up. And the lack of proof of insurance is an easy one.
Give that answer .Thanks . fine. Act like a jerk and you will not get decretion when you need it.
I might not have a computer in the car. It’s NYC in this seranio. Many of the cars don’t have working computers. Do you think I would tell a potential criminal” hey, I don’t have a computer to run you name”
Or I might have to run it the old fashion way, over the radio.
So on this seranio, my first question is “where is the gun”? . Clearly you don’t want a realistic answer to it. Again you and this judge don’t know cop reactions as well as you think. I have talked for sometime before I mentioned a gun to real dangerous people whom I knew had a gun( not just suspected). And wanted /suspected for a major crime.
Go look at how the cop in the Philando Castile shooting. He approached the car if was a normal traffic stop before he knew about the gun on his lap. He thought he was a suspect in an armed robbery remember.
You just want to hear what ever you want. That’s fine.
When you are done typing at me about what you think is wrong and how you would show that cop up that stopped your car, it won’t be reality. You might not know why you are being pulled over. You might not know your limits in the situation and cross them. Then you get arrested for some BS you might have even talked your way out of ( meaning no ticket) . But instead , you talked yourself into handcuffs and then the gun is found incidental to that arrest.
Evidence surpressed? Maybe. Lawsuit maybe? Win lawsuit , maybe?
Lose the gun, absolutely. It won’t be returned. Loss of carry permit, strong possiblity..
Again, you might type something against me, cops etc when I tell you what could happen. Or be angry when I post the vast powers an officer has and some disagree with. Or that the average citizen does not have close to those powers when in certain seranios.
Just a license plate leads to other things. Tim McVey , the OK city bomber was in custody on a license plate stop that lead to an illegal gun possession charge. He was sitting in a cell while the FBI was scowling the stress and airwaves looking for him.
Terrorist with bombs were found on normal traffic stops. As well as serial killers.
But that doesn’t matter. Let’s go after the cop who caught the person. Let’s go after the person who is telling you how you would get caught if you decided to break that law and pissed off that cop enough to act on it.
Why don’t you ask why I would want your license and insurance card first before asking any questions. Or why I wouldn’t tell you why you were being pulled over until after I got those documents.
Try to learn something rather try to show me up in some way. I’m not the one who would be in legal jeopardy in this situation if this seranio were true. I have made gun arrests that ended in conviction ( no permit holders) from terry and car stops. And knowing those small laws like village laws (or in NYC seranio, the administration codes). Like I said , a lot of variables in a real life situation.
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nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Yes Will, but this guy gave the cop his Grand County Colorado concealed handgun permit ( And both NY and Colorado you have no duty to inform LE ) so this guy open that can of worms not the cop (probable cause established)
Read more: New York Court Order Concludes Gun Permit Insufficient Cause for Car Search
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The search resulted after Rose, who had recently moved to New York, “inadvertently” handed over “a valid Grand County Colorado concealed handgun permit” along with “a valid Colorado driver's license [and] a valid New York identification card” while looking for his vehicle registration after being pulled over for a missing front license plate.
How about this for all of these fucking scenarios...
Cop pulls over driver for missing front plate. Cop gets REQUIRED documents from driver, cop goes to his car, comes back and issues a ticket for the V&T violation.
No questions about guns, ammo, knives or anthrax!
Cop stops being a douche bag and issues a ticket only for the violation noted. Cop goes about his day looking for more V&T violations!
Cop stops breaking his oath, actually respects the freaken Constitution.
Cop pulls over driver for missing front plate. Cop gets REQUIRED documents from driver, cop goes to his car, comes back and issues a ticket for the V&T violation.
No questions about guns, ammo, knives or anthrax!
Cop stops being a douche bag and issues a ticket only for the violation noted. Cop goes about his day looking for more V&T violations!
Cop stops breaking his oath, actually respects the freaken Constitution.
Okay, cop looks at the out of sate permit, hands it back and says, "I don't need this",
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Yes maybe so, But he is not in the wrong for not is he?
Sure, to an extent, I have always prided myself in Personal Responsibility. He did error, that is a fact. I do not believe that the error was great enough to get jammed up the way he did though.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Are you talking about the driver or the cop? I was talking about the cop.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Yes, all of those can happen. And I said what COULD happen.
The judge could have said, “ 2nd admendment, bye” too.
I’m not explaining what should happen but what can legally happen.
People wanted body cameras remember? The judge is making decisions based on what is going on in the mind of the officer without understanding how police officers work.
This case is not binding, thank god, because if it were itvwould just be about guns. It would be any stop where the subject was lying.
To a driver of a car:
“You say you were allowed to borrow the car but You don’t know the name of the owner of the car, or how to contact them”
With an Eddie Murrphy smile, “that’s right officer”.
The officer could not check to see if the column was cracked or see if the driver had a key to the car with this judge’s reasoning.
The judge could have said, “ 2nd admendment, bye” too.
I’m not explaining what should happen but what can legally happen.
People wanted body cameras remember? The judge is making decisions based on what is going on in the mind of the officer without understanding how police officers work.
This case is not binding, thank god, because if it were itvwould just be about guns. It would be any stop where the subject was lying.
To a driver of a car:
“You say you were allowed to borrow the car but You don’t know the name of the owner of the car, or how to contact them”
With an Eddie Murrphy smile, “that’s right officer”.
The officer could not check to see if the column was cracked or see if the driver had a key to the car with this judge’s reasoning.
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