Had two FTF malfunctions at range the other day

[cgrutt]

My BIL's guns so can't post pics. Anyway happened on two different guns. Both were RRA AR15s one configured as rifle the other pistol. Ammo was new not reloads. Commonality was mags... they were using same three standard mags in both guns. Both FTFs happened midway through mag. Both resulted in bolt becoming severely jammed... no tap rack bang to clear these... tapped charging handle against bench both times to clear malfunctions. Initially thought maybe guns needed to be oiled but it's bothering me that same malfunction happened on two different guns. Could one of the mags be causing this? Bent feed lips? Broken or weak spring? Damaged follower? I'm thinking kids put 500-600 rounds down range before problems started.

 

[kev74]

I'm guessing either ammo or lack of lube.

 

[cgrutt]

I'm guessing either ammo or lack of lube.

They did seem pretty dry. But would that cause bolt to get jammed?

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Could one of the mags be causing this? Bent feed lips? Broken or weak spring? Damaged follower? I'm thinking kids put 500-600 rounds down range before problems started.

Yes.

 

[PutnamCharlie]

Did you pull the bolt yet and check it? My buddy has a rra and he broke the cotter pin on the first outing. If all looks good then I would say what KEV said. Lube or ammo.

 

[cgrutt]

Did you pull the bolt yet and check it? My buddy has a rra and he broke the cotter pin on the first outing. If all looks good then I would say what KEV said. Lube or ammo.

Haven't ill pass along info thanks. Don't think that's it though as it happened to two different guns.

 

[PutnamCharlie]

I agree but 600 rds shouldn't get the bolt dirty enough to jam that bad.

 

[cgrutt]

I agree but 600 rds shouldn't get the bolt dirty enough to jam that bad.

Yeah it's actually half that they both got equal love lol

 

[cgrutt]

Going through the math in my head it was probably north of 1000 rounds... 6 kids 3 mags each on 2 guns plus my BIL and me. Thank goodness it was my BIL I'm sure 1000 rounds would go unnoticed lol. I was joking with him probably $1000 range trip given today's prices (we were also shooing 9mm, 12 ga and 44 mag) he just shrugged his shoulders and said he hoped the kids had fun. The 223 came out of a 40 mm ammo can... I'd never even seen those lol....

 

[kev74]

That it happened to two different guns makes me think ammo. Especially if it only happened once in each gun. I would think if it were magazine related, it would have happened more often.

Easiest thing to try would be to lube the crap out of both guns and see if it happens again. It might not fix it, but it can't hurt. After that, you're throwing parts and magazines at it unless the problem manifests its self.

A good practice is to have identifying markings on the magazines (numbers, letters, etc.) to make it easier to identify which might have a problem.

 

[cgrutt]

That it happened to two different guns makes me think ammo. Especially if it only happened once in each gun. I would think if it were magazine related, it would have happened more often.

Easiest thing to try would be to lube the crap out of both guns and see if it happens again. It might not fix it, but it can't hurt. After that, you're throwing parts and magazines at it unless the problem manifests its self.

A good practice is to have identifying markings on the magazines (numbers, letters, etc.) to make it easier to identify which might have a problem.

Yeah he said he should have marked mag... but he's retired lol...

 

[kev74]

Going through the math in my head it was probably north of 1000 rounds... 6 kids 3 mags each on 2 guns plus my BIL and me. Thank goodness it was my BIL I'm sure 1000 rounds would go unnoticed lol. I was joking with him probably $1000 range trip given today's prices (we were also shooing 9mm, 12 ga and 44 mag) he just shrugged his shoulders and said he hoped the kids had fun. The 223 came out of a 40 caliber ammo can... I'd never even seen those lol....

2 jams in 1000 rounds with 8 people shooting ( and loading their own mags) wouldn't have me concerned in the slightest. Way too many other variables to blame the guns.

 

[1075tech]

That it happened to two different guns makes me think ammo. Especially if it only happened once in each gun. I would think if it were magazine related, it would have happened more often.

Easiest thing to try would be to lube the crap out of both guns and see if it happens again. It might not fix it, but it can't hurt. After that, you're throwing parts and magazines at it unless the problem manifests its self.

A good practice is to have identifying markings on the magazines (numbers, letters, etc.) to make it easier to identify which might have a problem.

There you go @cgrutt . Tell your b-i-l he has to get more ammo and you'll be back to test them again.

 

[kev74]

Yeah he said he should have marked mag... but he's retired lol...

I don't think I've marked most of my AR mags either.

 

[cgrutt]

There you go @cgrutt . Tell your b-i-l he has to get more ammo and you'll be back to test them again.

I wanted to take a pic of his gun/ammo/reloading room but he wasn't thrilled about that. Let's just leave it at impressive. I'm sure most agencies are getting by just fine with much less lol...

As far as getting me and family down there I think that might have been his goal...

 

[cgrutt]

Sorry the 223 was in a 20 mm rocket can... like this on left




Had the kids move that one out to the truck lol...

 

[dsdmmat]

Sorry the 223 was in a 20 mm rocket can... like this on left

View attachment 136357


Had the kids move that one out to the truck lol...

I have 4, got them all on wheels too much weight for me to keep moving around.

 

[cgrutt]

BIL sent me pics of the mags (there were actually 4) we used they all look good he thinks guns needed to be cleaned and lubed...

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

I'm thinking kids put 500-600 rounds down range before problems started.

enough to burn off oil ... they need grease

 

[cgrutt]

enough to burn off oil ... they need grease

Six kids at the range they get what they get lol...

 

[whauburger]

I've seen a friend's AR have ftf from mags loaded and not "banged" against a hand to seat all rounds back in the mag. Sometimes they ride slightly forward and don't seem to feed properly.